NSdash9 made a statement that NS will be buying 50 new GE locomotives, 47 of them will be new ET44AC and 3 will be ES44AC. This makes me wonder why are they buying new power and have a bunch of stored power? Is the 2nd have power not working out?
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Maybe GE made an offer the NS could not refuse!
I don't think they will get them all at once. Probably planning ahead, get experience with them. Will they be made in Erie ??
Brandon Cole posted:NSdash9 made a statement that NS will be buying 50 new GE locomotives, 47 of them will be new ET44AC and 3 will be ES44AC. This makes me wonder why are they buying new power and have a bunch of stored power?
Maybe the units in "storage" are soon be be "written off the books" and will be sold. Railroads ALWAYS have to continue to purchase new power, because if they start skipping too many years, then when they REALLY need new power, the builders are full of orders. Scheduling, especially long term scheduling, is everything in the current locomotive business, what with only two suppliers and VERY long lead times for material & components.
Is the 2nd have power not working out?
I don't understand what this means.
Hot Water posted:Brandon Cole posted:NSdash9 made a statement that NS will be buying 50 new GE locomotives, 47 of them will be new ET44AC and 3 will be ES44AC. This makes me wonder why are they buying new power and have a bunch of stored power?
Maybe the units in "storage" are soon be be "written off the books" and will be sold. Railroads ALWAYS have to continue to purchase new power, because if they start skipping too many years, then when they REALLY need new power, the builders are full of orders. Scheduling, especially long term scheduling, is everything in the current locomotive business, what with only two suppliers and VERY long lead times for material & components.
Is the 2nd have power not working out?
I don't understand what this means.
HotWater that was supposed to say. Is the 2nd hand power not working out for NS?
Is the Dash 8.5 rebuild program working out? Not many railroads have rebuilt GE's.
The Dash 8.5 rebuild has NOT panned out and is expected to be axed all together. The rebuilding of the D940-C "Top Hats" into AC44C6M units has proven successful thus far and more are expected to begin their rebuild soon.
Dominic Mazoch posted:Is the Dash 8.5 rebuild program working out? Not many railroads have rebuilt GE's.
Why is that? It's very obvious that GE makes the best freight locomotive on the market due to sales. Is it more cost effective to just buy new and scrap the old GE locomotives? Although we see EMD's being rebuilt all the time? Doesn't add up to me.
jim pastorius posted:I don't think they will get them all at once. Probably planning ahead, get experience with them. Will they be made in Erie ??
Last year when GE announced the layoffs for over 1,500 employees in the Erie area, the local news website, (GoErie.com) mentioned that the Tier IV units were to be assembled exclusively at their new facility in Ft. Worth, TX. The diesel engines in all these locomotives were still going to be assembled in Grove City, PA. A few months ago, I also read that GE is expanding their presence at the Ft. Worth facility & was going to build a new test track.
These are just my opinion,
Thanks,
Naveen Rajan
The guy who has "Altoona Works" and seems very knowledgeable of what goes on said that the EMDs were easier to work on. I have read that a rebuilt loco costs half of a new one and has to comply with a lower emissions standard, thus cheaper to maintain. Also, there is an accounting or book keeping advantage for rebuilds. New is a capitol expense, rebuild is a maintenance expense. Maybe an accountant could give insight to this part of the equation.
A long time ago I read somewhere that the reason EMD's got rebuilt and GE's did not was something to the effect that the EMD engine blocks were not heat treated and GE's were. With the result being that anybody could rebuild or repair an EMD engine, but only GE could rebuild or repair their engines?Something like that. I have no idea if there is any validity to that.
I think GE is rebuiding ATSF Dash 9's into some sort of C4 AC's. Is that working.
big train posted:A long time ago I read somewhere that the reason EMD's got rebuilt and GE's did not was something to the effect that the EMD engine blocks were not heat treated and GE's were.
Not exactly. The GE four stroke cycle primer mover has a true cast engine "block", which is the same design concept as the engine "block" in an automobile. Only so much can be done to repair/remanufacture a cast "block". The EMD two stroke cycle prime mover as a fabricated crankcase, made up of various forgings and steel plates, all welded together. The completed crankcase is then stress relieved in huge ovens, prior to final machining. Thus the design of the EMD crankcase is easily repaired/remanufactured and then remachined.
With the result being that anybody could rebuild or repair an EMD engine, but only GE could rebuild or repair their engines?
There are many railroad major "back shops", i.e. HEAVY rebuild shops, that perform rebuild & remachining of GE cast "blocks".
Something like that. I have no idea if there is any validity to that.
