Have a track plan?

Don't have a current track plan, intend to create it when needed. Where there is O27, there are many short straight and some short curved sections so it might take a while.

But - the following 4 pictures shows the table, tracks, and a lot more. 

All curves in the inner and outer parts of the main loop are larger than 27's (O27) or 31's (FasTrack)

Most of the buildings are already in place (Plasticville in "Rural' will be replaced) but real scenery will come after all is FasTrack. For the kids, operation comes way before beauty.

All walk-ways are 2' wide, and the layout is accessible from all sides except the right side, as seen in pics 1 and 2.

Pic 1, this is the first location, "Rural", with the farm siding (cattle and milk sources) to the lower left. Further away in the picture is the forest siding (coal and log loader), still part of Rural. The milk platform holds full cans for shipping, and receives empty cans back (black tops) from the dairy. The forest siding only sends logs and coal, empty cars return for loading. 

Off the bottom of the picture is a transformer and other controls.

Pic 2, mainly the second location, Tysons, with the lumber yard siding to the left with the saw mill, and the general siding to the right, with the dairy, manual barrel loader used for drums, and a small freight platform. The dairy has a platform for receiving full milk cans (and sending away empty ones). The barrel loader, repurposed as a drum loader (to load empty drums) is sitting on a bin to receive full drums. The small freight station (grey roof) has a bin on the far end to receive green boxes, and it sends away brown boxes. Note: empty drums and milk cans have black tops to signify empty...

Another view of most of the forest siding at the Rural location is to the right.

Off the bottom of the picture is a transformer and other controls.( The smaller transformer near the top middle right is just for an operating track powering experiment.)

Pic 3: half of the Baltimore location is in the center, showing the siding for the oil storage facility with drum loader closer to the front, and the meat packing plant (with cattle platform behind it). The drum loader receives empty drums (black tops) in the bin across from it, and loads full drums. The cattle platform unloads cattle.

The left part of the picture shows most of the yard. Tracks, from the left, are Passenger cars, "to Baltimore" track, "to Tysons" track, "to Rural" track, inbound cars track, and engine track. This whole area has an inner and outer loop, with the entry to the inner track at the right foreground.

Mostly off the bottom of the picture is a transformer and other controls.

Pic 4. This is a continuation of the background of pic 3. The rest of the yard is to the left, same tracks as in the prior pic. To the right of the furthest engine in the engine track is the second Baltimore siding. The non-operating coal tower is in the center, with the coal dump bin close to us. Behind is a distribution warehouse. It receives brown merchandise boxes, and send green ones. Towards the right top of the picture are the switches allowing exit from the inner loop. (To avoid confusion: the empty table with gloves in the upper left is not part of the layout; it is a rolling work table, at layout height.)

Here is a helpful full-layout picture that ties it all together. Rural is to the right, Tysons in the center, with Baltimore and the yard to the left.

Nice layout!

Is it  a valid conclusion that no one else in the hobby is doing this, has done this, or is interested in doing this? If so, why not? 

Actually, I believe there are some people who have switching layouts with working cars and accessories. As for me, I have a huge layout with lots of industries and switching, but have given up the toy aspect of operating cars and accessories, in favor of car cards and realistic operation.

In this hobby there is no right answer, except what makes you happy.

I believe everyone on this forum wishes they had the room and the finances to have a large layout similar to Elliot's.  For those of us that don't, we need to make compromises.  I am slowly (very slowly) building a switching layout that also has the capability for loop running using the widest curves I can fit in (O96 on outside, O80 on inside).  My compromise to get what I want involves limited scenery and lots of track (and switches).

The operating concept of my late 40s era layout is based on a small yard along the mainline where blocks of cars are dropped off from points far away, then sorted on classifications tracks to go out via local freights to small industries.  The reverse takes place to get the cars back home (or wherever).  This required a yard that has a minimum of an arrival/departure track, classification tracks, cabin track, run around track to the engine yard, and a yard lead track that did not interfere with the arrival/departure track.  There is also a 4-track staging yard but has the limitation the trains need to be back in.

