Raymond Loewy vs Bill Walthers in a streamline design contest ....you vote !

Raymond Loewy without a doubt.  His work went far beyond locomotives.  

Sorry, I think these, like most streamlined steam locomotives, are very un-attractive.

Opinion.

who ever designed this beauty

the j #611

MLW U4A

still look for one in semi scale 3 rail

Carey, can you post a photo of the Poly-Drive please?

Bruce

Hello Chris ....below is a photo of the poly drive units....little diecast things ....that you can plug into each other and add wheels to the outside ..... think bild-a-loco ....for an all wheel drive steamer ...side rods can be optional...not quite prototypical..... lots of little moving parts ...... works fine till it doesn't...

The streamliner is before poly-drive was on the market ......so only one drive on center drivers ..with side rods working for the other drivers ....  below you can so a catalog page  with an illustration of the poly drive components...... good idea on the paper .....reality not so much ... one size fits all only works if there are no other options .

On the shelf is a Walther's Mikado with poly drive ...you can see the diecast poly drive units lined up behind the drivers ....

Walther's offered the poly drives for a short time after the war ...then quietly let them die .    Walthers was known for car kits ...... engines ....no ..... 

Cheers Carey 

A personal favorite from another of the great railroad designers of the 30s, Otto Kuhler.

Lowey, without a doubt, had some top notch designs.   Air Force One still sports his iconic design.  There were other in those days like Dreyfus with his NYC 20th Century Hudson.  Otto Kuhler also did outstanding work.  

The one thing that sets Raymond Lowey's work apart from the others are his simple understated designs.  Not flashy and colorful, just classic.  

Now as far as the original question, as to who was a better designer, Lowey or Walthers.  Both designers did excellent work in their own fields.

Raymond Loewy was a professional 'industrial designer' who was commissioned by several of the leading US companies during his lifetime - the Pennsylvania Railroad being only one example. However it should also be noted that many of the 'iconic' designs originating from his firms drafting boards where an intensive collaborative design effort with several unnamed members of his office staff.  No question Loewy was a superb representative (super salesman) of his firm and contributor to its design efforts.  Similar to other design luminaries of his time Loewy was not exactly a generous individual when it came to giving design credit to others in his employ. The iconic PRR GG1 is a prime example of Loewy's limited design involvement after the basic design had already been developed by others. Yet another example of Loewy's grandstanding for his own personal reputation!

As to Bill Walthers design contribution to the model train community I have little or no reference to his design work. He seemed to have been a rather clever individual in his streamline designs which to my way of thinking more or less mimicked the real world.

I've seen, first hand, how senior members of a firm enjoy taking all of the credit for projects.  But as we all know, bulls_ _t walks and money talks.  On more than a few occasions architects and engineers took the credit for work I had designed or engineered, on the job.  

paigetrain posted:

who ever designed this beauty

 

Add the name Olive Dennis to your list of luminaries.  She designed the Cincinnatian:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatian#History

She was also the first person to hold a position described as "Service Engineer" and was the first female to hold membership in the American Railway Engineering Association (AREA).  She also designed a small bridge for the B&O but, sadly, it has been removed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_Dennis

That's a great piece of history Carey- thanks so much for the post. Bill Walthers was undoubtedly a talented guy and his engine is impressive indeed. It's hard to compare him to Loewy of course who was a professional designer. Let's just say Walther's was inspired by him.

Is that your loco? What a great piece to own.

Loewy designed a nice vacuum cleaner too. Don

What about Henry Dreyfess and his work for the New York Central. When I was doing my degree in design, I used any excuse I could to bring up trains, great fun!!       cTr....( Choose the Right )

Weaver did a bunch of those beauties in brass in the 1990's and early 2000's. I am fortunate to have some of them. And while a bit further afield, let us not forget Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell, Virgil Exner, etc. Mix those cars into your layout with the streamliners running.

Gerry 

scale rail posted:

Loewy designed a nice vacuum cleaner too. Don

This was our vacuum cleaner for many of my youngest years!

BUT......the more important memory of this machine was the box that it came in!

That Electrolux box held Dad's 366W set, oval of track, transformer and rheostat, gateman and actuator, a jumble of bell wire, track clips, a separate 1835W tender (replaced under warranty) that was grossly deformed from zinc pest...and a year's worth of dead bugs!!!  That set graced-as-it-raced around the balsam tree...Mazda bubble lights, gobs of tinsel, glass ornaments (survivors!), et al.  

