Push - Pull passenger services

Pretty sure that the C&NW, Milwaukee Road, and CB&Q started doing it in the late 1950s or early 1960s.

NJT uses push-pull on some commutorlines, but with one locomotive.

A beefed up end car with equipped the controls is used in the "push" direction.

Push-pull trains on British Railways go way back to the steam era.

I've thought it would be fun to have a push-pull passenger train in O-gauge with identical diesel units on each end.

http://www.britishrailways.inf...20LOCO%20WORKING.htm 

Push-pull operation:

In this system, some of the locomotive controls were linked mechanically to a control set in the autocar/driving trailer of a push-pull steam passenger train for use by the driver when the train was being propelled. The L.M.S. and L.N.E.R. favoured a system which gave the minimum of controls in the driving trailer, namely a communicating bell (to the fireman), a vacuum brake valve which could close the regulator and a linkage to the whistle. In the G.W.R. auto-trains, all routine operations could be carried out by the driver and locomotives were provided with two regulator operating rods to front and rear buffer beams for 'sandwich' operation. The S.R. adopted the L.B.S.C.R. system which used compressed air from the Westinghouse pump to operate the control linkage.

Push-pull trains were developed by the G.W.R. after 1905 and these progressively replaced the steam railcars (which last ran in 1935), in which the locomotive and passenger car were integrated into one unit. The last regular scheduled push-pull service was that between Seaton (L.M.R.) and Stamford in 1965.

Thanks guys

I think that is how I will set up my train. 

Jim

I don't think any railroad in the US made a practice of putting a locomotive at each end of a passenger train in the 1950's.

C&NW, (I think was the 1st road to do it) Milwaukee and Burlington were locomotive on the outbound end and a cab car on the inbound end of commuter trains.  The "Q" started push-pull operation in 1965 with acquisition of 6 cab-equipped gallery cars.

Rusty

The Central Railroad of New Jersey operated its Newark Branch from Jersey City to Newark. The line had a fair amount of passenger traffic as it served the industrial are in Kearney NJ and there were significant commuters to this area in World War 2.

 In February 1946, a coal collier ran into the Hackensack River Drawbridge on the line demolishing two spans on the bridge. To Maintain service following the accident, the CNJ began operating shuttle trains from Newark to Kearney and from Jersey City to West Side Avenue just east of the river. The railroad was pretty much still steam operated at this time and since there were no turn around facilities for the locomotives on either side of the damaged bridge, the shuttle trains were two coaches with a Steam locomotive , Camelbacks I believe at each end . The railroad operated this service on both sides of the Bridge until October 1946 when the line was officially abandoned between West Side avenue and Jersey City. The Newark side continued to run for some time after October 1946. That is probably the first " Push Pull operation here in the Northeast.

Yeah I believe the C&NW started with push/pull operations in 1960.

I don't know when it started but the Reading did with train from Reading to Philly. I do it all the time with my ACL E-7's

Yep. that train was flanked with 2 of the 3 remaining FP7A's (900, 902, 903). It comprised 2000-series semistreamlined ("blimp") coaches and the last standard coach on the Reading, 1547. After SEPTA acquired Philly-Reading-Pottsville passenger service, this train was repainted in SEPTA colors.

I believe the Illinois Central had a steam engine with a high mount rear facing headlight on the tender to back up commuter trains into the station in downtown Chicago.

The LIRR began push pull operations in the early 1970's when it acquired a group of Alco FA's from various rrs . Initially ,these locomotives retained their prime movers to provide HEP for electric coaches becoming available as the new M-1s were placed in service. These units had traction motors removed but retained cab controls and were generally on the West End of the train while an ALCO C420 was at the East End providing traction power . Later , the Alco units had their prime movers replaced with "sleds", a prepackaged Diesel -Generator set on a frame. In the 1980s, there were 2 F-7s and 2-F-9s done this way also.There were some METRA E-8s borrowed in the 1980s and used on LIRR trains as well.

The LIRR also had a group of Bar-Generator cars which had a compartment with the diesel- electric power pack in it and a bar in the remaining section as well as a homemade HEP car that looked sort of like a B Unit. These were used in Diesel hauled trains for HEP but not push pull.

Today, The railroad still operates its diesel trains in Push Pull configuration using modern dual mode diesels on the East End and double decker cars equipped with cab controls at the West End. Two diesels may be used for long trains with a unit at each end. These trains are dual mode so they can run in to Penn station from Diesel Territory. No Change at Jamaica for these riders.

I wonder if there were any regular-operation steam-powered push-pull trains in the USA? Besides the CNJ shuttle train mentioned earlier. Probably not?

Steam-power push-pull trains were actually fairly common in England, for local and branchline trains, using special "driving coaches".

Ace

During the age of steam, the passenger trains were run by the railroads.

The Railroads generally built first class passenger terminals including wyes and turntables to spin the locomotive.

Now that government runs these trains, not much left after funding airports and highways. Some towns get a trailer and potapotty for station facillities.

Thanks guys.  Maybe my train will be an early "experiment".  But giving it more thought I really should just run it normally since I do have a wye to turn my train after  I make my passenger drop off.  

I recall seeing a video shot in the 50's of a Norfolk and western Coal train coming down a branch to the mainline. There was an articulated locomotive,probably a Y class at each end . The engine at the rear of the train was turned in the opposite direction of travel . The pair would take empties back up the branch after the loads were delivered to the main  . Placing the locomotives this way avoided having to turn the engines at the end of the run which saved time and allowed more trips during the day.

Don't they use diesels on each end of locals on the south end of the NEC so there is a loco at each end to quicken switching?