Below is the plan after Stage 2.  Stage 3 eliminates the loop in the upper right and continues the layout off the top on the plan for about 15 more feet.  The turntable is an Atlas that I may sell and get one that has a 28" deck.  The engine yard is probably too big for this plan but I want all my engines on the layout.  Many industries will be just fronts along the wall.

I will use a few operating accessories but I will use only those that a fairly realistic like the 3-car K-Line coal ramp and MTH fuel tank/pumps.

@Ed M my brother and I used to do operating sessions on our O27 layout many years ago.  We didn't have many action accessories, so except for a few open-top cars, the loading and unloading was make-believe (and we kept track of it by cards.)

There are many books that describe this concept in detail.  IMO you're doing it right, although I'm not sure how (or if) you do the continuous running part to simulate going from one "town" to another.

Since that time I've created several track plans that support this theme.  Over the years I've acquired wide-radius curves and scale-proportioned equipment.  Unfortunately, I live in the Land of No Basements and have even less room than @CAPPilot.  I've also discovered that sometimes I like to turn on the trains and let them run.  Also I want at least a couple alternate routes, so I'm adamant that the next layout I build WON'T have concentric ovals, even if that means using sharper curves.  Well, we'll see!  Good topic!!

As Ron points out, very few people have the kind of space that I do, but also as he points out, you don't need to have a huge space to have lots of action. I did what I did because I wanted a long mainline. I ended up with around 600' after it winds around three levels.

Ed, what you are doing is really cool, and you seem to have enough space to make it very interesting.

It's very impressive that you have integrated all the accessories into an operating plan like that. I never really considered doing so, I think mostly because so few of the car available are operating cars--also because I didn't have enough accessories!

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Actually, I believe there are some people who have switching layouts with working cars and accessories. As for me, I have a huge layout with lots of industries and switching, but have given up the toy aspect of operating cars and accessories, in favor of car cards and realistic operation.

In this hobby there is no right answer, except what makes you happy.

Lots of interesting comments in the last 24 hours. It probably will take multiple posts and some time to reply back.

Elliot's post:

1.  It would be great to find the others who have "switching layouts with working cars and accessories", and get them connected here. Share the knowledge. If you know such a person, can you get them to participate here?

2.  "toy aspect of operating cars and accessories".

            o. Many of the current operating cars are pure novelty toys; thank Lionel.

           o. Other operating cars and accessories seem to be positioned as toys in at least the Lionel catalogues, and the involved buildings are at the Plasticville level of finish. Why does the SawMill (in and out of catalogues) not look like a Woodland Scenics creation? Yes, you can refinish them yourself, but why not Lionel offer it? If there was not money in upscale buildings, Woodland Scenics and others would not do it. Or, why is the only receiving option for cars that dump things to be a replica of a Bakelite product based on 1909 technology? Or, when there is a Milk-can car in the catalogue, the platform looks like something from the tin-plate era? 

          o. I'm building for grandkids, and the hobby needs kids. If everything that operates is a toy, then kids enjoy toys. But toys do not have to be cheap or retro. A $1,000 drone is a toy - as, could be argued, is a $2,000 engine that operates.

I am not arguing with Elliot's "toy" characterization, just bemoaning its unnecessary truth and current emphasis.  

3.  "in favor of car cards..."  Note that my layout and operation has car cards (you can see them in pic 1 and pick 5 near the "Tysons" transformer and controls). We use them because for 2 of the 6 freight types you can not see whether the car is carrying anything (cattle), or, if it is, what it is. (For Boxes, you can't tell brown or green (different destinations), for milk you can't tell whether full cans or black-topped empties).

Elliot raised many interesting points - thanks

Ed

CAPPilot posted:

I believe everyone on this forum wishes they had the room and the finances to have a large layout similar to Elliot's.  For those of us that don't, we need to make compromises.  I am slowly (very slowly) building a switching layout that also has the capability for loop running using the widest curves I can fit in (O96 on outside, O80 on inside).  My compromise to get what I want involves limited scenery and lots of track (and switches).

