Budgerman,
You have a very nice looking watch. It may very well be in a coin silver case, also. I can't imagine repairs costing anywhere near as much as you've mentioned. Will it run at all when you shake it?
Send me an e-mail, and I might be able to help you out on getting it repaired for much less than that.
Thanks Ben! This topic caused me to go look at an Omega Seamaster I bought back around 1971 that's been broken for years. I would like to get it fixed, but I think the price to fix it is going to be twice what I paid for it new 
thanks, ben.
very helpful.
very helpful.
Well...like I said...it looks like it doesn't meet "railroad specs" for a pocket watch, but here is my Waltham that was given to my great-grandfather upon his retirement in 1907, and handed down to me. It says 14K gold on the inside of the push-button cover. Who knows...if I was a railroad man...back in the day...I probably would've gotten in "trouble" for trying to carry this watch.
Cover:
Face:
Inscription behind the cover on the back:
Matt
Cover:
Face:
Inscription behind the cover on the back:
Matt
Ben: I tried your email in your profile and it won't work. Watch is frozen and wound tight the stem will pull out and adjust the hands but that's where it quits. The little gear will turn on the inside but shacking will not make it move. I thought $500 - $800 was a bit much. The serial number is 8107667 and any help you can give will be much appreciated.
I'm dredging up an old topic to post a photo of a recent, interesting acquisition.
This Elgin Grade 164 dates to about 1895, a time when its Roman dial and 3:00 winding would have still been perfectly acceptable. It's a hard to find movement, with a total production of only 4000. It's also an incredibly well finished movement, even on parts which would have only been seen by the watchmaker. It also once had a Geneva stopworks, although this was removed at some point in the past.
This was essentially the equivalent of Elgin's Father Time grade, and thus was accepted for railroad service.
I bought this one cheap needing a roller jewel, and finally got around to tackling it this evening. It's running great now, with a freshly replaced roller jewel and keeping great time.
Here's a shot under the dial, showing the finish(perlage) on the normally unseen parts.
This Elgin Grade 164 dates to about 1895, a time when its Roman dial and 3:00 winding would have still been perfectly acceptable. It's a hard to find movement, with a total production of only 4000. It's also an incredibly well finished movement, even on parts which would have only been seen by the watchmaker. It also once had a Geneva stopworks, although this was removed at some point in the past.
This was essentially the equivalent of Elgin's Father Time grade, and thus was accepted for railroad service.
I bought this one cheap needing a roller jewel, and finally got around to tackling it this evening. It's running great now, with a freshly replaced roller jewel and keeping great time.
Here's a shot under the dial, showing the finish(perlage) on the normally unseen parts.
That is one GORGEOUS watch! They don't make 'em like that any more...or do they?
I have three pocket watches that were given to me as gifts over the years, however I think they are all quartz movements with a battery inside. They are obviously not in the same league as this fine time piece.
I have three pocket watches that were given to me as gifts over the years, however I think they are all quartz movements with a battery inside. They are obviously not in the same league as this fine time piece.
Rich,
Thanks for the complement. This one really caught my eye when I first looked at it. I ended up paying a little more than I normally would have for a non-running 17 jewel watch, but, coupled with the additional rarity and the fact that it's a higher quality movement than I initially thought, it turned out to be a real bargain.
The elaborate demaskeen(the shiny, irridescent decorations) are pretty much unique to American Watches. The equipment is still around to do it, but I don't know if there's anyone with the know-how to run it.
Even high end Swiss watches aren't decorated this well.
I'll have to dig out some Waltham 1883 movements. Although they're fairly common movements, the demaskeen was all done on a special type of rose engine that gave the operator a great deal of freedom in making the patterns. Thus, most have very elaborate patterns, and few are alike.
Thanks for the complement. This one really caught my eye when I first looked at it. I ended up paying a little more than I normally would have for a non-running 17 jewel watch, but, coupled with the additional rarity and the fact that it's a higher quality movement than I initially thought, it turned out to be a real bargain.
The elaborate demaskeen(the shiny, irridescent decorations) are pretty much unique to American Watches. The equipment is still around to do it, but I don't know if there's anyone with the know-how to run it.
Even high end Swiss watches aren't decorated this well.
I'll have to dig out some Waltham 1883 movements. Although they're fairly common movements, the demaskeen was all done on a special type of rose engine that gave the operator a great deal of freedom in making the patterns. Thus, most have very elaborate patterns, and few are alike.