Dad was given his set in 1934, at the ripe young age of 26, by his folks.  The original LIonel boxes were long gone.  In their place was that Electrolux box.....the treasure chest for the family jewels, IMYHO.  And the bringing down of that box from the attic (castle tower) where it resided for about 340 days was not without great fanfare, ceremony, and wide young eyes.

Sadly, that box succumbed to the ravages of time, temperature, stresses it never expected to endure after the first delivery of the streamlined vacuum cleaner and accessories.  And every time the vacuum cleaner was used throughout the year, the "Electrolux" on its side reminded this kid about that box, its contents...in the attic....waiting for its next triumphant descent to the living room....and a season of JOY!

KD

Sorry for the digression.  Re your original question.......Loewy.

Yes, Loewy and many others, all mentioned above, gave us great designs of grace and power combined.  Such as the automobile designs used to be, very distinct and with sense of individualism.  Not as what we have today where most look like the one before, and after...….     The memories of using the Electrolux vacuum are also cherished part of my childhood memories.  One of the most "famous" may be the one Neil Young put on the layout he built for his son.  The Electrolux had an ominous distinction of being representation of the Nuclear Industry as a reactor and dreaded work place.  This was same layout he used to design remote train control for his son, afflicted with severe MS.  Remote control he designed was basis to later become  TMCC.

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

Hello all... here is the engine running on the Building a Railroad display ..1939-40 ...NYC World's Fair 

Cheers Carey

I have great respect for fellow Industrial Designer Raymond Loewy. He was the head of Raymond Loewy Associates. On a number of designs, like the late 1940s Studebaker, the associates and designers did the design work, and Loewy posed with the final result. He was not known for giving individual credit.

Famed designers bring the work into the firm,not the draftsmen.  A couple of years ago I had a nice opportunity of playing at a grand opening of a golf course.  The internationally known golf course architect played that day along with a couple of his key design people.  Afterwards we happened to chat in a small group sipping some spirits.  They explained the design process,no tricked up holes on his courses.  He directed the work,visited the site, and had the final say,the staff did the drawings and supervised the build.  It was obvious that when someone wanted a new course built they called on the master and not subordinates.  They seemed pretty satisfied with that arrangement and their pay checks.

I am sure that it was the same with Raymond Loewy.

Norm

I am delighted to see that the vacuum landed on the correct forum. Look and take note that it is, in fact a 2 rail. LOL

Simon

I found this about 10 years ago as a basket case. I restored it and runs pretty good. I wonder if this one is a postwar issued kit. The tender body was cast without the skirting, and this one does not have the poly drive mechanism. It has a more traditional type drive. I noticed that Carey's loco appears to be cast bronze/brass. My loco and tender are cast aluminum.

Don't care for the design, but admire your restoration!  Very nice.  It is now a bit more difficult to get castings made - I have been waiting for over a year for a few aluminum castings.  Artists cannot be rushed, and big foundries cannot be bothered.

Nice Job Milnyc ....my engine is bronze ...tender I think is aluminum....  not too many of these out there ...glad to see another ..thank you for posting 

Cheers Carey  

@Carey Williams posted:

Nice Job Milnyc ....my engine is bronze ...tender I think is aluminum....  not too many of these out there ...glad to see another ..thank you for posting 

Cheers Carey  

Yours and mine are the only two I have ever seen, and I have been doing this for a long time!

Dreyfuss was snazzy!

@milnyc posted:

Yours and mine are the only two I have ever seen, and I have been doing this for a long time!

Hello ...there is a second bronze one out there .....one ran on the Detroit City Club layout in the late 40's ...

Cheers Carey 

@Carey Williams posted:

On the shelf is a Walther's Mikado with poly drive ...you can see the diecast poly drive units lined up behind the drivers ....

Walther's offered the poly drives for a short time after the war ...then quietly let them die .    Walthers was known for car kits ...... engines ....no ..... 

 Cheers Carey 

 

That's a rather nice looking Mike...how does it run?

Mark in Oregon 

Barely ...poly drive ...and,the,plastic centered drivers not a great,combo