Pull out the MPC!

This is about 1/3 of my MPC Stuff, poor photo but the shelfs are 24 feet long and the Southern and Blue Comet set both have the add on Diner Lionel brought out over 20 years ago and the Milwaukee Road set also has the Diner, FDR Car and all the add on and coupon cars. That little locomotive can't even think about pulling all of the cars. The 9700 Series cars are on the other side of the wall and most of the Motive Power is in a display under glass. Nothing wrong with MPC it is some great stuff and very well done.

@johnstrains posted:

I wonder about that depressed center car with the transformer that came with the Mid-Atlantic Set. It must be one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made. Or maybe the longest?  I have that set but it's packed away. Should get the car out and measure it.

@johnstrains posted:

Here's the depressed center transformer car that I mentioned above from the Mid-Atlantic Set.

16 inches from coupler to coupler. Easily one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made.

Here's one I have on display, with a custom load I fixed for it. Yup, 16 inches long coupler end to coupler end; body is 14 7/8 inches. Great cars. It should be mentioned that these are all diecast metal! I added some decals to letter it for Union Pacific, and also painted the deck ends with a textured paint to give those more of an appearance of wood.

If I remember correctly, I believe a lot of those cars came with broken insulators. Lionel also made this car with two plastic girders. The car came with blue rubber bands. A lot of the rubber bands came dry rotted. Both of these cars were also made back in the fifties.

Lionel MPC era RDC cars.

I have a lot of MPC and just about everything they made with New York Central inscribed on it.  This is the set that lured me back into the Lionel Train hobby at the ripe old age of 24 in 1977. Still warms my heart to look at this set.

@jim sutter posted:

If I remember correctly, I believe a lot of those cars came with broken insulators. Lionel also made this car with two plastic girders. The car came with blue rubber bands. A lot of the rubber bands came dry rotted. Both of these cars were also made back in the fifties.

I had several of those plastic transformers, but the insulators were ok. The transformers were easily available. The no. 6509 was a grey depressed-center flatcar with two tuscan colored bridge girders. I think the rubber bands were just to hold the girders in place in the box during shipping.

@johnstrains posted:

Here's the depressed center transformer car that I mentioned above from the Mid-Atlantic Set.

16 inches from coupler to coupler. Easily one of the longest pieces of rolling stock Lionel ever made.

Not only is it long, its quite heavy with a diecast frame and 4 diecast trucks.  I remember having the 8770 EMD NW-2 switcher from the 1977 Cargo King set and with the transformer car and just one or two other pieces of rolling stock the 8770 had a tough time getting the train moving.

@franktrain posted:

Here’s a recent acquisition that has wet my appetite for MPC. 1971 Illinois Central set.

Boy, does this bring back memories!  My first Lionel train set was the 1972 incarnation of the Cross Country Express.  In addition to the IC GP9 and caboose, it had a Southern boxcar, B&O silver double door boxcar, a brown N&W hopper, L&N flat with bulldozer and scraper kits and Shell tank car.  I got it for Christmas that year.  It turned out to be a "Family Gift".  When I opened the box on Christmas morning there was only the locomotive, caboose, Southern boxcar, N&W hopper and Shell tank car, along with an oval of track and the transformer.  My grandparents (on both sides), aunts and uncles proceeded to give me the remaining components later in the day at various Christmas parties.

I still have the train set, but the locomotive power truck failed several years ago.  i just haven't taken the initiative to get it fixed.  The transformer is in use on my current layout as an accessory power supply.

I sure had a lot of fun with the MPC stuff!

Tom

@NYC Fan posted:

I have a lot of MPC and just about everything they made with New York Central inscribed on it.  This is the set that lured me back into the Lionel Train hobby at the ripe old age of 24 in 1977. Still warms my heart to look at this set.

That was a hot set back in the day, with some very desirable cars, particularly the colorful Great Northern boxcar, the Southern Big John hopper, the chrome Pennzoil tank car, and the NYC "Road to the Future" bay window. I remember there was a lot of discussion back then about the "P & E" annotation on the caboose, and what division of the NYC that represented.

@ed h posted:

A few more top of the line sets, these are all from mid 1970s. Looking closely at the Chessie U36B, the engine shell appears to be a mockup, especially the top of rear radiator.

