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Hello O scale World ......the 30's were all about the streamlined look in design ...making everything sleek with minimal details to accentuate the strong sweeping curve lines .     Raymond Loewy was the  master   of the decade  creating many of the iconic trains , cars and coke machines we have all admired. please see link for more info about Raymond 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Loewy

 

The 1939 NYC World's Fair was the height of the streamlined movement ...( war is waging in Europe ..but here in the USA we're going to the fair .  The Eastern Railroads joined together to put on a huge pageant to promote rail travel and illustrate the vital role the railroads played . Two large O scale layouts were built ..employing many model makers and most of the O scale manufacturers building specialized engines and cars to endure the long hours of daily running .... using ball bearings in the wheels sets..the new 2 rail operation ..and designing generic  looking engines so no one railroad would have sole identity  ruling the layout . 

Bill Walthers .... provided some of the engines for the Fair  using the new Poly-Drive  gear box ... and a fully streamlined steam engine and set of matching smooth sided cars to flash around the layout in lighting speed. 

Bill added the streamlined steamer and matching cars  to the catalog in 1940 ...   the pieces reappeared after the war in 1946 .  Judging by the remaining examples ..it may not have been  on the best sellers list.

Here we have Bill's streamlined steamer .... this example has a good chance of being run on the 1939 Fair layout ...  under the over paint  is the original  paint scheme as shown in catalogs  and layout .... it's two rail operation , and the tender has balls bearing wheels sets ... the Poly-Drive gear box .....oh yes... it is very worn out  but she still does run ( walk fast) . 

So you be the judge who designed a better looking streamlined engine ..... Ray or Bill  ?

Below you have an Alexander S1  ( original designed by Loewy) along side the Walther's  streamliner ...both from 1939 

Cheers Carey 

If anyone has a set of early Walther's streamlined cars ..I'm in the market 

 

Streamliner 1940 catalogIMG_8990IMG_8989IMG_8888IMG_8887 

 

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Last edited by Carey Williams
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Hello Chris ....below is a photo of the poly drive units....little diecast things ....that you can plug into each other and add wheels to the outside ..... think bild-a-loco ....for an all wheel drive steamer ...side rods can be optional...not quite prototypical..... lots of little moving parts ...... works fine till it doesn't...

The streamliner is before poly-drive was on the market ......so only one drive on center drivers ..with side rods working for the other drivers ....  below you can so a catalog page  with an illustration of the poly drive components...... good idea on the paper .....reality not so much ... one size fits all only works if there are no other options .

On the shelf is a Walther's Mikado with poly drive ...you can see the diecast poly drive units lined up behind the drivers ....

Walther's offered the poly drives for a short time after the war ...then quietly let them die .    Walthers was known for car kits ...... engines ....no ..... 

 

Cheers Carey 

  

 

polymor drive units 1940

 

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Lowey, without a doubt, had some top notch designs.   Air Force One still sports his iconic design.  There were other in those days like Dreyfus with his NYC 20th Century Hudson.  Otto Kuhler also did outstanding work.  

The one thing that sets Raymond Lowey's work apart from the others are his simple understated designs.  Not flashy and colorful, just classic.  

Now as far as the original question, as to who was a better designer, Lowey or Walthers.  Both designers did excellent work in their own fields.

Last edited by Former Member

Raymond Loewy was a professional 'industrial designer' who was commissioned by several of the leading US companies during his lifetime - the Pennsylvania Railroad being only one example. However it should also be noted that many of the 'iconic' designs originating from his firms drafting boards where an intensive collaborative design effort with several unnamed members of his office staff.  No question Loewy was a superb representative (super salesman) of his firm and contributor to its design efforts.  Similar to other design luminaries of his time Loewy was not exactly a generous individual when it came to giving design credit to others in his employ. The iconic PRR GG1 is a prime example of Loewy's limited design involvement after the basic design had already been developed by others. Yet another example of Loewy's grandstanding for his own personal reputation!

As to Bill Walthers design contribution to the model train community I have little or no reference to his design work. He seemed to have been a rather clever individual in his streamline designs which to my way of thinking more or less mimicked the real world.

