PENN CENTRAL FANS: An O-Gauge Product Checklist and Discussion Thread

Wasn't one end of it being wrecked the reason behind salvaging the other end for MoW purposes? For some reason I just can't find the original article I read on PC 4846.

Correct. The 4846 was involved in a wreck and that's what was salvaged. The conversion was done in Pennsy days, I believe in 1967.

By the way Nick, I love the thread!

Bob 

There's a lot of fun to be had discussing the Penn Central even if you're not a fan. Volumes can be written about the goofier equipment like that half of a GG1 and Rio Grande unit alone 

I asked Rich if it was possible to merge the two threads as I've seen done on other forums but unfortunately that's not a feature of the Hoop.la software. A shame, we would've been at 4 pages now. The first two are still available for viewing however so let's keep it going!

At the risk of being offensive:  As a child when I outgrew Lionel with it's unrealistic 3 rails and 3 tie tracks I "graduated" to HO.  My first HO set was a Tyco with a Penn Central  F unit in Green.  I didn't care anything about how the railroad was run good or bad, I just thought it was cool.  I love Penn Central stuff as well as Pennsy before and Conrail after.  This is a cool thread and I liked the other one as well.  

For all intents and purposes it's still the same thread. Same title and original post and all, just that the original two pages we had before getting derailed need to be looked at in an archival manner. Not such a big deal really.

I've seen those Tyco green PC diesels and while it does look cool on a model, I think that might have been a tad obnoxious on the real thing  As far as I know the Penn Central never did paint any of its motive power in Jade Green.

Nick,

I'm so glad you revived this thread.  I can't believe how it has taken off.  With all of the activity, I hope the manufacturers will take notice and see that there is, indeed, a market for Penn Central equipment.  Here are some of my suggestions:

GP-7/9

GP-30

GP-35

GP-38

U-33-B

U-28-C

U-33-C

40' PS-1 boxcar

PS-5 gondola

coil car

and...and...and...

Tom

You are correct Tom but there do seem to be certain flops as well. A really good example is how 3rd Rail ended up having to cancel the Penn Central E-7, which really sounded like a hit for PC fans on paper. It was reported that only two pre-orders were received on it. Was this because of a lack of interest or did we do ourselves in with too many people planning to snag it cheaper from a dealer?

(I would have been the third pre-order had it not been for my first trip to York emptying my hobby fund at the time).

I was as much to blame as anybody for that one. Living along the North Jersey Coast Line, I saw the last two remaining PC E7s, the 4233 and 4244, every day in NY&LB commuter service. Unfortunately, I was preoccupied with family matters during the time frame the 3rd Rail model was announced and I failed to order it. Perhaps Mr. Mann would consider taking another shot at it. This time I promise I'll be ready.

Bob  

Bob, I forget if it was you or Jonathan that was talking about how some dealers will buy out a run of 3rd Rail locos. I wonder if we could get a dealer such as Beth at The Public Delivery Track on board for buying out a 3rd Rail run of PC E-7s?

And why would she buy an entire run of PC E-7's that she would be stuck with? Even if everyone that has posted they would buy it did, she would sell what 2 dozen? A losing proposition for a loser RR.

I believe Scott once said he would go ahead with production even at just 20 orders. I think with the right advertising that can be achieved here. After all the Penn Central FL-9 did get produced.

Then, there was this little dust up in Model Railroader 1970-71 about PC steam decals:

Rusty

Hi, Nick.

I think it was Jonathan who was discussing that. In fact, I believe 3rd Rail was able to carry through with the Conrail 4800 in its Bicentennial scheme because a dealer purchased the run of the model.

On the subject of the E7s, here are a few units which continued to wear Pennsy Tuscan following the merger. Note the application of the PC herald on the nose and new PC 4200 series numbers using PRR style numerals:

Intriguing modeling possibilities to be sure.

Bob

The issue with any future run of the E7 has to do with larger numbers than any single railroad can provide.  Another run is probably, and I'm only guessing, about 500-700 units.  The minimum run per road was 40 units.  It may be to 60 now, but I can't pretend to speak for Scott's production requirements with the manufacturer as that is a moving target.  40 units of PC in 2r and 3r would probably sell on a future run if someone wanted to front the costs and could hold a portion of the inventory.  If I were going to get a future E7, it would be PC and in 3 rail.  While my 2 rail layout is 1953-1957 era specific more or less, my 3 rail is a pretty loose 1972 to 1982 time period.  A lot happened then!

Since there have been two full runs of E7s and some specials.  The question is now, what road names that haven't run would fill in the rest of the run?  As much as I'd be interested in one, I suspect we won't see another run of E7's from 3rd Rail anytime soon if at all.  The FL9 tooling is the next generation and an evolutionary improvement.  The FP7 will be as good or better   Your best bet is to lobby for those as a special run through a dealer.  Many FP7s ran up into the Conrail era and would be a nice fit for most three rail layouts with the shorter wheelbase.  Eight road names for the first run are being settled by preorders as we speak.  Your pre-order is your vote

While I'll likely get a set of Tuscan 2R units.  I'd be in for a PC 3 rail one it if happens.  Of course, I'd prefer Amtrak ....... LOL.

Penn Central FP7 anyone?

Bob

I'm always game for anything scale and Penn Central, although the E-7 just would've been nice as I've seen tons of photos of them pulling those stubby little PC passenger trains  We'll just have to see how it all plays out.