I fell in love with the 8470 Chessie U36B locomotive when I saw it in the catalog.  I had to have one, so I asked my parents for it for Christmas.  I was told that it was only available in the set and they could not afford to get me another set.  I resigned myself to the fact that I wouldn't own this engine.

A couple of weeks before Christmas my father asked me to get something out of the trunk of the car for him.  Being we kept the car in our attached garage, the keys were always left in the ignition.  When I went out to the car the keys weren't there.  Puzzled, I reached under the seat thinking they might have fallen on the floor.  My hand ran into a box under the seat.  Lo and behold, there was the Chessie U36B locomotive.  After admiring it for several minutes I carefully put it back where I found it and spent the next weeks playing dumb.  I acted surprised on Christmas morning when I opened the package.

I still have this locomotive and it still runs like new.

Tom

@RJT posted:

This is about 1/3 of my MPC Stuff, poor photo but the shelfs are 24 feet long and the Southern and Blue Comet set both have the add on Diner Lionel brought out over 20 years ago and the Milwaukee Road set also has the Diner, FDR Car and all the add on and coupon cars.

If you want to complete that Milwaukee set, you may want to check out the no. 52402, a special issue ice car reefer put out by the Lionel Milwaukee Railroad Club a number of years ago. It's meant to go with the MPC era Milwaukee passenger cars, and matches the colors. Pretty hard to find, although Grzyboski's has one listed for sale right now. Kind of fun that this car was issued, long after the MPC cars were made. I have these Milwaukee cars running behind a MPC era no. 8558 MIlwaukee EP-5, which is a perfect color match, and the set looks like the shot below.

I put the Milwaukee EP-5 shell on a PWC (Post War Celebration) series EP-5 chassis (was a New Haven EP-5) (very easy to do), which gives it TMCC, RailSounds, directional constant lighting, electrocouplers, and crew figures. I'm a big fan of PWC, and besides the EP-5, have also converted some MPC F3s and Geeps with PWC chassis'.

@John Meyncke posted:

My favorite MPC...it took me forever to find the B unit.

John

I got this locomotive set when a local hobby shop was going out of business.  They had the AA set at MSRP and I wasn't going to pay that much for a locomotive that I didn't find particularly attractive.  I went into the shop several times to buy rolling stock during the going out of business sale and eyed the set every time I was in there. It was starting to grow on me. One day several weeks later my brother came home and told me that they had just announced that everything was 75% off.  We jumped in his truck and made a bee-line for the shop.  I walked in and grabbed the locomotive set.  As I was walking toward the counter a gentleman walked in the door and stopped in his tracks as he saw me holding the F3's.  He dropped his head and turned around, walking back out the door.  As I was leaving, another gentleman saw me in the parking lot and approached me, inquiring if I was interested in selling the engines.  Needless to say, I turned him down.  It turned out I made a good decision as these units had dual motors and were extremely good pullers.  I found a B unit at Trainworld to complete the set.

Tom

breezinup,

The tank car in the N.Y.C. Empire Express Set was a chrome Sunoco Tank Car not Pennzoil. Also back then the chrome on the Sunoco tank car got funny looking.

Take away the electronics and remote control features the sets that Lionel is making today are not as nice as these.

@jim sutter posted:

breezinup,

The tank car in the N.Y.C. Empire Express Set was a chrome Sunoco Tank Car not Pennzoil. Also back then the chrome on the Sunoco tank car got funny looking.

Take away the electronics and remote control features The sets that Lionel is making today are not as nice as these.

Right, Jim, it was the Sunoco tank car. I completely agree that the MPC sets are unsurpassed by what's made today.

The annual Limited boxed sets, including the Milwaukee Road, Chessie Royal Ltd., Southern Pacific, Great Northern Rocky Mountain, Reading Quaker City, CP Maple Leaf, among them, were all extremely nice, with very attractive colors and variety of cars. The FARR (Famous American Railroads) series was also great, including the Great Northern, UP, Santa Fe, Pennsy, and Southern. A number of those had Berkshires for engines, built the same as the highly-regarded Postwar variety. Better, in fact, because of their interesting prototypical paint schemes.

