PS-1 Sound Car disappointment

Hi Scott, is it possible to drill the new sound cars base frame  so you can mount the old shells on the new frames?

They are identical to ALL my other Lionel PS-1 box cars.

Remove the 4 screws that hold the door tracks in place. Push the door track tabs out off the floor of the car.

Remove the trucks.

Remove the 2 screws in the center, 1 on each end.

Put your sounds car floor back into any other Lionel PS-1 shell and re-assmeble.

There is absolutely NO difference between the Lionel scale PS-1 box cars. The Atlas and MTH cars usually have 4 screws, 1 in each corner.

When I run mine, all I can hear is loud banging intermittently, am I doing something wrong, I cannot hear squealing and the banging on the main line does not seem correct to me?  thanks

I have been hunting for my other Lionel PS-1 boxcars--yes Laid off Sick is right, they will change out with other Lionel PS-1 boxcars. So I was wrong. So now I can have a C&O and a Virginian sound boxcar.

Scott Smith

Turn Sound OFF, then one-quarter turn ON.  My six Sound Boxcars are much better after I turned my volume to one quarter turn up from full OFF.  (OFF is about 11/5 o'clock on the screw-driver-turned volume knob.  My new setting is 1:30/7:30).  This gives the flange sound enough volume to sound, and the bump sounds a softer response as the cars circle my layout.  The bumps diminish some at higher speeds, and the flange wheel squeal is present, but not harsh.  Full volume is Wayyyyyy tooo much volume.  Try this setting, then adjust to your layout.  I don't know for sure, but I would assume that a conventional layout will differ from the fixed voltage of a Legacy layout.  I run Legacy at between 16 and 17 volts on my ZW-L transformer thanks to other OGR Forum members suggestions.  ( It is like food, "season it to your taste.")  John

If I were to recommend anything for the sound cars, I'd say to reduce the relative volume of the bumps and bangs relative to the flange squeal, and also reduce the amount of bumps and bangs.  I'd also add in some more prototypical rolling track noise.  IMO, the audio could be made better fairly easily.  If you listen to a real freight train passing, it's not sounding like someone is bowling with the boxes in an empty boxcar.  You hear mostly rolling sounds and perhaps some flange squeal.  The loud hollow booming seems phony to me.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If I were to recommend anything for the sound cars, I'd say to reduce the relative volume of the bumps and bangs relative to the flange squeal, and also reduce the amount of bumps and bangs.  I'd also add in some more prototypical rolling track noise.  IMO, the audio could be made better fairly easily.  If you listen to a real freight train passing, it's not sounding like someone is bowling with the boxes in an empty boxcar.  You hear mostly rolling sounds and perhaps some flange squeal.  The loud hollow booming seems phony to me.

Couldn't agree more!

I returned all four sound cars I purchased. I do a lot of trackside railfanning and the sound of cars squealing as they roll by even when on a slight curve is part of the experience. I do not often hear banging and clanging in or about the cars. I certainly do not want to hear banging and clanging as the cars roll by on my model railroad. I want to hear the flange squeal. Some might prefer not to hear that. Fine. As I understand the sounds, the squealing occurs less frequently than the other sounds. Not for me. Why did I not try it first? I accept the Forumites' descriptions and I cannot expect to return a used car as new.

I have several sets of Vision reefers. Those sounds I like. I'll use those.

Lionel, do what Gunrunner John suggested. Better yet, include a sensor for the curves.

Scrapster

I returned my Pennsy sound car back to Charles Ro.  Never removed it from the box, so it was a no-questions-asked-return... thanks to the early reviews here on the forum!   Spoke to Charlie directly, and he's great with that kind of stuff.  Of course, I bought something else in its place.  

David

I did understand that these car body would interchange. As for the sound I wonder why they chose to make yard sounds instead of a main line runner.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If I were to recommend anything for the sound cars, I'd say to reduce the relative volume of the bumps and bangs relative to the flange squeal, and also reduce the amount of bumps and bangs.  I'd also add in some more prototypical rolling track noise.  IMO, the audio could be made better fairly easily.  If you listen to a real freight train passing, it's not sounding like someone is bowling with the boxes in an empty boxcar.  You hear mostly rolling sounds and perhaps some flange squeal.  The loud hollow booming seems phony to me.

