Q: WWYD when Lionel "Upgrade" boards do not exist?

@ThatGuy posted:

But they support the equipment for years not months.

Let's be fair here.  Even though I think it was low class how Lionel yanked all the electronic repair parts off the site, the TMCC products were at least 15 years old, and the early Legacy were 11-12 years old.

Another factor is the HO market is many times the size of the O-scale market, both in numbers and dollars.  That makes it easier to have options because the ROI is there for 3rd party solutions for older equipment.

@redbarchetta81 posted:

I've installed several of these kits . 6-22960, 6-22963. Yes, they were " Command ready ", & " Rail Sounds upgradeable" but for the $$ ( back then ) they were , bland in sounds .  And the TMCC boards do enhance smoke output , but outside of that? An addendum : Be aware that yes, there are TMCC versions out there , they are running in the neighborhood of $250.00-$350.00 range. These are fine locos ( IMO), and represent an early genesis of TMCC . 🚂😀

Well, don't know about the enhanced smoke, or sounds with the 22963 R/S board (just installed 22960 TMCC kits in diesels), but as to "outside of that?," the main draw was that the 22963 gave your engine Command Control, obviously a significant benefit. As to price, a significant number of the older TMCC-equipped engines can be had for under $150.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Let's be fair here.  Even though I think it was low class how Lionel yanked all the electronic repair parts off the site, the TMCC products were at least 15 years old, and the early Legacy were 11-12 years old.

Another factor is the HO market is many times the size of the O-scale market, both in numbers and dollars.  That makes it easier to have options because the ROI is there for 3rd party solutions for older equipment.

Quoted for emphasis/agreement.  It was not a good look how Lionel pulled all the boards.  That being said there are still many repair options out there, and saying that Lionel doesn’t support the products is a little dramatic.  I read the same stuff here about MTH from time to time and it is overplayed - Mike Reagan was at York and it didn’t look like a fly by night operation.   At the same time, if you feel that strongly about it, the avoid buying the product.  If enough people agree with you, the business will have to adapt you your preference.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Let's be fair here.  Even though I think it was low class how Lionel yanked all the electronic repair parts off the site, the TMCC products were at least 15 years old, and the early Legacy were 11-12 years old.

Another factor is the HO market is many times the size of the O-scale market, both in numbers and dollars.  That makes it easier to have options because the ROI is there for 3rd party solutions for older equipment.

John, you’re absolutely correct. My beef with lionel now is the fact that what they do is obsolete everything we’ve never made it do not send it to us we cannot help you go away. That’s not how it works and other industries in model trains I have called Walters, I have called Broadway Limited, and even a train or an engine that is many many years out of production. They will help me or they will come up with some type of a solution. That’s what’s missing with Lionel.

btw I also never believe the storyline we can’t get the parts they stop making this or that IC so we can no longer build it. While this is factually, correct it’s also factually a lie because there are plenty of replacement parts that can step in and be used. Case in point the cab 2 Lionel will tell you they cannot get the parts for, this is absolutely correct. But instead of using a monochrome board, the replacement board is now color. I took one of my handheld to a close friend who does government work in building electronics. he opened up the cab 2 remote made note of everything that is on the control board, some things are no longer available, but there are replacements. It’s just a matter of wanting to support the consumer past the sale..

Sounds like we're pretty much on the same page.

@ThatGuy posted:

John, you’re absolutely correct. My beef with lionel now is the fact that what they do is obsolete everything we’ve never made it do not send it to us we cannot help you go away. That’s not how it works and other industries in model trains I have called Walters, I have called Broadway Limited, and even a train or an engine that is many many years out of production. They will help me or they will come up with some type of a solution. That’s what’s missing with Lionel.

btw I also never believe the storyline we can’t get the parts they stop making this or that IC so we can no longer build it. While this is factually, correct it’s also factually a lie because there are plenty of replacement parts that can step in and be used. Case in point the cab 2 Lionel will tell you they cannot get the parts for, this is absolutely correct. But instead of using a monochrome board, the replacement board is now color. I took one of my handheld to a close friend who does government work in building electronics. he opened up the cab 2 remote made note of everything that is on the control board, some things are no longer available, but there are replacements. It’s just a matter of wanting to support the consumer past the sale..

You knocked it out of the park That Guy. They only care about selling new trains.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sounds like we're pretty much on the same page.

Great minds think alike.

@Ray Lombardo posted:

Quoted for emphasis/agreement.  It was not a good look how Lionel pulled all the boards.  That being said there are still many repair options out there, and saying that Lionel doesn’t support the products is a little dramatic.  I read the same stuff here about MTH from time to time and it is overplayed - Mike Reagan was at York and it didn’t look like a fly by night operation.   At the same time, if you feel that strongly about it, the avoid buying the product.  If enough people agree with you, the business will have to adapt you your preference.

All I can say is try to get help on an older engine…….see what the response from Lionel is then call any HO manufacturer with an older engine and see the difference. It’s service after the sale that guarantees the customer will return.

@ThatGuy posted:

All I can say is try to get help on an older engine…….see what the response from Lionel is then call any HO manufacturer with an older engine and see the difference. It’s service after the sale that guarantees the customer will return.

I understand, but if it were me my first stop with an older locomotive would be a service station.  I am happy to hear the support is good in HO.

@ThatGuy posted:

You hit the big Canary in the room. Lionel could care less, in HO companies want you back and support their equipment for many many years. People will also tell you it is what it is……….if people stopped shelling out 2 grand and more for what will be the next door stop Lionel will take note…this will never happen.

I'm watching the DCC conversations. Also Alan is putting out an article on battery operated systems. Either could be a replacement for blown boards.

Really though a low cost conventional board that controls the horn, bell, led lights, directional headlights would probably be just fine. This would free you from the manufacturer period.

Breezinup,

Great read there on what I said regarding price, of course my main source has been " on estate sell bay". They tend to get a hold of something that tells them how much to inflate the price .😂  I have bought a couple for $150.00 that unknowingly (to me),  were already TMCC / RS equipped 😀🚂

@ChiTown Steve posted:

I'm watching the DCC conversations. Also Alan is putting out an article on battery operated systems. Either could be a replacement for blown boards.

Really though a low cost conventional board that controls the horn, bell, led lights, directional headlights would probably be just fine. This would free you from the manufacturer period.

That not what the hobby needs, that’s how we landed up here…..two systems and little support.

what do you say to the guy who might have over a hundred engines? Tough luck, you’ll have to convert to a third system.

@ThatGuy posted:

That not what the hobby needs, that’s how we landed up here…..two systems and little support.

what do you say to the guy who might have over a hundred engines? Tough luck, you’ll have to convert to a third system.

Exactly the situation I find myself in.  I'm way to old to start over now!

@ThatGuy posted:

That not what the hobby needs, that’s how we landed up here…..two systems and little support.

what do you say to the guy who might have over a hundred engines? Tough luck, you’ll have to convert to a third system.

I'm not talking about converting every engine someone owns. I'm just talking about a simple fix as fail approach to prevent me from tossing engines into the garbage when the board blows and there is no replacement.

@ChiTown Steve posted:

I'm not talking about converting every engine someone owns. I'm just talking about a simple fix as fail approach to prevent me from tossing engines into the garbage when the board blows and there is no replacement.

Well, today if a TMCC or early Legacy engine failed and I couldn't get the electronics to get it back on the rails, I'd probably consider converting it to either Legacy or PS/3.  Both of those options are still alive and well.