Very ornate watch indeed!
Here are some interesting links:
http://www.goldpocketwatch.org...ilroad-pocket-watch/
From above link:
"On 1880 two trains collided because one of the engineer's watch stopped for about four minutes. Due to this incident a rule was made that railroad workers must have pocket watches that have standard time in all railroad tracks. Thus the birth of railroad pocket watch, also known as standard pocket watch."
Not sure how true the story is. Maybe some historian knows more and can tell us further.
http://www.oldrailroadwatches....all_railroad_watches
Prairie
Here are some interesting links:
http://www.goldpocketwatch.org...ilroad-pocket-watch/
From above link:
"On 1880 two trains collided because one of the engineer's watch stopped for about four minutes. Due to this incident a rule was made that railroad workers must have pocket watches that have standard time in all railroad tracks. Thus the birth of railroad pocket watch, also known as standard pocket watch."
Not sure how true the story is. Maybe some historian knows more and can tell us further.
http://www.oldrailroadwatches....all_railroad_watches
Prairie
I didn't feel as though my above photo did justice to the movement. So, I played around with the lighting some, and reshot it.
Here's another nickel beauty, a Waltham model 1883 of about the same vintage(and quality) as the above.
Here's another nickel beauty, a Waltham model 1883 of about the same vintage(and quality) as the above.
Gentlemen:
I to have my Grandfathers Elgin pocket watch. The case is silver with a Roman numeral dial. It is key wound by opening the back. Face says Elgin State Watch Company and the inter movement states Elgin Natl. Watch Co. I would love to get someone to repair this watch, if possible. Anyone know of a watchmaker or hobbiest, please let me know.
Email in my profile.
Happy memorial day.
Cpl.George Balling USMC
I to have my Grandfathers Elgin pocket watch. The case is silver with a Roman numeral dial. It is key wound by opening the back. Face says Elgin State Watch Company and the inter movement states Elgin Natl. Watch Co. I would love to get someone to repair this watch, if possible. Anyone know of a watchmaker or hobbiest, please let me know.
Email in my profile.
Happy memorial day.
Cpl.George Balling USMC
BtB:
Very interesting thread! I decided to buy a new replica RR pocket watch after reading some of the excellent comments, and looking at some of the photos. I'd love to have a vintage watch, but this will do for now!
Cordially,
Dennis
Very interesting thread! I decided to buy a new replica RR pocket watch after reading some of the excellent comments, and looking at some of the photos. I'd love to have a vintage watch, but this will do for now!
Cordially,
Dennis
Dennis,
All I can offer is to "be careful".
I started out a while back with a cheap quartz pocket watch. About a year ago, I decided that I wanted to get one "real" watch-real meaning a wind-up antique.
What I've posted in this thread is just a small part of my intention to buy "one".
All I can offer is to "be careful".
I started out a while back with a cheap quartz pocket watch. About a year ago, I decided that I wanted to get one "real" watch-real meaning a wind-up antique.
What I've posted in this thread is just a small part of my intention to buy "one".
Ben -
That's very helpful advice -- I'll probably get [pleasantly] "hooked" on these watches myself!
When I have more time, I'll study this excellent thread more closely to pick out the "mini tutorials" on how to find and start to collect these timeless railroad artifacts.
Kudos for starting and continuing an excellent - and novel - "Real Trains" thread!
Cordially,
Dennis
That's very helpful advice -- I'll probably get [pleasantly] "hooked" on these watches myself!
When I have more time, I'll study this excellent thread more closely to pick out the "mini tutorials" on how to find and start to collect these timeless railroad artifacts.Kudos for starting and continuing an excellent - and novel - "Real Trains" thread!
Cordially,
Dennis
Here is a picture of my great grandfathers watch.
Andrew,
Very nice looking watch(with a good Montgomery dial). Thanks for posting.
Is that an Illinois?
Very nice looking watch(with a good Montgomery dial). Thanks for posting.
Is that an Illinois?
These things are sort of addictive. I have a 1918 Hamilton 992. A beautiful watch. That so much effort went into decorating the interior is telling. American craftsmanship at its absolute best...
Steve,
Any pictures of your 992?
992s are very pretty. Although the 992B offers some important technical advances, a whole lot was lost in the decorating department.
I don't have a 992(yet), but an early one is high on my want list. I'm keeping my eyes open for a good, early model with a gold center wheel and gold lettering. Even better would be a 990, which was a step above the 992B.
