Observation/Solarium cars

Basically, open rear platform observation cars and the enclosed end solarium cars were all 1920s heavy-weights. They are not usually found on main line trains these days unless they are privately owned, restored cars that meet AMTRAK and FRA requirements.

Even at that, an open end rear platform observation (or an office car), or an enclosed solarium did not necessarily have to be the very last car. I have seen a few traias with two or more privately owned rear open-platform observation cars were coupled together in a train. One even had two open rear platforms facing each other. The end platform has a gate in the middle of its railing. This allows for passage into a following car if necessary.

Solarium cars also had end doors. They could have cars following them in a train, espcrially if a diaphagm was installed for that end door. Solariums were developed as passenger train speeds increased. The open, rear platform of an observation car was not a pleasant place to be at speeds over 40 mph or so and were rarely used. Better to convert that into some paying lounge space.

The late 1930s to 1950s light-wieght observation/lounge cars with their rounded ends also had end doors. A few of these cars were later modified with larger doors and fitted with diaphragms to allow cars to follow it.

The squared-off light-weight observation/lounge car ends of the 1950's were developed in recognition that such a car may not always be at the end of a train or even face in the right direction for use. Diaphragms were put on their ends to allow following cars and to provide a safe passage between them for passengers.

While those classic, open end platform observations and solariums were fine looking cars, they all involved special handling in that they had to be physically turned around at the end of every run. This meant extra work for switching or a trip to a turntable.

If one now owns a private car with such an open platform and it's carried on AMTRAK, the owner must also pay for the extra terminal and switching charges that will accure to get the car to face in the correct direction, in addition to the other fees for its passage.

As for deadheads trying to get a free ride on the open, rear platform of that kind of car, such is doubtful these days. They are extremely few and far between!

As for AMTRAK, at first they did use a few rounded and squared end observation cars. But the costs and extra fuss in running them far out-weighed any popularity with passengers so they were dropped. They were all rather old equipment anyway. Several such cars have since become privately owned.

The major railroads now (UP, BNSF, NS, KCS and CSX - there may even be a few more) have tail-end cars where the entire car end is glassed over. There is no end door. The interior is set up theatre style, with seats facing the rear on a sloped floor. These cars are used on business trains and are not in every-day revenue service.

Ed Bommer

Paul

The Alaska Railroad runs several modern observation cars. Princess lines and another group ran there custom cars allong with the Alaska RR on a daily basis.



You can just see one behind the red speeder one the lower deck. This particular train didn't have many folks out on the decks when it pased, probably given the weather that day. I don't think it matters if it was leading or lagging in the consist. They had special obersvation deck upper and lower levels, Other days the train decks were packed with people sucking up the sites. There great.I don't recall seeing one at the end of the train. The Rr had reversing loops at both ends so handling wasn't a real issue.

I stayed outside the whole trip on the Royal Gorge's train in Colorado. I only came into eat. Of course the senery will make or break who would want to be outside discovering America's back yard.

Walkersville has the SP MeadowLark Solarian car. We actualy run it in front of the dinning car. It services as a lounge to the dinner car. We didn't want to make the folks walk down the long corridor by all the cabins, so it in the front of the train. FYI it is a very heavy car and the engineer knows it's there. Great car to have though.

Jamie

I remember a while back riding on the open platform of the business car Ohio River when it had debuted as first class on the Maine Eastern Railroad, and when the train reached about 40 mph, the vacuum that was created blew brake dust and ballast dust in our faces, especially on the straight sections. But it was so cool! The custom rail cars of the now defunct Colorado Rail Company made beautiful examples of modern lounge observation cars, Even bilevel ones with open second floor platforms on either end along with combination dome cars. They also made single level ones for rail roads with height restrictions, most of these cars run in Alaska and are quite long.Sterling Railcar has some for sale, look at the photo of the interior under Pass cars, Gman.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
Basically, open rear platform observation cars...were all 1920s heavy-weights.

Ed, open-platform obeservation cars date as far back as the 1890s.

quote:

Originally posted by smd4:

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
Basically, open rear platform observation cars...were all 1920s heavy-weights.