Is the Norfolk Southern trading in some older diesel units? That is what some railroads did in order to buy newer diesel engines in the mid to late 1960's.
The tier 4 diesel engines have better pollution controls on them, maybe that is why Norfolk Southern is purchasing the newer engines.
Lee Fritz
Brandon Cole posted:It's very obvious that GE makes the best freight locomotive on the market due to sales.
So you let sales dictate who makes the best train, plane, automobile, etc.? You are young, and maybe you should think twice before making such wholesale statements such as that. You've never run a GE or EMD to know the difference between the two and make a decision on who makes the best locomotive.
There is a lot that goes in to sales of that magnitude besides "the best". From what I have been told, GEs are cheaper and financing plays a part plus deals on spare parts etc.
phillyreading posted:Is the Norfolk Southern trading in some older diesel units? That is what some railroads did in order to buy newer diesel engines in the mid to late 1960's.
The tier 4 diesel engines have better pollution controls on them, maybe that is why Norfolk Southern is purchasing the newer engines.
Lee Fritz
The builders haven't actively sought trade ins for many years. Few components are reusable for new units, the used market is a hassle for the builders and it's just easier for the railroads to dispose of the unwanted units. As for lower emissions, that's the LAST thing the railroads care about, reduced emissions only mean higher costs and more maintenance. They do what they MUST do to comply with the laws or obtain grants for specific units, but no more.
Published on Mar 16, 2016 by Norfolk Southern
Benny Wilkison, a utility brakeman in our Simpson Yard in Jacksonville, shares the story of the heirloom his father gave to him that he has now given to his son. One heirloom shared between 3 generations of railroaders.
Gary
According to AltoonaWorks.com the Juniata shops finished the 9th SD70 ACU rebuild but none are on the road yet. Earlier said they were tweaking the computer program but several were supposed to be testing.
Are those not the old SD90MAC's got from UP?
trainroomgary posted:. . . Benny Wilkison, a utility brakeman in our Simpson Yard in Jacksonville, shares the story of the heirloom his father gave to him that he has now given to his son . . .
When our oldest son (also an ATSF/BNSF Locomotive Engineer) married, I gave him my Illinois Bunn Special pocket watch that was with me aboard rednose F3's on the Super Chief and the Grand Canyon; aboard the 3751 during excursion trips; the day I jumped off of the 2394 moments before collision; aboard the light helper engine when an opposing UP derailed right in front of us and we ran up onto an intermodal flat car; aboard high-hood 1939 Alco-GE switchers while trying to pump up the air on passenger cars with a slow electric air compressor; aboard Alco-GE RSD5's while kicking cars at the lower end of the B-Yard (and watching the adjacent drive-in movie between kicks); in my pocket when I was suspended for 60 days; and when a woman died as I was carrying her to a safe location after a train/auto collision. The owner of the watch for the 50 years before I bought it may have been a boomer who pawned it numerous times, or maybe he was a Telegrapher in a small town in the South who worked his whole career with nary an incident at one station and was a church deacon in his spare time.
Fortunately, in the 15 years my son has had the watch, he has had smooth sailing on a safer railroad with better locomotives. And I hope it continues that way.
Big Jim posted:Brandon Cole posted:It's very obvious that GE makes the best freight locomotive on the market due to sales.
So you let sales dictate who makes the best train, plane, automobile, etc.? You are young, and maybe you should think twice before making such wholesale statements such as that. You've never run a GE or EMD to know the difference between the two and make a decision on who makes the best locomotive.
You are 100% correct I am young (23) and have never run a locomotive. I don't mean to ruffle feathers with my statement. I am sure both manufacturers are turning out fine products. You would think if one manufacturer almost doubles the sales of the other manufacturer that its product may be better?
Thanks
Brandon Cole posted:Big Jim posted:Brandon Cole posted:It's very obvious that GE makes the best freight locomotive on the market due to sales.
So you let sales dictate who makes the best train, plane, automobile, etc.? You are young, and maybe you should think twice before making such wholesale statements such as that. You've never run a GE or EMD to know the difference between the two and make a decision on who makes the best locomotive.
You are 100% correct I am young (23) and have never run a locomotive. I don't mean to ruffle feathers with my statement. I am sure both manufacturers are turning out fine products. You would think if one manufacturer almost doubles the sales of the other manufacturer that its product may be better?
Not necessarily! Cheaper maybe, but NOT necessarily "better". Also, what is overlooked by most enthusiasts is the overall cost of maintenance/overhauls over the life of the unit.
Thanks
Brandon Cole posted:Big Jim posted:Brandon Cole posted:It's very obvious that GE makes the best freight locomotive on the market due to sales.