Along the same lines, here's another very highly decorated watch-a 19 jewel Waltham 14/12 size Riverside grade in a 14K solid gold case. This one is a recent acquisition, a graduation present from my parents.
Any pictures of your 992?
992s are very pretty. Although the 992B offers some important technical advances, a whole lot was lost in the decorating department.
I don't have a 992(yet), but an early one is high on my want list. I'm keeping my eyes open for a good, early model with a gold center wheel and gold lettering. Even better would be a 990, which was a step above the 992B.
Along the same lines, here's another very highly decorated watch-a 19 jewel Waltham 14/12 size Riverside grade in a 14K solid gold case. This one is a recent acquisition, a graduation present from my parents.
Ben, I will try to get some this weekend.quote:Originally posted by ben10ben:
Steve,
Any pictures of your 992?
quote:Originally posted by ben10ben:
Andrew,
Very nice looking watch(with a good Montgomery dial). Thanks for posting.
Is that an Illinois?
I'll try to get some close ups of it to better show the details. Not sure about being an Illinois, my great grandfather worked for the New York, Susquehanna & Western back in the 30's, 40's & 50's.
I still have (and use on special occasions) my Hamilton 992B. A gift from my wife on our wedding day...bought new nearly 41 years ago. Both watch and marriage are still tickin'.
Inspected by Marcus Jewelers both in Jersey City and Hoboken, NJ...still have the inspection cards.
I never could get used to wristwatches in use on the railroad.
Walter M. Matuch
Inspected by Marcus Jewelers both in Jersey City and Hoboken, NJ...still have the inspection cards.
I never could get used to wristwatches in use on the railroad.
Walter M. Matuch
quote:Originally posted by ben10ben:
Andrew,
Very nice looking watch(with a good Montgomery dial). Thanks for posting.
Is that an Illinois?
Yep, it's an Illinois. Here are some close up's of it.
And this pin is attached to the chain.
Very nice.
That's a model 9 A. Lincoln, made in about 1917.
The A. Lincoln was a superb watch-a step below the top grade Bunn special, but none the less extremely well finished. I've worked on a model 9 Lincoln(pictured earlier in the thread), and was very impressed with the quality of it.
The A. Lincoln was a direct competitor with Hamilton's 992-both were similarly priced at the time, and had similar features(21 jewels, 5 positions, gold center wheel, etc).
That's a model 9 A. Lincoln, made in about 1917.
The A. Lincoln was a superb watch-a step below the top grade Bunn special, but none the less extremely well finished. I've worked on a model 9 Lincoln(pictured earlier in the thread), and was very impressed with the quality of it.
The A. Lincoln was a direct competitor with Hamilton's 992-both were similarly priced at the time, and had similar features(21 jewels, 5 positions, gold center wheel, etc).
Certainly one of the more interesting subbjects on the list. Plenty of pix well done. And most statements are true, was not going to nit pick?
SOURCES?----Suggest EBay in spite of some negatives. Having approx 50 PW many from eBay. Perhaps a dozen are English or otherwise foreign, the english being .935 sterling of course. And think all thy are of the fusee movement which uses a minute chain to power the movement. This was supposed to give better starting/timing due to the increased torque of trhe chain on a small dia shaft, the torque tapering as the watch ran.... However it appeared that there was no advantage and it disappeared in perhaps 35 years.
As to returns of PW bought on eBay, I had returned approx 5 of 50 (yes 50) All returned in same container and full refund, this was from several sellers both in US and overseas. Shipping done either in well padded boxes fully insured or what I consider a cadillac, about a 4 x 7 x 2 box of very durable cardboard which has two bonded layers of a flexible plastic. Hence the watch floats in suspension between the two halves!
Prices rose dramatically from 12+ yrs ago when I bot many of these. Items then at $125 for gf cased items now appear to be 2 to 3x that price, and this is NOT solid gold of course.
Those wanting further info rfefer to the NAWCC website,
http://mb.nawcc.org/index.php
enjoy
more later-L
Bens watch is of course a Sidewinder, being a movement for a watch case that has a front protective metal face and you press the winder to pop it open. So his watch is a combination of two types, a standard open face case in a hunter case.