Push-pull or bi-directional trains are the modern way to expedite train turnaround times for more frequent service!

Dominic

You may be correct about train configuration at the Southern end of the NEC, Your comment did remind of the push pull operations on the Northern end of the corridor. The CNJ was the first to do it with cab cars converted from coaches . I think these came about in the 60's when the Aldene plan was put into effect which routed CNJ trains into Newark Penn Station on the NEC. Today, NJT operates electric push pulls on the corridor and on other NJT lines with an electric loco on one end and a cab control car at the other. On Non Electric lines out of Hoboken, some trains operate with a diesel at both ends. 

Unless you are trying to completely replicate a prototype, it seems to me that you could take license here and run an E7 on each end.  If it isn't going to affect placement of structures, track or scenery, then it is easy enough to alter your operations later.

I was posing about local freights.

Dominich

I didn't realize you were speaking of Freight operations. I cant speak for certain about that but on the LIRR, all New York & Atlantic Freights are powered with two powered locomotives irrespective of train length and tonnage.I think the reason is to protect the schedule in the event of an engine malfunction while en-route and i could see that as a concern on the corridor as well in the area you mention.

In recent years it's not unusual to see freights with locos on the end of the train, as in this photo. Push-pull in the same train at the same time. It could be an easy trick for running trains on a point-to-point model railroad with stub-end yards.

Eugene Oregon 2003. The end of a train with distributed power,

headed south to Cascade Summit and beyond.

Also, by having a loco at each end makes facing point sidings much easier to handle.  No need to run around the train, which saves time.

Stuart

Norfolk Southern has a diesel (usually a GEEP) at each end of local freight trains passing through Hazleton, PA. As Dominic and Stuart posted, this facilitates setting out and picking up cars. Not strictly push-pull, but it looks the same.

I know that some of the Class 424 4-8-0s of Hungary were also fitted for push-pull commuter service.

It seem most European equipment, both British and Continental, historic and modern, commuter and long-distance, has always been more bidirectional than American equipment.  Moving the engine to the other end (of course, express tender engines got turned) was pretty much the most you had to do. Over here, not just engines, but passenger cars such as combines and observation cars (especially our O27 versions with a coupler at only one end) are usually designed to operate in one direction only, making stub-end terminal operations somewhat more difficult.

I know the London, Brighton, & South Coast Railway used 0-6-0T's in urban commuter service.  If you or someone wanted to model a steam-era commuter push-pull line, if it's built to British standards, you could possibly use the Lionel Docksider 0-6-0T, although though in real life there would be factors to consider, such as driver size, and the cylinders being inside/outside the frame. 

Didn't at least one manufacture make an American 4-6-4T?

Aaron

K-line ?

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/9173459939025986

I think that's it.  Looks like it's actually a 2-6-6T.  Those would probably be the best choice that I know of for such service... assuming the front coupler operates (doesn't look like it does from this pic).

Actually its a 4-6-6T.  While used in commuter service the train was not run push-pull style.  The locomotive was run around the train at each end of the run.

Stuart

In real life, CNJ class H1s were 4-6-4T locos. I guess K-Line's version was a 4-6-6T. Boston & Albany had 4-6-6T locos.

I hadn't previously known that there was an American 2-6-6T loco:

http://www.railarchive.net/nyccollection/ba306.htm

In 1906, the Boston & Albany received an order of 2-6-6T tank engines from the American Locomotive Company, the rear six-wheel truck supporting the coal bunker and water tank. No. 306 was a member of this class L-3.

If a modeller wanted to be creative, any suburban tank loco might be adapted to push-pull operation with a suitable "control car" on the end of the train.

Tri-rail in south Florida from West Palm Beach to Miami uses a version of push-pull with their commutor trains, a diesel engine on the south end and reverse operation going northbound. Also a two track mainline between WPB and Miami on CSX line so the trains will pass each other instead of having to wait at a siding, commutor trains need to be on time, three bombardier two level passenger coaches. On weekends two diesel engines on each train, engines are double headed and not at each end.

Lee F.

The Hudson Valley Line of Metro North Commuter RR uses a Genesis locomotive on the north end to push into Grand Central Terminal in NYC from Poughkeepsie. The trackage north of Croton Harmon is not electrified so a dual mode diesel-electric is necessary. Before the Genesis acquisition, Metro North used vintage EMD FL9's to accomplish the same thing, some of which were painted in legacy roadnames. The crew looks happy.

That's really cool to see an FL9 in the old NYC scheme. Metro-North also had one in New Haven colors:

 Metro-North oficially retired all remaining FL-9s in 2009.

" that train was flanked with 2 of the 3 remaining FP7A's (900, 902, 903). It comprised 2000-series semistreamlined ("blimp") coaches and the last standard coach on the Reading, 1547. After SEPTA acquired Philly-Reading-Pottsville passenger service, this train was repainted in SEPTA colors."

That train, or something similar also ran up the Pottsville branch to Bethlehem in the late 70s or early 80s. If I recall correctly, normal power was a set of 3 RDCs, with the push-pull occasionally substituting. I remember vividly being stopped at the Hellertown crossing on the way home home work one evening. My jaw nearly fell off my face when the push-pull went through. Of course, my camera was at home...

Chris

LVHR

There was more than one in NH livery. Can't find that photo at the moment. I've never seen a lashup as shown in that picture on the Hudson Line, only single locos. It must be the New Haven Line of Metro North judging from the orange stripe on the cars. The Hudson Line usually has blue. However, they do mingle. The second loco is painted for Metro North.