The operating concept of my late 40s era layout is based on a small yard along the mainline where blocks of cars are dropped off from points far away, then sorted on classifications tracks to go out via local freights to small industries.  The reverse takes place to get the cars back home (or wherever).  This required a yard that has a minimum of an arrival/departure track, classification tracks, cabin track, run around track to the engine yard, and a yard lead track that did not interfere with the arrival/departure track.  There is also a 4-track staging yard but has the limitation the trains need to be back in.

Below is the plan after Stage 2.  Stage 3 eliminates the loop in the upper right and continues the layout off the top on the plan for about 15 more feet.  The turntable is an Atlas that I may sell and get one that has a 28" deck.  The engine yard is probably too big for this plan but I want all my engines on the layout.  Many industries will be just fronts along the wall.

I will use a few operating accessories but I will use only those that a fairly realistic like the 3-car K-Line coal ramp and MTH fuel tank/pumps.c

Nice layout, thanks fr your comments.

"fairly realistic" Amen! see my prior post. 

"3-car K-Line coal ramp and MTH fuel tank/pumps": I could not find them on eBay or MTH site. Any clue as to where they can be seen or purchased?

Ed

Ted S posted:

@Ed M my brother and I used to do operating sessions on our O27 layout many years ago.  We didn't have many action accessories, so except for a few open-top cars, the loading and unloading was make-believe (and we kept track of it by cards.)

There are many books that describe this concept in detail.  IMO you're doing it right, although I'm not sure how (or if) you do the continuous running part to simulate going from one "town" to another.

Since that time I've created several track plans that support this theme.  Over the years I've acquired wide-radius curves and scale-proportioned equipment.  Unfortunately, I live in the Land of No Basements and have even less room than @CAPPilot.  I've also discovered that sometimes I like to turn on the trains and let them run.  Also I want at least a couple alternate routes, so I'm adamant that the next layout I build WON'T have concentric ovals, even if that means using sharper curves.  Well, we'll see!  Good topic!!. 

Ted, thanks for your insight.

My comments:

1. "We didn't have many operating accessories". Of the 12 "ends" for the 6 freight types, 5 are just drop bins or platforms (box at both ends, milk at both ends, coal dump) with all the action in the car; 1 is a manual loader (barrel loader re-purposed to drum loader); and 6 of the ends actually operate electrically (cattle both ends, log load and then dump at sawmill, coal load, drum load. I had 3, but 1 died. So I bought 4, only the sawmill being new. Total cost was much less than am single $750 - $1,000 engine...

2. "I'm not sure how (or if) you do the continuous running part to simulate going from one "town" to another."

Not sure what you meant, so I'll answer both meanings.

A. Hands-off continuous run. Several options: three trains running at the same time, each limited by switches to staying in one of the towns. Or, two trains running at the same time: one staying in the inner loop in the Baltimore/yard area, and one running the entire outer loop.

B. Unending freight operations: This takes all sorts of hands-on operating, but the session can be stopped at any point and picked up right there for the next session. No need to re-stage at some point.  Basic idea is that, for each of the towns, a train goes from the outbound tack in the yard for that destination, out with deliveries for each terminal in each siding, but prior to delivery, extracts the same number of cars from these sidings. Once the delivered cars are positioned, then the extracted cars are taken to the inbound track in the yard. Once all the outbound tracks have sent out their trains, then the cars in the inbound track in the yard are sorted into their proper outbound track.

There are options: this can be done by 3 trains running simultaneously, or by the three trains happening one after another. Or by separating the outbound operation from the inbound operation, using half as many cars and not doing a drop and pick up at the same time.

Critical: between when the cars are dropped at a siding and picked up in the next cycle, the cars and accessories need to do appropriate receiving cycle work (unloading unless the car is an empty) and then the appropriate send cycle work (usually loading, unless the car is leaving as an empty). 

 Probably to make sense, all of this takes a longer explanation. Ask and I'll write more.

Ed

nickaix posted:

It's very impressive that you have integrated all the accessories into an operating plan like that. I never really considered doing so, I think mostly because so few of the car available are operating cars--also because I didn't have enough accessories!

Thanks for your input.

Car availability: not much new is available in a given year, but there is plenty on eBay. Williams has made some nice cars, but they can't get around in an O27 layout. I'm slowly migrating to FasTrack, but it will be a while. My investment in FasTrack will be much larger than my investment in Operating Accessories and 2nd hand cars.