Lars in Michigan
SOURCES?----Suggest EBay in spite of some negatives. Having approx 50 PW many from eBay. Perhaps a dozen are English or otherwise foreign, the english being .935 sterling of course. And think all thy are of the fusee movement which uses a minute chain to power the movement. This was supposed to give better starting/timing due to the increased torque of trhe chain on a small dia shaft, the torque tapering as the watch ran.... However it appeared that there was no advantage and it disappeared in perhaps 35 years.
As to returns of PW bought on eBay, I had returned approx 5 of 50 (yes 50) All returned in same container and full refund, this was from several sellers both in US and overseas. Shipping done either in well padded boxes fully insured or what I consider a cadillac, about a 4 x 7 x 2 box of very durable cardboard which has two bonded layers of a flexible plastic. Hence the watch floats in suspension between the two halves!
Prices rose dramatically from 12+ yrs ago when I bot many of these. Items then at $125 for gf cased items now appear to be 2 to 3x that price, and this is NOT solid gold of course.
Those wanting further info rfefer to the NAWCC website,
http://mb.nawcc.org/index.php
enjoy
more later-L
Bens watch is of course a Sidewinder, being a movement for a watch case that has a front protective metal face and you press the winder to pop it open. So his watch is a combination of two types, a standard open face case in a hunter case.
Lars in Michigan
quote:This was supposed to give better starting/timing due to the increased torque of trhe chain on a small dia shaft, the torque tapering as the watch ran.... However it appeared that there was no advantage and it disappeared in perhaps 35 years.
Fusees were a common feature of English watches, and they were around for a lot longer than 35 years.
They were required for verge escapement watches to get anything nearing respectable timekeeping. After the lever escapement was perfected, the English continued using. The fusee was in common use(in English watches) from about 1720 up through as late as 1880 or so.
Even after that, it was still used in really high precision spring-driven applications-like marine chronometers. The WWII-era Hamilton 21, by all respects the most accurate and precise mechanical chronometer ever made, used a fusee.
Since you mentioned it, though, here's my one fusee watch-dating to the 1780s
Great watch Ben
Right you are on the 35 yrs being WRONG!!!!
also
JUMP to this link for more info and pix on the fusee movement and the TINY chain that drives same.
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...53102703/m/594102124
ENJOY
and jump to http://mb.nawcc.org/index.php
and search out the meaning of 'adjustments'.
Average PW or low end has 3,
medium grade 5
approved RR grade after 'the accident' outside Cleveland
believe its 9?
L
Right you are on the 35 yrs being WRONG!!!!
also
JUMP to this link for more info and pix on the fusee movement and the TINY chain that drives same.
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...53102703/m/594102124
ENJOY
and jump to http://mb.nawcc.org/index.php
and search out the meaning of 'adjustments'.
Average PW or low end has 3,
medium grade 5
approved RR grade after 'the accident' outside Cleveland
believe its 9?
L
By 1996 I had around 450 PW's in my collection so I studied for several years under the guidance of a master watchmaker. I fixed over 250 of them and made part boxes out of the rest of them. Here are a few of them.
Starting at 12 noon and going clockwise (#13 is in the middle)
All of these watches are, of course, lever set except the Ball 12 size
1. Ball(Waltham) 16 size 21jewel
2. Ball 12 size 17j
3. Hamilton 16s 950 23j
4. Hamilton 18s 940 21j
5. Hamilton 16s 992 21j
6. Hamilton 16s 992B 21j
7. Illinois 18s Bunn Special 21j
8. Illinois 16s Bunn Special 60 hour 21j
9. Illinois 16s Abe Lincoln 21j
10. Elgin 18s 21j
11. Elgin 16s B W Raymond 21j
12. Waltham 16s Riverside 21j
13. Ball 18s 17j
There were numerous American watch companies that handmade over 110,000,000 watches from the 1850's to the 1950's. Other excellent companies were Columbus, South Bend, Howard, U S Watch Co, Aurora, Dudley, Hampden, Seth Thomas and finally my personal favorites, the Illinois Watch Co and the Rockford Watch Co. I try to keep my PW's accurate within 30-60 seconds per month. That is what was required by the railroads. Pretty amazing for mechanical watches. So, People, throw away those battery powered plastic things that are attached to your wrists and get a RR grade PW that you actually interact with! (sorry about this dangling participle)
mellotronko
Makin' time along the Monon, the Hoosier Line!!