Last edited by nyccollector1

I've seen, first hand, how senior members of a firm enjoy taking all of the credit for projects.  But as we all know, bulls_ _t walks and money talks.  On more than a few occasions architects and engineers took the credit for work I had designed or engineered, on the job.  

paigetrain posted:

who ever designed this beauty

Related image

 

Add the name Olive Dennis to your list of luminaries.  She designed the Cincinnatian:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatian#History

She was also the first person to hold a position described as "Service Engineer" and was the first female to hold membership in the American Railway Engineering Association (AREA).  She also designed a small bridge for the B&O but, sadly, it has been removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_Dennis

That's a great piece of history Carey- thanks so much for the post. Bill Walthers was undoubtedly a talented guy and his engine is impressive indeed. It's hard to compare him to Loewy of course who was a professional designer. Let's just say Walther's was inspired by him.

Is that your loco? What a great piece to own.

scale rail posted:

Loewy designed a nice vacuum cleaner too. Donvacuumcleaner1321482648203

This was our vacuum cleaner for many of my youngest years!

BUT......the more important memory of this machine was the box that it came in!

That Electrolux box held Dad's 366W set, oval of track, transformer and rheostat, gateman and actuator, a jumble of bell wire, track clips, a separate 1835W tender (replaced under warranty) that was grossly deformed from zinc pest...and a year's worth of dead bugs!!!  That set graced-as-it-raced around the balsam tree...Mazda bubble lights, gobs of tinsel, glass ornaments (survivors!), et al.  

Dad was given his set in 1934, at the ripe young age of 26, by his folks.  The original LIonel boxes were long gone.  In their place was that Electrolux box.....the treasure chest for the family jewels, IMYHO.  And the bringing down of that box from the attic (castle tower) where it resided for about 340 days was not without great fanfare, ceremony, and wide young eyes.

Sadly, that box succumbed to the ravages of time, temperature, stresses it never expected to endure after the first delivery of the streamlined vacuum cleaner and accessories.  And every time the vacuum cleaner was used throughout the year, the "Electrolux" on its side reminded this kid about that box, its contents...in the attic....waiting for its next triumphant descent to the living room....and a season of JOY!

KD

Sorry for the digression.  Re your original question.......Loewy.

Last edited by dkdkrd

Yes, Loewy and many others, all mentioned above, gave us great designs of grace and power combined.  Such as the automobile designs used to be, very distinct and with sense of individualism.  Not as what we have today where most look like the one before, and after...….     The memories of using the Electrolux vacuum are also cherished part of my childhood memories.  One of the most "famous" may be the one Neil Young put on the layout he built for his son.  The Electrolux had an ominous distinction of being representation of the Nuclear Industry as a reactor and dreaded work place.  This was same layout he used to design remote train control for his son, afflicted with severe MS.  Remote control he designed was basis to later become  TMCC.

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

Famed designers bring the work into the firm,not the draftsmen.  A couple of years ago I had a nice opportunity of playing at a grand opening of a golf course.  The internationally known golf course architect played that day along with a couple of his key design people.  Afterwards we happened to chat in a small group sipping some spirits.  They explained the design process,no tricked up holes on his courses.  He directed the work,visited the site, and had the final say,the staff did the drawings and supervised the build.  It was obvious that when someone wanted a new course built they called on the master and not subordinates.  They seemed pretty satisfied with that arrangement and their pay checks.

I am sure that it was the same with Raymond Loewy.

Norm

I found this about 10 years ago as a basket case. I restored it and runs pretty good. I wonder if this one is a postwar issued kit. The tender body was cast without the skirting, and this one does not have the poly drive mechanism. It has a more traditional type drive. I noticed that Carey's loco appears to be cast bronze/brass. My loco and tender are cast aluminum.

 

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Last edited by milnyc

On the shelf is a Walther's Mikado with poly drive ...you can see the diecast poly drive units lined up behind the drivers ....

Walther's offered the poly drives for a short time after the war ...then quietly let them die .    Walthers was known for car kits ...... engines ....no ..... 

 Cheers Carey 

 

IMG_6891

That's a rather nice looking Mike...how does it run?

Mark in Oregon 

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