Ed, open-platform obeservation cars date as far back as the 1890s.

Yes, I'm aware of that. Open platforms on passenger cars go back to when the new design of longer coaches cars replaced the stage coaches mounted on railroad wheels.

However, wood-bodied cars of the 19th and early 20th century cannot be operated on US mainline rails anymore, even if they have roller bearing equipped trucks.

The all-steel,'heavy-weight' cars built during the 20th century can be, provided they meet current FRA and AMTRAK regulations and ride on roller bearings.

Union Pacific has a magnificent, open rear-platform steel office car that dates back the the 1910s in their fleet of passenger cars. Although not often used
(the choice of cars is made at the executive level), it's certified for use at any time.

Ed Bommer

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
However, wood-bodied cars of the 19th and early 20th century cannot be operated on US mainline rails anymore, even if they have roller bearing equipped trucks.

True enough.

In 1999 while we were taking the Santa Fe 3751 to RailFair in Sacramento, I was "riding" the Overland Trail lounge car on the section from Barstow to Bakersfield, however, magical forces drew me to the observation platform of the Tioga Pass, ex-CN business car (http://ridemytrain.com/photos.php) As someone has said before, if you can't ride in the cab of a steam locomotive, the obs platform is the next best place.

If I could enter a time machine, one place I would head would be the solarium lounge on Southern's "Carolina Special," with a bellowing 2-10-2 shoving all-out into that car, assisting the green 4-8-2 on the point up Saluda Grade.

Hey CSX FAN;

You mentioned that the Walkersville Southern has the SP Meadow Lark Solarium Observation Car, i worked on the car when is was on the Gettysburg Railroad many years ago, you wouldn't have an picture of the car you could share with me?

I woulsd like too see waht it looks like today, when i was doing the work on the Gettysburg property, i was getting it ready too move for an Private Owner who had purchased it from an another Private Owner, i have wondered wat happen too it?

Thanks

Jim Corbett
Cincinnati,Ohio

Two heavyweight cars still in service- without an open platform, Amtrak approved even, are Pullman's Kitchi Gammi Club and Dover Harbor. I think they are both Solarium Lounge club cars, well, certainly the Kitchi Gammi Club is.

quote:

Originally posted by smd4:

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
However, wood-bodied cars of the 19th and early 20th century cannot be operated on US mainline rails anymore, even if they have roller bearing equipped trucks.

True enough.

Actually, if you read through the relevant FRA regulations related to passenger equipment, there is no prohibition on wood-framed equipment. And there have been several Amtrak-approved operations of wood-framed passenger equipment.

Recall the Strasburg mainline trips of the 1980s with PRR 1223 and 7002 - on Amtrak and Conrail, with wood-framed passenger cars.

More recently, Strasburg moved N&W 475 and several wood-framed coaches to and from Leaman Place to Harrisburg in 1999 for filming a Thomas the Tank Engine movie - on Amtrak rails, unassisted.

I would assume that you won't see wood-framed equipment in regular Amtrak trains, for many good reasons, but there's no FRA prohibition.

Jim

Sorry I missed your post until today.

Meadow Lark Is running up and down the line now. We use it in our dinner train. There just starting to paint it now in the New Haven paint sceme. The car is still actualy a very good car and works well. Just fighting the rust and the wiring.

Here is a link to the car.Newhaven3.org

They keep it up to date starting with when it was removed from Gettysburg. do you have ANY pictures of the car? We would love to add them to the Libary. We have never found a single shot of the car at the New Haven or the Southern Pacific. We have a good lead on a celebraty in the car but not confirmed yet.

Jamie

quote:

Originally posted by John Craft:

quote:

Originally posted by smd4:

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
However, wood-bodied cars of the 19th and early 20th century cannot be operated on US mainline rails anymore, even if they have roller bearing equipped trucks.

True enough.

Actually, if you read through the relevant FRA regulations related to passenger equipment, there is no prohibition on wood-framed equipment. And there have been several Amtrak-approved operations of wood-framed passenger equipment.