Acquiring some of these sets, or even just the cars and running them behind a LionChief engine, if command control and cruise is desired, would yield a lot of railroading enjoyment.

@breezinup posted:

Right, Jim, it was the Sunoco tank car. I completely agree that the MPC sets are unsurpassed by what's made today.

The annual Limited boxed sets, including the Milwaukee Road, Chessie Royal Ltd., Southern Pacific, Great Northern Rocky Mountain, Reading Quaker City, CP Maple Leaf, among them, were all extremely nice, with very attractive colors and variety of cars. The FARR (Famous American Railroads) series was also great, including the Great Northern, UP, Santa Fe, Pennsy, and Southern. A number of those had Berkshires for engines, built the same as the highly-regarded Postwar variety. Better, in fact, because of their interesting prototypical paint schemes.

Acquiring some of these sets, or even just the cars and running them behind a LionChief engine, if command control and cruise is desired, would yield a lot of railroading enjoyment.

Since I have the Royal Limited set, I picked up the LionChief Chessie U36B from set 82324 for a very attractive price and can run it with the Royal Limited cars.  Kind of like having a retro set with modern features.

I will offer up a bit of a counterpoint to the love being shown MPC in this thread.  Make no mistake, I have my share of MPC and some of it is pretty nice, but that wasn't always so.  My first train set was the Black River Freight, which I got for Christmas in about 1977.  That set was sold at a garage sale a couple of years later, but nostalgia directed me to buy a new one a couple of years ago.  This set was brand new, never opened.  See pics.

Upon opening the set, you see you got a lot of cool stuff.  You got a steam engine with the bbs rattling around in it to simulate the sound of a locomotive, a freight consist, a cardboard mountain, train station, and tunnel, a set of trestles, telephone poles, signs, LCL load for the gondola, and stakes for the flatcar.  All pretty cool!

However, it wouldn't (and won't now) stay on the track.  The hopper car is okay, but the others are essentially massless and are easily string-lined off the track.  The locomotive is similarly too light and easily derailed.  Most of the couplers are fixed, and the hopper has a single electrocoupler, the only one in the set.  

When I was a kid, I didn't get much enjoyment out of the set.  My dad's postwar stuff stayed on the track and had nifty operating features mine did not.  

Now that I have the set as an adult, I'm torn between leaving it as-is and running it only rarely for a few minutes at a time, or adding weight to the cars and putting a light and interior in the caboose.  If I modify it, it's just not the same. I'm just torn what to do.

My modern stuff is better in every way, but this old MPC set isn't without its charm.  So, when you look back at MPC, don't let yourself get too swept away in the nostalgia.  In some ways, the MPC-era's poor reputation is well-earned.

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

I will offer up a bit of a counterpoint to the love being shown MPC in this thread.  Make no mistake, I have my share of MPC and some of it is pretty nice, but that wasn't always so.  My first train set was the Black River Freight, which I got for Christmas in about 1977.  That set was sold at a garage sale a couple of years later, but nostalgia directed me to buy a new one a couple of years ago.  This set was brand new, never opened.  See pics.

Upon opening the set, you see you got a lot of cool stuff.  You got a steam engine with the bbs rattling around in it to simulate the sound of a locomotive, a freight consist, a cardboard mountain, train station, and tunnel, a set of trestles, telephone poles, signs, LCL load for the gondola, and stakes for the flatcar.  All pretty cool!

However, it wouldn't (and won't now) stay on the track.  The hopper car is okay, but the others are essentially massless and are easily string-lined off the track.  The locomotive is similarly too light and easily derailed.  Most of the couplers are fixed, and the hopper has a single electrocoupler, the only one in the set.  

When I was a kid, I didn't get much enjoyment out of the set.  My dad's postwar stuff stayed on the track and had nifty operating features mine did not.  

Now that I have the set as an adult, I'm torn between leaving it as-is and running it only rarely for a few minutes at a time, or adding weight to the cars and putting a light and interior in the caboose.  If I modify it, it's just not the same. I'm just torn what to do.

My modern stuff is better in every way, but this old MPC set isn't without its charm.  So, when you look back at MPC, don't let yourself get too swept away in the nostalgia.  In some ways, the MPC-era's poor reputation is well-earned.