I respectfully disagree ... I live off of the CSX main for 30 years and I always hear "bumps and bangs" of empty cars at speed. As far as the flange squeal;  that was the best feature of the VL cars... I could turn that noise off!

I don't dispute there are some bumps and bangs, but not at the level and frequency these cars emit the sounds.  As far as flange squeal, it's a fact of life with rail cars, so I would like it to be present.  There is basically no "running" sounds in the background, which should be a prominent feature.

Here's some typical stuff I put in my sound boxcars.  Embellish these a bit and they'd be a good choice for the sounds.

Hey John, very cool sound files.

Paul

"There is basically no "running" sounds in the background, which should be a prominent feature."

Agreed. However I do like the different sounds that these cars offer.

Begs the question... why not create your own sound chip that can replace this one?

I finally had a chance to test my PRR Sound cars out. At first I was startled by the loudness - but in a good way - they sound very realistic - and fortunately they do have a volume knob. Having once worked very close to a regional rail station in PA - I can attest to the fact that wheel flange to rail squeels occur at slow speeds, and would have preferred that feature to active at slower speeds. Using my DCS and Legacy remotes I observed the squeels begin to activate at 35 mph and 87 Legacy increments, respectively (that's about the same velocity but Legacy uses a different measure of speed increments). Overall, I am pleased with the cars - they add another dimension to the running experience.

J Daddy posted:

Begs the question... why not create your own sound chip that can replace this one?

Not to worry, there's an active design going for just such a product.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't dispute there are some bumps and bangs, but not at the level and frequency these cars emit the sounds.  As far as flange squeal, it's a fact of life with rail cars, so I would like it to be present.  There is basically no "running" sounds in the background, which should be a prominent feature.

Here's some typical stuff I put in my sound boxcars.  Embellish these a bit and they'd be a good choice for the sounds.

Sound clip 2 is very reminiscent of what I used to hear every day, sitting in my former office that was (as I said in the other thread) a stone's throw away from the Worcester & Providence line. Clunk, clunk ... clunk clunk.  The one sound that's an absolute constant in any freight rolling down the pike.  Yet, not present in these cars.

Obviously personal preference, but I'm fine with the NYC version I received.  Another option to add sound to one's operating.

PJB posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't dispute there are some bumps and bangs, but not at the level and frequency these cars emit the sounds.  As far as flange squeal, it's a fact of life with rail cars, so I would like it to be present.  There is basically no "running" sounds in the background, which should be a prominent feature.

Here's some typical stuff I put in my sound boxcars.  Embellish these a bit and they'd be a good choice for the sounds.

Sound clip 2 is very reminiscent of what I used to hear every day, sitting in my former office that was (as I said in the other thread) a stone's throw away from the Worcester & Providence line. Clunk, clunk ... clunk clunk.  The one sound that's an absolute constant in any freight rolling down the pike.  Yet, not present in these cars.

Constant rolling sounds are exactly what I expected to hear and didn't hear.  I think a more constant background sound with less bangs and clunks would be a better soundtrack.  The flange squeal is fine, obviously it would be really cool if they had the sensor the Vision Line tank cars had so they knew when they were turning to trigger that sound.

I'm not so bummed that I'll send it back, but I am in no hurry to buy any additional ones.

wb47 posted:

When I run mine, all I can hear is loud banging intermittently, am I doing something wrong, I cannot hear squealing and the banging on the main line does not seem correct to me?  thanks

Make sure the switch is on MAX. Then you should hear the wheel squealing.

GRJ, your clips are what I expected.  The bangs would be good for yard action, but I suppose there was no way to do it at only a bump of car or at very low speeds.  Would like to swap mine out if an alternate chip becomes available.  I will probably keep my two as the cars themselves are nicely done, but overpriced a bit if one does not care for the sound.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

J Daddy posted:

Begs the question... why not create your own sound chip that can replace this one?

Not to worry, there's an active design going for just such a product.

I'm in! I love those sound files.