Recall the Strasburg mainline trips of the 1980s with PRR 1223 and 7002 - on Amtrak and Conrail, with wood-framed passenger cars.

More recently, Strasburg moved N&W 475 and several wood-framed coaches to and from Leaman Place to Harrisburg in 1999 for filming a Thomas the Tank Engine movie - on Amtrak rails, unassisted.

I would assume that you won't see wood-framed equipment in regular Amtrak trains, for many good reasons, but there's no FRA prohibition.

John: I have to make a few corrections. I am 99.9% confident in the fact that Strasburg never used wood cars on the mainline excursions. Only a small fleet of steel cars they had purchased for the excursions.

For the Thomas movie, an Amtrak diesel was in the consist. I believe the 475 also had cab signals installed for the trip.

I should mention there is a difference between "wood framed" (that is, car underframes made of timbers re-enforced with iron truss rods under a wood bodied car) and 'wood-bodied, steel-underframed cars.'

These latter had steel center sills, bolsters and cross bearers and also may have steel truss rods supporting steel side sills. The wooden carbody on top might even have some steel carlines in it but it would still be largely built up with wooden truss car side framing underneath wood sheathing.

For a while after the 1910 PRR Penn Station ruling that no wood-bodied cars would be allowed, Pullman and other roads covered the wood sides of their steel undeframed cars with steel sheathing to get around this limitation. Hey, it was 1910!

Because of the potential fire risk from a derailed wood-bodied car in a Penn Station tunnel with its 600 volt, third-rail power at the time, steel sheathing reduced such a risk. It could create a short circuit heavy enough to trip control breakers. Wood instead could ignite from arcing as the third rail was compromised. Also being a poor conductor, it could smoulder if in contact with a live third rail until it ignited, thereby setting fire to the derailed car in the tunnel.

The IRT subway faced the same issue in the early 1900s. It was uable to buy enough all steel cars because of the short supply of good steel and builder problems in adapting to the new technology. So the subway also bought steel underframed wood-bodied cars that were sheathed in metal all over, including under the floor. This was to reduce the risk of fire in the event of a derailment. As more all-steel cars were received, the metal clad composites went into elevated service. They replaced wood bodied, wood underframed el cars that were originally hauled by little Forney steam locos and later electrified by Frank Sprague.

It could well be current FRRA and AMTRAK regulations do not address wood-bodied or wooden underframed equipment. However, that does not mean these regulations permit the use of the same. Wood-bodied cars are no longer used in mainline service even if equipped with steel underfrmaing. Tourist lines? Yes. However, such cars cannot meet current main-line service safety requirements for strength and crash-worthiness due to their age and the materials used in their construction.

When trying to move such a car by rail these days, even it if has a steel underframe, roller bearing trucks and up-to-date couplers, it would be almost impossible. No major railroad system would agree to haul it, even as a special move. Not even as a load on a long flatcar. Such a car would have to be off-trucked and hauled on a flat-bed highway rig.

Ed Bommer

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Bommer:
When trying to move such a car by rail these days, even it if has a steel underframe, roller bearing trucks and up-to-date couplers, it would be almost impossible. No major railroad system would agree to haul it, even as a special move. Not even as a load on a long flatcar. Such a car would have to be off-trucked and hauled on a flat-bed highway rig.

Ed Bommer

I'm a bit confused here, Ed. Do not the railroads allow transport of raw lumber, finished lumber and structural lumber as loads on flat cars these days?

It would seem to me that a wood car secured to a flat car with proper tie-downs, bracing and blocking would be no different.

Rusty

Enough with the wood, termites are gonna come and get us.
Here's a really nice observation/solarium car that I
photographed on the rear of the Capital Limited August of 2009.





It's a beauty, isn't it!

Ed Mullan

quote:

It's a beauty, isn't it!

Ed Mullan

Sure is! Anyone know of any drawings for it?

Ed,

Back in 2008 was Washington Union Station's 100th Birthday. In addition to a number of beautiful classic diesels and private cars in the terminal, that car was open for tours. IIRC, it was QUITE impressive inside with computers, and various instruments throughout.