Starting at 12 noon and going clockwise (#13 is in the middle)
All of these watches are, of course, lever set except the Ball 12 size
1. Ball(Waltham) 16 size 21jewel
2. Ball 12 size 17j
3. Hamilton 16s 950 23j
4. Hamilton 18s 940 21j
5. Hamilton 16s 992 21j
6. Hamilton 16s 992B 21j
7. Illinois 18s Bunn Special 21j
8. Illinois 16s Bunn Special 60 hour 21j
9. Illinois 16s Abe Lincoln 21j
10. Elgin 18s 21j
11. Elgin 16s B W Raymond 21j
12. Waltham 16s Riverside 21j
13. Ball 18s 17j
There were numerous American watch companies that handmade over 110,000,000 watches from the 1850's to the 1950's. Other excellent companies were Columbus, South Bend, Howard, U S Watch Co, Aurora, Dudley, Hampden, Seth Thomas and finally my personal favorites, the Illinois Watch Co and the Rockford Watch Co. I try to keep my PW's accurate within 30-60 seconds per month. That is what was required by the railroads. Pretty amazing for mechanical watches. So, People, throw away those battery powered plastic things that are attached to your wrists and get a RR grade PW that you actually interact with! (sorry about this dangling participle)
mellotronko
Makin' time along the Monon, the Hoosier Line!!
quote:approved RR grade after 'the accident' outside Cleveland
believe its 9?
RR grade requirements changed over the years. Originally, it was only to temperature. Sometime along the way, 3 positions(Dial up, Dial down, Stem up) became the requirement. Along about 1906 or so, 5 positions(adding stem left and stem right) were added to the requirements.
Most later RR grade watches, including the 992B, were adjusted to all 6 positions.
Most better grade watches will be marked "adjusted to x positions and temperature"(or some variant thereof). Some will also only carry the position marking, and it's assumed that they're also adjusted to temperature(which is much easier than positional adjustments).
There are two temperature adjustments-hot and cold-and some watches will add the number of temperature adjustments to the number of position adjustments. This is where the marking of "8 Adjustment" comes from.
There's also an adjustment to isochronism, or making sure the watch keeps time the same regardless of the amount of wind on the mainspring. The most common method for this is through the use of a Breguet overcoil, although some(especially better) watches use a stopworks. The stopworks restricts the watch to only using the middle part of the mainspring, where the power is most even.
Watch adjusting is an art, and a complicated one at that. It can involve carefully shaping the balance pivots(about the diameter of a human hair) and making alterations to the hairspring. Back in the day, adjusting was responsible for most of the cost of a high-grade watch.
mellotron,
That sounds like a very nice collection with some great watches in it. I'm rather partial to Illinois watches my self, although at the moment the only one I have is a cheapie(11 jewel) Getty model.
I'm not seeing your photo, though.
That sounds like a very nice collection with some great watches in it. I'm rather partial to Illinois watches my self, although at the moment the only one I have is a cheapie(11 jewel) Getty model.
I'm not seeing your photo, though.
quote:Originally posted by ben10ben:
mellotron,
That sounds like a very nice collection with some great watches in it. I'm rather partial to Illinois watches my self, although at the moment the only one I have is a cheapie(11 jewel) Getty model.
I'm not seeing your photo, though.
Years ago on fleabay I saw the most gorgeous Appleton Tracy LVRR pocketwatch. Can't remember the number of jewels, but it was silver cased, original enameled face with the LVRR flag and oak leaves in red/blk/aqua. I'm sure it dated from the late 1800's and it was several thousand bucks and at the time it was over my budget. Never saw one like it again.
from NAWACC
High grade watches built after 1905-1908 may be marked with specific adjustments. This is especially true for watches intended for use in railroad time service.
Adjustment to Temperature-----------
This is sometimes referred to as adjustment to heat and cold. It requires a temperature compensated balance. The balance has pairs of screws (180 degrees apart) set into the rim.
Adjustment to Position----------------
The next level is adjustment to position. This is adjustment to maintain the same rate of balance (wheel) oscillation, regardless of which of the specified positions the watch is in. There are a total of six positions. Unfortunately, the number or the positions to which the watch is adjusted isn't specified for most watches built prior to 1905-1908. Typically, unspecified adjustment to position means adjustment to three positions, but there are a number of instances in which it means five positions. Adjustment to three positions most likely means stem up, stem at the 3 o'clock position and stem at the 9 o'clock position.