I assume the cars have plastic wheelsets?  I had some of the low end cars like this and I switched the wheelsets to metal ones.  Made a big difference in the tracking of the cars. 

Tom

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

I will offer up a bit of a counterpoint to the love being shown MPC in this thread.  Make no mistake, I have my share of MPC and some of it is pretty nice, but that wasn't always so.  My first train set was the Black River Freight, which I got for Christmas in about 1977.  That set was sold at a garage sale a couple of years later, but nostalgia directed me to buy a new one a couple of years ago.  This set was brand new, never opened.  See pics.

Upon opening the set, you see you got a lot of cool stuff.  You got a steam engine with the bbs rattling around in it to simulate the sound of a locomotive, a freight consist, a cardboard mountain, train station, and tunnel, a set of trestles, telephone poles, signs, LCL load for the gondola, and stakes for the flatcar.  All pretty cool!

However, it wouldn't (and won't now) stay on the track.  The hopper car is okay, but the others are essentially massless and are easily string-lined off the track.  The locomotive is similarly too light and easily derailed.  Most of the couplers are fixed, and the hopper has a single electrocoupler, the only one in the set.  

When I was a kid, I didn't get much enjoyment out of the set.  My dad's postwar stuff stayed on the track and had nifty operating features mine did not.  

Now that I have the set as an adult, I'm torn between leaving it as-is and running it only rarely for a few minutes at a time, or adding weight to the cars and putting a light and interior in the caboose.  If I modify it, it's just not the same. I'm just torn what to do.

My modern stuff is better in every way, but this old MPC set isn't without its charm.  So, when you look back at MPC, don't let yourself get too swept away in the nostalgia.  In some ways, the MPC-era's poor reputation is well-earned.

@Tom Densel posted:

I assume the cars have plastic wheelsets?  I had some of the low end cars like this and I switched the wheelsets to metal ones.  Made a big difference in the tracking of the cars.

Tom

This Black River Freight set was a very inexpensive basic 0-27 starter set. Even the steam engine is made of plastic, not heavy diecast metal like most Lionel engines. That is a big reason it doesn't track very well. The cars are small and very light, with fixed couplers - as basic as you can get.  It was really made for small children as a starter set, so you shouldn't expect a lot out of it. The majority of MPC sets that have been discussed here are in a completely different league.

Tom Thank You for that information I just ordered it. To think for all these years I thought I had the complete set.

I've had a crescent limited set for a while and the SOS in the tender was shot. I just added a pickup to the tender and installed a railsound package. I'll have to get the matching cars out for a video.

@ed h posted:

Since I have the Royal Limited set, I picked up the LionChief Chessie U36B from set 82324 for a very attractive price and can run it with the Royal Limited cars.  Kind of like having a retro set with modern features.

I considered getting a LionChief Plus D&H RS3 to run with my Coastal Freight set.  Those LTI service station sets seemed to have nice cars with die cast trucks etc, but cheaper starter-set locomotives.  I wonder why?

@RJT posted:

Tom Thank You for that information I just ordered it. To think for all these years I thought I had the complete set.

Glad you got it. Interesting that Grysboski happened to have one when this topic came up. They don't show up very often. They sold out pretty quickly when they came out a number of years ago, I recall. I run it as a head-end car as an express reefer.

@breezinup posted:

Glad you got it. Interesting that Grysboski happened to have one when this topic came up. They don't show up very often. They sold out pretty quickly when they came out a number of years ago, I recall. I run it as a head-end car as an express reefer.

Unfortunately, Grzyboski’s is my local bad influence of choice I keep saying that I have to stop looking at their website, but I haven’t learned how to just yet... every couple of weeks I feel an undeniable urge to search their site. Lately, I have found some amazing NOS items such as a Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson, a set of Lionel aluminum 15” D&H passenger cars, a set set of MTH D&H passenger cars, and a set of MTH NH passenger cars. I really need to stop!!!

@mlavender480 posted:

I considered getting a LionChief Plus D&H RS3 to run with my Coastal Freight set.  Those LTI service station sets seemed to have nice cars with die cast trucks etc, but cheaper starter-set locomotives.  I wonder why?

