Old transformers and modern electronics...

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff T:
I've been like a sponge reading all I can since I found this site last month. Thanks for all the information! I do have a question regarding transformers. If I read it correctly, circuit breakers in old transformers, like the original ZW, are meant to protect the transformer. Circuit breakers in new transformers, like the Z-4000, are meant to protect the circuit boards and new electronics on today's locomotives.

Also, the ZW can have an external fuse added to help prevent the same as the Z-4000?

Have I got this right?

Is it in my best interest to buy one of the new transformers and only use the ZW for my older stuff??

Just want to be sure "before" I ruin anything.

Thanks!

Circuit breakers in old PW transformers are to protect the transformer. They are thermal and slow and can be measured with a stop watch. It will also protect the bus wire to some degree if properly sized.

Circuit breakers in modern transformers protect the transformer. The breakers are more modern and trip very quickly. They also protect the bus wire if properly sized. Because they trip faster they offer a bit more protection because there is less exposure time to a short or overload event. However this is not sufficient to protect the modern electronics in modern trains.

What is needed is spike suppression offered by neither type transformer. Voltage spikes generated off equipment can ruin PC boards over a period of time. A simple TVS costing about 60 cents each will do this.

Here is a link which shows how to add protection to a PW type transformer. The extra breaker gives added protection to the bus wire and greatly shortens response time in case of a short circuit. The TVS should be used regardless of transformer type.


http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/Bl...d=486&categoryId=426

If you have an old ZW and it is in good condition,there is no reason not to use it on modern locos if protection is added.


Dale H

Older transformers also generated a pure sine wave signal, versus some modern transformers producing chopped sine wave. Dale knows more about this than I would ever hope to know....but I do know this:

Once I made sure all my track power came from pure sine wave transformers, all the "gremlins" went away from operating my loco's that have advanced electronics.

I now use the chopped wave transformers for accessories.

Welcome and enjoy!

quote:

Originally posted by Ahitpy:

Once I made sure all my track power came from pure sine wave transformers, all the "gremlins" went away from operating my loco's that have advanced electronics.

Good to remember and Thanks for the welcome!

quote:

Originally posted by Ahitpy:

Once I made sure all my track power came from pure sine wave transformers, all the "gremlins" went away from operating my loco's that have advanced electronics.

I now use the chopped wave transformers for accessories.

Curious what gremlins you experienced? I use Lionel bricks with a Legacy system and years ago stopped using the ZW when I added TMCC. I found the ZW wouldn't operate MTH PS1 horn (as I recall) & maybe other sounds. (gremlin?)

quote:

Originally posted by woojr:

quote:

Originally posted by Ahitpy:

Once I made sure all my track power came from pure sine wave transformers, all the "gremlins" went away from operating my loco's that have advanced electronics.

I now use the chopped wave transformers for accessories.

Curious what gremlins you experienced? I use Lionel bricks with a Legacy system and years ago stopped using the ZW when I added TMCC. I found the ZW wouldn't operate MTH PS1 horn (as I recall) & maybe other sounds. (gremlin?)

The gremlins were: horns/whistles that would not respond to commands, they would either sound intermittently, sound for longgggggggggg time with just a touch of the button or not at all; diesel engine or steam chuff sounds taking on a life of their own for no reason at random times.
At that time, I was using an MRC Dual with 270 watts of power. Don't get me wrong, it works great with all post-war stuff. I still have it and use it for accessories and it is solid.
I then purchased the MRC Pure Power Dual and was able to literally " drop it in" my control area. Pure sine wave, gremlins gone.
There are many good power alternatives out there today by Lionel, MTH and MRC. No flame or favorite contest needs to get started and everybody has their preference.
With modern electronics, pure sine wave and clean signal is the key.

Jeff T,
You can run both the old and the new transformers, and both work very well. Yes the ZW's and KW's need either Breakers or fuses to safe guard your DCS TIU. I use the Scott Breakers, they are great stuff. I power my layout with 2 ZW's, 1 Z4K and one KW right now, I will add another Z4K to my next layout. I always over power my layouts for expansion. Purchase Barrys DCS companion book Vol 2 and the OGR DCS Video guide, they show you how to set up both types of transformers to run the DCS. Rich Melvin does a great job of visually showing you how to set up your transformers on the DCS Video guide.
PCRR/Dave

Notice the Scott Breakers setting in front of the ZW and to the side of the KW. Each ZW & KW needs its own set of Scott Breakers when running DCS.