Watches adjusted to five positions include the three positions of stem up, stem at the 3 o'clock position and stem at the 9 o'clock position, plus the dial up and dial down positions
Further-------------"The Tariff Act of 1930 has fees associated with watches of varying adjustments with a possibility of 9 total adjustments as follows:
"6 adjustments to position: stem up, stem left, stem right, dial up, dial down, stem down - another government publication of 1946 refers to these 6 positions and states that most "high quality watches" are adjusted to 5 positions and omitting the stem down adjustment, and "good quality watches" with 3 position adjustments most often are the stem up, dial up and dial down postions
"2 adjustments to temperature: hot and cold - the 1946 paper describes "modern monometallic solid balances" ... "with hairspring made of Elinvar or some similar nickel steel alloy" as making these temperature adjustments moot
"1 adjustment to isochronism"
Now we know all there is about adjustments..... (hah).
Readers will be quizzed on the above criteria before they can buy a RR watch at their local Pawn shop....
L
High grade watches built after 1905-1908 may be marked with specific adjustments. This is especially true for watches intended for use in railroad time service.
Adjustment to Temperature-----------
This is sometimes referred to as adjustment to heat and cold. It requires a temperature compensated balance. The balance has pairs of screws (180 degrees apart) set into the rim.
Adjustment to Position----------------
The next level is adjustment to position. This is adjustment to maintain the same rate of balance (wheel) oscillation, regardless of which of the specified positions the watch is in. There are a total of six positions. Unfortunately, the number or the positions to which the watch is adjusted isn't specified for most watches built prior to 1905-1908. Typically, unspecified adjustment to position means adjustment to three positions, but there are a number of instances in which it means five positions. Adjustment to three positions most likely means stem up, stem at the 3 o'clock position and stem at the 9 o'clock position.
Watches adjusted to five positions include the three positions of stem up, stem at the 3 o'clock position and stem at the 9 o'clock position, plus the dial up and dial down positions
Further-------------"The Tariff Act of 1930 has fees associated with watches of varying adjustments with a possibility of 9 total adjustments as follows:
"6 adjustments to position: stem up, stem left, stem right, dial up, dial down, stem down - another government publication of 1946 refers to these 6 positions and states that most "high quality watches" are adjusted to 5 positions and omitting the stem down adjustment, and "good quality watches" with 3 position adjustments most often are the stem up, dial up and dial down postions
"2 adjustments to temperature: hot and cold - the 1946 paper describes "modern monometallic solid balances" ... "with hairspring made of Elinvar or some similar nickel steel alloy" as making these temperature adjustments moot
"1 adjustment to isochronism"
Now we know all there is about adjustments..... (hah).
Readers will be quizzed on the above criteria before they can buy a RR watch at their local Pawn shop....
L
Well I hope there are no problems with my pics tonight. Here are the watches.
mellotronko
Watching the Monon, the Hoosier Line!!
mellotronko
Watching the Monon, the Hoosier Line!!
I see them now. Very nice collection!
Thanks ben10ben for the compliment. Mr. Bunn made some great watches. I generally carry an Illinois Bunn Special 60 hr. or a Ball 21 jewel. I'm still keeping my eye open for a 16s Rockford 21j.
mellotronko
Runnin' the Monon, the Hoosier Line!!
mellotronko
Runnin' the Monon, the Hoosier Line!!
Ben, I wasn't able to get photos of my watch (I was "playing trains" at our railroad museum, and came home exhausted both days).
However, I do have a couple questions for you: The watch has a gold-filled case that's in pretty good condition except for a small area where the gold was chipped away (about the size of a printed "o" in a newspaper or magazine). It's not dented. Is there any way to get this repaired? What do you think it would cost?
Also, the "crystal" is a replacement made of plastic. Is there any way to get a glass one?
Thanks!
However, I do have a couple questions for you: The watch has a gold-filled case that's in pretty good condition except for a small area where the gold was chipped away (about the size of a printed "o" in a newspaper or magazine). It's not dented. Is there any way to get this repaired? What do you think it would cost?
Also, the "crystal" is a replacement made of plastic. Is there any way to get a glass one?
Thanks!
Since the topic of adjustments was brought up, here's a real world adjustment example.
I just recently bought a timing machine, which is a huge help in doing adjustments. Basically, a timing machine has a very sensitive microphone that listens to the ticks. The microphone is integrated into a clamp, and mounted onto a nicely articulated base, so that the watch can quickly be placed in any desired position.
