Question About Bells - Red Paint?

I sure don't remember the insides of any bells being painted red, back in the regular steam days.

I wasn't around...many excursion engines I've seen have the bell painted red. See below photos... hence the reason I'm asking.

Just a few examples...

Volunteer labor at work.

Here in the marine, antique boat restoration field, we routinely paint the inside of bells and ventilators(cowl vents) a Persian red, that is not as loud as say fire engine red. maybe a carry over.

Thank you both. Much appreciated.

I'm not sure the Smithsonian would have done something not reflected in the historical record somewhere, especially when John White was in charge. Notice the headlight visor is also red:

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I sure don't remember the insides of any bells being painted red, back in the regular steam days.

I can't vouch for how common it was, but, it certainly wasn't unheard of. Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe so that laborers wouldn't have to polish the inside of the bell. Maybe they thought it looked nice.

Note - This picture was taken before late 1941 as the lettering is on the side of the cab and not the tender.

I have heard that they may have been painted red to act as a visual warning too. As the bell would swing, you would see the red flash, catching your eye.

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Originally posted by NJCJOE:
I have heard that they may have been painted red to act as a visual warning too. As the bell would swing, you would see the red flash, catching your eye.

Thats interesting Joe. I would have never thought about that but it does make sense but still leaves open engines, such as the UP 844 and (what looks like) Southern 1401 with air operated clappers and non-swinging bells. Perhaps the red paint serves many purposes?

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Perhaps the red paint serves many purposes?

It looks cool?

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It looks cool?

No! If they wanted it to look "Cool", they would have painted the inside Blue.
Red makes it look "HOT"!

That's just your OPINION!

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Volunteer labor at work.

I'm curious as to why you would insinuate that it was Volunteers?

"Ring Ring goes the bell" , or should that be "HOT HOT HOT"?

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I'm curious as to why you would insinuate that it was Volunteers?

If you will go back up the thread, you will see that I was referring to the two photos posted of 844 and 3751, both excursion locomotives in the "modern era"!

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I'm curious as to why you would insinuate that it was Volunteers?

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If you will go back up the thread, you will see that I was referring to the two photos posted of 844 and 3751, both excursion locomotives in the "modern era"!

Exactly. Why would you insinuate that it was the volunteer's idea and not prototypical to begin with?

Explain this.

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Exactly. Why would you insinuate that it was the volunteer's idea and not prototypical to begin with?

1) Because I know for a fact that the volunteers did it, no "insinuation" involved.

2) Neither the AT&SF nor the UP regularally painted the insides of their steam locomotive bells red, back in the steam days, i.e regular service.

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Explain this.

Timothy Leary

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Originally posted by NJCJOE:
Explain this.

Ok that's just wrong...

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Originally posted by Hot Water:
2) Neither the AT&SF nor the UP regularally painted the insides of their steam locomotive bells red, back in the steam days, i.e regular service.

I know it's on use on the Pennsy but....

http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=510

The answer is quite simple. Red paint fades rather rapidly in sunlight, therefore the inside of a bell, which is in shade most of the time, is a great place to use it so you don't have to repaint often.

Ed Mullan

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I know it's on use on the Pennsy but....

http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=510

Dang!

And WOW! Just look at that weathering job the Pennsy put on that loco. Looks just like the real thing!

Ed,
Good one.
Thanks for the early morning laugh to get me going before I go to work!

Why did the chicken cross the road?
Just to show the possum it could be done!

Ed,

That was a good one.

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And WOW! Just look at that weathering job the Pennsy put on that loco. Looks just like the real thing!

Except for that unprototypical bell painted red on the inside.

It appears the Santa Fe--as well as a number of other railroads--did indeed paint their bell interiors red. This may have been a more-common practice than thought.

Personally, I just think it looks cool.

It must have been for safety reasons...I mean on that Santa Fe engine I linked to that thing just stands out on the face of that filthy beauty. You can definetly see it swinging. Maybe that visual que for those who can't hear, or perhaps for when it was in the yard areas around several other engines you could see which was ringing, and moving or about to move.?

I'd not be at all surprised to hear that some foreman at Baldwin or Alco in the late 1800's was fond of red and simply left instructions that was the color to use inside bells. 100 years after the fact we are always looking for "real" reasons something like this was done and, often enough, there wasn't a "real" reason.

Curt

Guys,


The answer is as obvious as the nose on our faces!

Everyone knows that sound waves travel slower than light right? Maybe before they heard it they saw the motion of the bell in an approaching train, do you think?

That way engineers (or whoever was observing) could tell whether the train was signaling before they heard it.

Just a guess, maybe it was volunteers (LOL)!

Mike

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Originally posted by juniata guy:
we are always looking for "real" reasons something like this was done and, often enough, there wasn't a "real" reason.

Even a trivial reason would still be a "real" reason...

Or it could have simply been some red lead applied to the inside of cast steel bells. Not all locomotive bells were made of expensive brass or bronze.

Further, steam locos were kept reasonably clean. All that exposed machinery as well as a myriad of leaks to find and fix. They were washed, wiped down, greased and inspected regularly.

So a bell's exterior would be wiped off as well, maybe with some oil and cotton waste. Though perhaps not so much the harder-to-reach inside of the bell, which could be prone to rusting without some sort of protective coating.

Ed Bommer

I, *personally,* have never heard of nor seen a cast iron steam locomotive bell... Modern Locomotive Construction gives the formula for a bell's metal: 4 parts copper to 1 part tin; to every hundred pounds of mixture add 1/2 pound of zinc, and 1/2 pound of lead.

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Originally posted by smd4:
I, *personally,* have never heard of nor seen a cast iron steam locomotive bell... Modern Locomotive Construction gives the formula for a bell's metal: 4 parts copper to 1 part tin; to every hundred pounds of mixture add 1/2 pound of zinc, and 1/2 pound of lead.

Not cast iron, cast STEEL. This was done during WWII because of the need for copper for electrical wiring.

Stuart

I thought NKP 700s had steel bells.

Makes sense. Thanks, Stuart.

Semantics, Steve. I'm sure you understood what I meant.

Curt

Painting bells red inside was done before there were railroads. Many old ship bells were painted red inside. For whatever reason, this practice probably carried over to bells in engines.

I own a steel steam engine bell.

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Originally posted by juniata guy:
Semantics, Steve. I'm sure you understood what I meant.

Curt

I did Curt. Still, it's interesting to see a steel steam locomotive bell (Thanks, NJ Joe). The WWII connection is even more interesting.

So, bells weren't made of steel but for a few years. Matthew Jones' and Galo's observarions about ship bells carry weight. Wonder what other shipwrights have to say about the practice.