During the LTI period, the Service Station engines were pretty much the same as the normal production engines, not cheap starter set locos. Picking up a LionChief Plus version of the D&H RS-3 seems like a good idea to get upgraded features like command and cruise.

Here's a link for some great information on the history of Service Station sets, and a complete list of all Service Station sets produced, which was meticulously documented by Bill Schmeelk for the LCCA publication "The Lion Roars:"

https://www.lionelcollectors.o...alogs/SSS%20sets.pdf

Figured I'd ask here since this is probably the best thread to do so, I recently got my hands on the MPC era Bicentennial locomotive. It ran fine, until it decided to cook it's E unit on me that is.... Would I be able to slap it's shell on one of the newer Lionchief U36bs or are there some differences between the old and new frames? I've currently got it's shell sitting on a conventional GP-38's chassis so this isn't super urgent but figured I'd ask for the heck of it.

@breezinup posted:

During the LTI period, the Service Station engines were pretty much the same as the normal production engines, not cheap starter set locos. Picking up a LionChief Plus version of the D&H RS-3 seems like a good idea to get upgraded features like command and cruise.

The RS3 that came with the set isn’t bad, but not great either.  Plastic trucks, cheap can motors, lightweight.  As mentioned earlier I also have the Great Lakes Express, with the 2-6-4 engine.  Again, it’s ok but not great.  Runs with a lot of gear noise and the lightweight tender has a sticky coupler.  Both sets have nice cars with die-cast trucks and good graphics.  

Thinking about it now, though, those were the engines Lionel was offering then.  Most diesels were the motor-in-truck variety, and they had several 2-6-4 steamers for separate sale.  They weren’t cheap, either.  For a “good” diesel, you had to step up to the dual-pullmor SD40 or a bit later, the GE Dash 8’s.  A step up in steam power was probably the various 2-8-4 and 4-8-4’s they produced… and I think some of those had their own problems.

Hi Guys, this is a super great thread!!  I still work full time and am always late and a dollar short to these parties.  This got me thinking about the set that got me back into the hobby, the Famous America Railroad #3 the Great Northern from 1981.  The 4-8-4 engine and five cars were sold separately and did not come in a set box.

They engine and cars are back in their boxes, so all I have is pictures of the engine box.  It is a majestic running engine and has the "Electronic Mighty Sound of Steam" in the Tender.   

So, in previous threads about the Sound of Steam it has been pointed out, that the foam insulation that protects the board from the tender's metal frame degrades over time and eventually causes the board to short out because the underside of the board will touch the metal frame. The board is difficult, if not impossible to find.     I have been putting off repairing this problem before it happens to my set, until this thread started.  Last time I ran the engine was five years ago. Sure enough, the foam insulation was bad.  It was not evident until I took the board off the frame, it was a mess, I have cleaned it up. I think this exists in multiple tenders, for different road names.

Here are a few pictures:

Below is a close up, the foam was probably 3/16th inch thick at some point, but it was just pile of dust with rubber membranes when I cleaned it. I have some thick double sided foam tape that I will use as a replacement.  I should be good to go for another 40 years! 

Mark Holmgren, I agree that much of the MPC trains were low quality, especially the first few years.  Even some of the higher end stuff with the cheezy snap off pickup rollers, plastic drive gears, and non repairable power trucks.  And the poor quality probably soured some kids on Lionel as a result.  In your case, I wouldn't hesitate to put weights in the cars or even swap out the plastic wheel sets with the all metal wheel sets.  Those things can always be reversed.

But MPC did keep Lionel afloat and ultimately produced some higher quality trains as well as some not so great train sets.  I didn't get back into trains until 1988 or so.  I missed the bulk of the MPC period.  And I learned quickly what to stay away from.  So most of my purchases of MPC were things that were already issued and had peer reviews on.  I guess I dodged the bullet in a sense.

Still your first train will always be your first and have significant charm and memories.  Enjoy

Some other MPC items (mostly) 

For this display shelf, the tracks are powered so they cars will light up.  The set on the bottom is a Northern Pacific service station special. 

A shelf of MPC boxes, (not sure how those red dot sight boxes got in the picture, sorry). 