I generated those sound files from this Train and Railroad Noise Machine site.  You can custom blend your own, and there are a bunch of presets on the right hand side of the page.  I generated about half an hour of sound, then used Audacity to take the file and with a few copies make a really long file to play for a whole operating session.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I generated those sound files from this Train and Railroad Noise Machine site.  You can custom blend your own, and there are a bunch of presets on the right hand side of the page.  I generated about half an hour of sound, then used Audacity to take the file and with a few copies make a really long file to play for a whole operating session.

That's really cool. Thanks for the info. I have a 12' module in my club which I would like to have a passing train(s) trigger the sound as they roll trough and fade after they pass. Seems very possible. Thanks again.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I generated those sound files from this Train and Railroad Noise Machine site.  You can custom blend your own, and there are a bunch of presets on the right hand side of the page.  I generated about half an hour of sound, then used Audacity to take the file and with a few copies make a really long file to play for a whole operating session.

GRJ - just for clarity, does the method you're using play the sounds regardless of what the train is actually doing?  Meaning, if the train is high balling down the pike or at a crawl, the cadence of the clunk-clunk will be identical?  So, in a sense, out of synch with actual train movement?  Thanks 

I have no way of synchronizing the sounds to the speed of the train, that requires active sound generation and not just playing recorded sounds.  That enters a whole different dimension, you can ask Rudy from Lionel about that, he's their sound guy.  I am going to have a sensor input so I can tell if I'm moving or stopped. 

At some point, I might consider sensing speed and switching recordings based on relative speed, but that would be down the road.  This would simply be switching the soundtrack I was playing based on speed.  The good part is I can play a virtually unlimited number of sound clips, and track selection is software controlled, so I can tune it at a later date.

Another big issue would be obtaining realistic sound clips at various road speeds as well, any ideas?

Wow, I am very impressed with the Quality of the sound cars...I was actually prepared for the worse but am Amazed at the sounds and the really great paint jobs on these really nice sound cars....Thank You Lionel...

I ran 4 of these cars (with volume turned down halfway) in a consist last week at the train club and they sounded fine. The bangs and bumps do dominate. 

Just don't expect them to be as good as the Vision reefer or ethanol cars.

We had several mixed in a long train at the last show it was great. Sounded just like I was sitting watching the real thing. We are all very happy with them. We had some Vision cars mixed in. About every 4 cars we had a sound car.

Just ran mine for the first time.

The Min-Max switch on the bottom increases or decreases the frequency of the sounds, on Max you get closer to a clickey clack...but not exactly.

I am pretty happy with the car...if Lionel would add the clickey clack I would buy another...and put this one half way down the consist.

The sporadic sounds are clear. It would be nice to be able to add more sounds from real railroads. Freight cars make all sorts of moaning and creaking when rolling over the tracks. Those sounds are needed. 

Andrew

I would swear that the flange squeal is more frequent at higher speeds. I did some experimenting with my PRR car and I get a lot more squeal at 33 SMPH than I do at 25.

Well, they do have a truck mounted wheel sensor, so they could determine speeds and change the audio if they were so inclined.  However, I ran mine around at a pretty slow speed and then cranked it up to near max speed.  I don't hear any more flange sounds at high speed than at low speed, so that my be wishful thinking on your part.  I'm not disappointed enough to return it, but I won't be buying any more of them unless the sounds change.

There has to be a way to add to the sound sets.

There's a way, but only Lionel has the keys to the castle.

Cool. Not to be a Debbie  downer. How many PS1 sound cars does one need on their layout?

The volume is loud enough that there could be one per freight train if you can afford it.

Seacoast posted:

Cool. Not to be a Debbie  downer. How many PS1 sound cars does one need on their layout?

I have one B&O PS-1 and based on my actual railroad experience, the sounds are very amusing. I call it "ground pounder revenge." I may get a second PS-1 somewhere down the line, but for now, one is all I need.

Seacoast posted:

Cool. Not to be a Debbie  downer. How many PS1 sound cars does one need on their layout?

What's that strange word you're using?  "need"?  Who said anything about need?

In truth, for a 40 car consist, having three or four with the volume cranked down a bit would make it sound very realistic, one in a train that size keeps the sound too localized.