Not O scale but my N scale roster hosts quite a bit of PC power. Here's part of the roster. You can see a number of PC locomotives scattered about. They run the gamut from ALCo road switchers to EMD second generation units.

Bob

Nick - as an aside, I am doing contract work on the FP7 and I am also a dealer for 3rd Rail now.  I can't afford to pay for a run outright, but since it is based on the PRR version which will be run for sure, we are talking nearly the same details in different paint.  I'd have to get at least 32 commitments probably to make this work, but it could be a real possibility.  Granted the FP7 was strictly used for freight by the time of PC as were most FP7s, but it will be a great locomotive.  Are there 32 buyers out there on the forum?  This loco could be crowd sourced.  Bob is correct in that this is how the Bicentennial GG1 ran.  It wasn't going to originally. 

Jonathan, if this is a real possibility, you have my commitment as one of your 32. Keep us updated 

Jocko, the fact that you're taking the time to contribute the photos to this thread at all is already greatly appreciated. No need to sell yourself short on the photography, which is fine by the way 

I saw that $45 Lionel caboose on eBay too but the problem was it didn't have its original box. I'm an originality junkie so that ruled out that particular caboose for me. It's still a great deal for a Penn Central fan that doesn't care about boxes.

As for the passenger train that's a really neat custom job on yours. That's basically the idea but I'll be going with the new MTH Penn Central 70' cars because they have interiors, are not too chromed out, and they lack the streamline skirting on the bottom, which is prototypical. I'm also going with a porthole B60 baggage car since that's what I see the most of in photos.

I had pre-ordered an AB set of the PC E7's, but we can only hope they get made in our lifetime.

This is my current Penn Central roster:

Below is my Penn Central scale wish list:

21” Passenger Set

FP7 ABA

Metroliner

F7 ABBA 

E7 and/or E8 ABA

SD45

GG1 (new one in black paint)

Thought I'd also share these little badges I made from a picture on Google images for anyone else that would like to have one in their signature. I'm currently wearing Jade Green 

Penn Central Black:

Penn Central Jade Green:

Penn Central MoW Yellow:

Penn Central MTA Scheme FL9:

Another modeling option for PC passenger consists includes Railway Post Office cars. Although RPO traffic had diminished considerably by the time of the NYC/PRR merger, Penn Central carried RPO cars right up until being absorbed by Conrail. In fact, when the last run of an RPO took place in 1977, it utilized former PC equipment.

Here's a photo of a PC Railway Post Office car:

Bob

Bob, thank you for your continued information on Penn Central modelling opportunities and tips. Keep em' coming 

Brian, impressive roster! This item is what I had questioned Terry about around the time the original two pages got locked:

MTH 20-5603E Penn Central N-8 Caboose

Judging by that item number, is this the caboose from MTH's Penn Central Tropicana Juice Train? It has the same road number as their regular production 20-91112 Penn Central N-8 Caboose and I was wondering if there was any cosmetic difference. If there is, it qualifies to be added to my checklist as a set-breakup item.

Nick, as you mentioned that caboose came from the Tropicana Juice Train set with the E44 locomotive.  I haven't seen them side by side but I'd guess it's the same as the regular MTH  production model.

An interesting thing on my roster is the Lionel caboose #9172.  That was the first/earliest Penn Central rolling stock item I bought.  I found it at the upstairs Strasburg Train Shop back around 1998.  It'a post war style caboose, looks like the SP type, I was told it was a custom paint job (all black) with a pick-up roller and light bulb added.  I thought it would go good with my Williams GG1!

Brian, would you be able to share a good clear photo of it with us? I have the 20-91112 model to compare it to. Who knows, maybe it's slightly tweaked and thus its own item.

Here's Jocko's explanation of the various mating worms from the original two pages that got locked:

Since the MTH Tropicana Juice Train Set was mentioned, I recall observations about the PC herald on at least some of the E44s being done incorrectly. I believe the P and C on the model merged into each other without the edges being separated as on the prototype. Has anyone seen an MTH PC E44 with a properly applied herald?

Bob

I too remember that error, caused quite a stir on the forum back when it happened. I forget what the solution was too.

The solution for the MTH PC E44 was pretty straight forward.  A little modeler's masking tape and black paint.  Granted it was painted incorrectly, but the fix was very easy.  I wish I had the cash to buy one when it came out.  The E44 is one giant gap in my roster of electrics.

I had been thinking in terms of painting out the Penn Central markings and relettering it for Conrail like so:

Bob

What I meant to say was I forgot if MTH offered a factory fix, like Lionel has done in the past with sending out new shells. If I recall correctly the big stir that happened was the people who demanded a factory fix got pretty heated when told it was easy to fix it themselves 

The UPS man also just arrived with the latest acquisitions. The new Lionel caboose is quite nice and it looks like they're still sticking with their very vibrant interpretation of the NYC / PC Jade Green. Also some non-PC heritage equipment to add to the PC mixed freights.

I had remembered 20 as the number but Jonathan corrected me and it's more like 40 or 60. Here is 3rd Rail's page for their E-7s. The announcement flyer still has the Penn Central scheme on it:

http://www.3rdrail.com/instock.html#E7

This thread is proof that not everybody hates the old Penn Central. Much thanks to Nick for starting the thread and assisting in it's revival. Thanks Nick.

 

On another note. Traindiesel, can I come over to your house to play trains with you? That's an impressive roster of Penn Central equipment you have there.

 

 

Just found this website with tons of archived Penn Central info and literature. Still combing through it all. Check it out!

http://www.unlikelypcrr.com/index.html