So you let sales dictate who makes the best train, plane, automobile, etc.? You are young, and maybe you should think twice before making such wholesale statements such as that. You've never run a GE or EMD to know the difference between the two and make a decision on who makes the best locomotive.
You are 100% correct I am young (23) and have never run a locomotive. I don't mean to ruffle feathers with my statement. I am sure both manufacturers are turning out fine products. You would think if one manufacturer almost doubles the sales of the other manufacturer that its product may be better?
Thanks
Brandon, right now may not be the time because of the economy but you are a young fella and you seem to have lots of enthusiasm for trains.
If you're a hard worker that can work SAFELY around big things AND you can listen to "Old Heads" like Big Jim (and Hot Water, who worked for EMD), keep your eyes open for when the railroads begin posting and advertising to hire conductor trainees again.
You just might end up as one of Big Jim's student engineers.
Rule292 posted:Brandon Cole posted:Big Jim posted:Brandon Cole posted:It's very obvious that GE makes the best freight locomotive on the market due to sales.
So you let sales dictate who makes the best train, plane, automobile, etc.? You are young, and maybe you should think twice before making such wholesale statements such as that. You've never run a GE or EMD to know the difference between the two and make a decision on who makes the best locomotive.
You are 100% correct I am young (23) and have never run a locomotive. I don't mean to ruffle feathers with my statement. I am sure both manufacturers are turning out fine products. You would think if one manufacturer almost doubles the sales of the other manufacturer that its product may be better?
Thanks
Brandon, right now may not be the time because of the economy but you are a young fella and you seem to have lots of enthusiasm for trains.
If you're a hard worker that can work SAFELY around big things AND you can listen to "Old Heads" like Big Jim (and Hot Water, who worked for EMD), keep your eyes open for when the railroads begin posting and advertising to hire conductor trainees again.
You just might end up as one of Big Jim's student engineers.
I appreciate that, it has definitely crossed my mind. I really try to listen when the "Old Heads" talk around here, they know way more than me and I respect that. I'm here to learn and have fun.
I was only a conductor so I never got to run. The few years I was there the NS ES40DC's were brand new, as were the SD70M2's. I remember both being smooth rides, but the GE cab was a bit more quiet and comfortable.
Bill
NSBill posted:I was only a conductor so I never got to run. The few years I was there the NS ES40DC's were brand new, as were the SD70M2's. I remember both being smooth rides, but the GE cab was a bit more quiet and comfortable.
Bill
Bill,
I will agree that the GE cab is more comfortable and better laid out than the late model EMD's. But, the EMD "Whispercab" is the quietest cab I was ever in. PERIOD!!!
" Also, what is overlooked by most enthusiasts is the overall cost of maintenance/overhauls over the life of the unit."
AMEN!!!
I spent almost a year as a machinist apprentice before going out on the road. One day I changed out FIVE power assemblies on an SD45 while the man in the next stall over only changed out one GE Pwr. Assembly.
Big Jim posted:NSBill posted:I was only a conductor so I never got to run. The few years I was there the NS ES40DC's were brand new, as were the SD70M2's. I remember both being smooth rides, but the GE cab was a bit more quiet and comfortable.
Bill
Bill,
I will agree that the GE cab is more comfortable and better laid out than the late model EMD's. But, the EMD "Whispercab" is the quietest cab I was ever in. PERIOD!!!" Also, what is overlooked by most enthusiasts is the overall cost of maintenance/overhauls over the life of the unit."
AMEN!!!
I spent almost a year as a machinist apprentice before going out on the road. One day I changed out FIVE power assemblies on an SD45 while the man in the next stall over only changed out one GE Pwr. Assembly.
What models had the "Whispercab"?
NSBill posted:Big Jim posted:NSBill posted:I was only a conductor so I never got to run. The few years I was there the NS ES40DC's were brand new, as were the SD70M2's. I remember both being smooth rides, but the GE cab was a bit more quiet and comfortable.
Bill
Bill,
I will agree that the GE cab is more comfortable and better laid out than the late model EMD's. But, the EMD "Whispercab" is the quietest cab I was ever in. PERIOD!!!" Also, what is overlooked by most enthusiasts is the overall cost of maintenance/overhauls over the life of the unit."
AMEN!!!
I spent almost a year as a machinist apprentice before going out on the road. One day I changed out FIVE power assemblies on an SD45 while the man in the next stall over only changed out one GE Pwr. Assembly.What models had the "Whispercab"?
SD60I's (6700's) and SD80MAC's (7200's) for certain, not sure about the later 70-series/70ACe units. Jim might know.
I believe all of Norfolk Southern's SD70ACe locomotives have the whisper cabs.
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