More MPC boxes. I am trying to emulate Jim Sutter. LOL

On my small 0-27 layout, I have a sectioned devoted to porthole cabooses. 

Another display shelf of MPC box cars with cabooses in the back.  I use some 0-27 rails as an end-stop to keep the cars on the shelf, in case we get an earthquake, which happens from time to time in the Pacific Northwest. It has been a long time since one happened so, I should have not said anything.

This is a lot of fun!  Best, Dave

Brewman 1973,
Enjoyed looking at all your freight cars. Do you have the non-powered Northern Pacific diesel that matches your service station set? I believe the number was #8668.

I think Lionel should rerun all their tobacco cars, all the pop cars and all the billboard reefers. I would also love to see them make any new pop, candy, beer, tobacco, food product cars that are very colorful. Examples Maxwell House Coffee, Starbucks Coffee, Nestles Quick Chocolate Drink, Grape Crush, Dad's Old Fashion Root Beer, Hires Root beer, Blue Buffalo Dog Food, Del Monte or Libby's can Peaches, Betty Crocker and Duncan Hines cake mixes.   

Excuse the flash, MPC EMD Erie Lackawannas

PRRick, is the "B" unit MUd to the Pacific to help keep that excursion train moving?

"I really need to stop!!!"  Har har hardee har har!

Patrick B, the MPC shell probably attached to frame with screws through both ends whereas current production seems to connect shells to chassis with screws up through the chassis into bolsters (bosses) on the inside of the shells.

@jim sutter posted:

I think Lionel should rerun all their tobacco cars,... beer, tobacco...

You would need ID to purchase these items and they would have to be labeled as non-toy collectibles.

@ADCX Rob posted:

You would need ID to purchase these items and they would have to be labeled as non-toy collectibles.

MTH sells beer cars with no such labeling.

@breezinup posted:

This Black River Freight set was a very inexpensive basic 0-27 starter set. Even the steam engine is made of plastic, not heavy diecast metal like most Lionel engines. That is a big reason it doesn't track very well. The cars are small and very light, with fixed couplers - as basic as you can get.  It was really made for small children as a starter set, so you shouldn't expect a lot out of it. The majority of MPC sets that have been discussed here are in a completely different league.

Perhaps, but the set I described is very much of the same make-up, including some identically built (though differently liveried) rolling stock.  And yet I did not have that problem.  For example, I have found that track assembled carefully on a hard surface or even screwed down to a board is a very important step toward reliable operations with the cheaper rolling stock (though it will always benefit even the best).  Even my plastic-wheeled, light-as-a-feather hopper tracked reliably for me.

Anecdotal evidence is hardly conclusive, but broad-brushing obscures the wide variability in circumstances, leading to the inaccurate generalizations that have damaged MPC's reputation.

@jim sutter posted:

Brewman 1973,
Enjoyed looking at all your freight cars. Do you have the non-powered Northern Pacific diesel that matches your service station set? I believe the number was #8668.

Hi Jim, Yes I Do!  It has a prominent spot on the "wall of fame" in my large train room.  The upper and lower shelves are MPC Boxes mainly with the 9700 series of boxcars.  Both of my granddads worked for the Northern Pacific Railroad, so it is my favorite railroad. 

Brewman1973, so glad you have the matching Northern Pacific non-powered diesel.

@ADCX Rob posted:

You would need ID to purchase these items and they would have to be labeled as non-toy collectibles.

Hi Rob, that is what Lionel is doing with the Budweiser items that they have cataloged over the last few years. The box has the "FOR AGES 21 OR OLDER" on it.  The catalog has similar language.  The reefers have the look and feel as the MPC era cars with upgraded trucks.  Kind of funny, while I am Brewman" I rarely drink, and when I do it is usually vino.  The set is more of shout out to the Clydesdales, rather than beer.  I did not have any MPC beer cars, but have added a few now, so in a way this has helped the MPC secondary market.     

Well, I don't have one of the "top of the line" sets, but this one is still fully intact including a fair amount of "paper" goods that they packed inside.  It also has a plain cardboard inner cover to protect the trains, which is something that I did not find in my other sets.

So here is the Wabash Cannonball set from 1970-72