The microphone input is compared by the machine to a standard timing source. On my 1970s-era machine, the standard is a quartz crystal(older machines used the 60 hz of AC). The timing of the watch is indicated by a line that's printed on a paper strip. A line straight down the strip means that the timing is correct. A line sloping to the left means the watch is running fast, while one sloping to the right means the watch is running slow. This is an invaluable diagnostic tool, as it can allow you to pinpoint where a problem is in a watch by noting if a sudden rate change occurs at a specific frequency.
Anyway, I was playing with one of my watches on the timing machine yesterday. The few times I'd worn it, I'd noticed that it tended to run fast, but hadn't payed much attention beyond that. On the timing machine, I noticed that the rate was nearly dead on dial up(DU), dial down(DD), and pendant left(PL). In pendant up(PU) and pendant right(PR), though, the rate increased by nearly a minute a day.
Here's the timing strip, with PU being the rightmost section visible.
I looked at the movement carefully, and noticed that, in the PU position, gravity was causing the hairspring to bear hard against one of the regulator curb pins. This effectively shortened the hairspring for the full swing(rather than part of the spring, as is normally the case), and thus cause the watch to run fast.
I made a very, very slight adjustment to the hairspring to alter this. After doing so, I was able to get the watch to rate the same PU as in DU, DD, and PL. Thus, this is now a 4 position watch-pretty good for a watch that was not adjusted to position at the factory. Since PR is a little used position, I'm not overly worried about it. I was, however, worried about PL since it's the "carrying" position-thus I've now made the watch very useable as a carry watch.
It's not often this simple, but this will hopefully give some idea of what's involved in watch adjusting and why it increases the cost so much. It also, though, shows why it's absolutely critical that a RR grade watch be adjusted to position.
I just recently bought a timing machine, which is a huge help in doing adjustments. Basically, a timing machine has a very sensitive microphone that listens to the ticks. The microphone is integrated into a clamp, and mounted onto a nicely articulated base, so that the watch can quickly be placed in any desired position.
The microphone input is compared by the machine to a standard timing source. On my 1970s-era machine, the standard is a quartz crystal(older machines used the 60 hz of AC). The timing of the watch is indicated by a line that's printed on a paper strip. A line straight down the strip means that the timing is correct. A line sloping to the left means the watch is running fast, while one sloping to the right means the watch is running slow. This is an invaluable diagnostic tool, as it can allow you to pinpoint where a problem is in a watch by noting if a sudden rate change occurs at a specific frequency.
Anyway, I was playing with one of my watches on the timing machine yesterday. The few times I'd worn it, I'd noticed that it tended to run fast, but hadn't payed much attention beyond that. On the timing machine, I noticed that the rate was nearly dead on dial up(DU), dial down(DD), and pendant left(PL). In pendant up(PU) and pendant right(PR), though, the rate increased by nearly a minute a day.
Here's the timing strip, with PU being the rightmost section visible.
I looked at the movement carefully, and noticed that, in the PU position, gravity was causing the hairspring to bear hard against one of the regulator curb pins. This effectively shortened the hairspring for the full swing(rather than part of the spring, as is normally the case), and thus cause the watch to run fast.
I made a very, very slight adjustment to the hairspring to alter this. After doing so, I was able to get the watch to rate the same PU as in DU, DD, and PL. Thus, this is now a 4 position watch-pretty good for a watch that was not adjusted to position at the factory. Since PR is a little used position, I'm not overly worried about it. I was, however, worried about PL since it's the "carrying" position-thus I've now made the watch very useable as a carry watch.
It's not often this simple, but this will hopefully give some idea of what's involved in watch adjusting and why it increases the cost so much. It also, though, shows why it's absolutely critical that a RR grade watch be adjusted to position.
Thanks Ben. I'll leave the case as-is, and spend the money to get a glass crystal.quote:Originally posted by ben10ben:
Glass crystals are correct and proper-to me, nothing ruins the look of a good watch more than a junky plastic crystal. There's one company I know of making reproduction glass, but there are bunches of NOS glass one around. Most watchmakers have thousands of them.
--Steve
Here's another acquisition. This one was bought "cheap" as a fixer-upper. As you can see, the condition is rough, but the movement is solid(despite a broken balance staff). It even ran with the broken staff, although admittedly not very well.
In any case, here's the watch, a 21 jewel Waltham Crescent Street from 1915. This is a 16 size model 1908 movement, with all of the standard railroad features for the time(lever set, adjusted to 5 positions and temperature, steel escape wheel, double roller). In addition, it has a gold center wheel and gold jewel settings. In short, a very nice and beautifully damaskeened movement.
Interestingly enough, the hairspring collet on this movement is gold(as are the balance screws-as typical of American high-grade watches).
Unlike most other 21 jewel American watches, these Crescent Streets(one of Waltham's more popular RR movements) had a jeweled main wheel. Most 21 jewel watches had cap jewels on the pallet fork instead.
I have a balance staff ordered, and have all the other parts I need on hand. Once finished, this should be a quality, good running watch.
In any case, here's the watch, a 21 jewel Waltham Crescent Street from 1915. This is a 16 size model 1908 movement, with all of the standard railroad features for the time(lever set, adjusted to 5 positions and temperature, steel escape wheel, double roller). In addition, it has a gold center wheel and gold jewel settings. In short, a very nice and beautifully damaskeened movement.
Interestingly enough, the hairspring collet on this movement is gold(as are the balance screws-as typical of American high-grade watches).
Unlike most other 21 jewel American watches, these Crescent Streets(one of Waltham's more popular RR movements) had a jeweled main wheel. Most 21 jewel watches had cap jewels on the pallet fork instead.
I have a balance staff ordered, and have all the other parts I need on hand. Once finished, this should be a quality, good running watch.
Here's another interesting one, a model 1870 Crescent Street.
In 1870, Waltham introduced the first model intended specifically for railway service. This came out of the company's prestigious Nashua department(which is where the best designs in the world were coming from at the time), and was designed by Charles Vander Woerd.
The so-called model 1870 was an 18-size full plate movement, as were most American watches at the time. It had 15 jewels, which was par for the course for a mid to high end watch at the time. As part of its unconventional design, though, it had an inline escapement(all other Waltham full plate models, aside from the much later model 1892, used a right angle lever).
The watch was fitted with a patent star wheel regulator-something that would later become standard on Waltham watches, but was rather unusual at the time.
The watch has Woerd's patent square roller jewel.
Even more unusual, though, was in the design of the setting mechanism. Conventional keywind watches were set from the front. These model 1870 movements moved the setting arbor to the back of the watch.
These watches never really caught on. There were only about 15,000 of these made, roughly half in key wind and the other half in stem wind. A lot of this was probably due to the special casing requirements(virtually all Woerd designed watches require special cases). In fact, these are now difficult to find in original cases-as mine above will no doubt illustrate.
In 1870, Waltham introduced the first model intended specifically for railway service. This came out of the company's prestigious Nashua department(which is where the best designs in the world were coming from at the time), and was designed by Charles Vander Woerd.
The so-called model 1870 was an 18-size full plate movement, as were most American watches at the time. It had 15 jewels, which was par for the course for a mid to high end watch at the time. As part of its unconventional design, though, it had an inline escapement(all other Waltham full plate models, aside from the much later model 1892, used a right angle lever).
The watch was fitted with a patent star wheel regulator-something that would later become standard on Waltham watches, but was rather unusual at the time.
The watch has Woerd's patent square roller jewel.
Even more unusual, though, was in the design of the setting mechanism. Conventional keywind watches were set from the front. These model 1870 movements moved the setting arbor to the back of the watch.
These watches never really caught on. There were only about 15,000 of these made, roughly half in key wind and the other half in stem wind. A lot of this was probably due to the special casing requirements(virtually all Woerd designed watches require special cases). In fact, these are now difficult to find in original cases-as mine above will no doubt illustrate.
Elgin 18 size, 3/4 plate, 21 jewel Father Time.
These were Elgin's premium 18 size grade, and by many accounts the best 18 size watches ever made. This one is beautifully finished in a way that American watches rarely are, with polished and beveled plate edges. The damaskeen is an attractive "sunburst" pattern, not unlike what is found on the Illinois Bunn Special. The execution of everything is top notch, and this wasn't even close to the most expensive watch Elgin made at the time.
These were Elgin's premium 18 size grade, and by many accounts the best 18 size watches ever made. This one is beautifully finished in a way that American watches rarely are, with polished and beveled plate edges. The damaskeen is an attractive "sunburst" pattern, not unlike what is found on the Illinois Bunn Special. The execution of everything is top notch, and this wasn't even close to the most expensive watch Elgin made at the time.