Accessory availability: buy new when you can, but plenty of old stuff available on eBay. See my last post on how many actually electrically operating accessories my layout took. For example, with Milk cans and merchandise boxes, all the operation is in the cars. I have a coal loader, but the other end of the coal operation is just a receiving bin.

Ed

Ed M posted:

Is it  a valid conclusion that no one else in the hobby is doing this, has done this, or is interested in doing this? If so, why not? 

   I started to employ the idea, but found as an adult, I'm simply satisfied watching a train roll by. I got my sidings working as intended, but never really use them.  

When running operations as a youth, my favorite part was covering a scale distance; counting lots of laps. Usually Detroit to Chicago with switching stops in between.   I usually let someone else handle the switching and goods transfers while I rested up from the long haul's "fatigue"

 I do love using and watching accessory gadgety, but in the end it is more about watching the action of individual bits of machinery than actual RR operations that intrigues me. (why I prefer steam, over electric, over diesels; each provides a unique type or amount of mechanical action)

  Lionel's focus is as a toy train company first. Thier style created "the postwar look".  Anything too realistic breaks from that; so be thankful they pay attention to requests for realism at all.  That said, most remakes attempt to make the action more realistic than the old, if not the looks too; but there is still that toy/real balance to be had.

  If scale was better for the bottom line, you'd see more. If it was only about toys, same thing. 

Imo it's far easier to make a toy realistic, than it would be to make a realistic item more toy-like to fit the traditional  PW  look.  So the toy look is a safer focus to market because it crosses over easier. 

Your milage may vary of course   

That is a very well planned, visually interesting layout. I'd be happy to count many a lap on it

I am in a round robin group in various scales and we have 9 layouts as I count on my fingers that all do switching and have industries and yards and use car cards or some system to route cars.    Two of are O, one 3 rail, one 2 rail and 3 of us use switchlists, one uses car for car exchanges (no paperwork) and the rest use car cards.    None use the operating accessories as mentioned but there is no reason not to.    They can be industries just like static ones.

We can operate with as few as 3 and some layouts can take up to 20 operators.

The idea to do operations is what is worthwhile.     

I keep eyeing old operating accessories. It is very tempting to convert some, or scratch something. 

Adriatic posted:

Ed M posted:

Is it  a valid conclusion that no one else in the hobby is doing this, has done this, or is interested in doing this? If so, why not? 

   I started to employ the idea, but found as an adult, I'm simply satisfied watching a train roll by. I got my sidings working as intended, but never really use them.  

When running operations as a youth, my favorite part was covering a scale distance; counting lots of laps. Usually Detroit to Chicago with switching stops in between.   I usually let someone else handle the switching and goods transfers while I rested up from the long haul's "fatigue"

 I do love using and watching accessory gadgety, but in the end it is more about watching the action of individual bits of machinery than actual RR operations that intrigues me. (why I prefer steam, over electric, over diesels; each provides a unique type or amount of mechanical action)

  Lionel's focus is as a toy train company first. Thier style created "the postwar look".  Anything too realistic breaks from that; so be thankful they pay attention to requests for realism at all.  That said, most remakes attempt to make the action more realistic than the old, if not the looks too; but there is still that toy/real balance to be had.

  If scale was better for the bottom line, you'd see more. If it was only about toys, same thing. 

Imo it's far easier to make a toy realistic, than it would be to make a realistic item more toy-like to fit the traditional  PW  look.  So the toy look is a safer focus to market because it crosses over easier. 

Your milage may vary of course   

That is a very well planned, visually interesting layout. I'd be happy to count many a lap on it

Thanks for the thoughts.

"I do love using and watching accessory gadgety,..."

The accessories that on my layout that seem to draw the most spectator interest are the Drum Loader and the Saw Mill. Both are of more recent vintage, not post-war. Videos of each are available on youtube

Ed

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Actually, I believe there are some people who have switching layouts with working cars and accessories. As for me, I have a huge layout with lots of industries and switching, but have given up the toy aspect of operating cars and accessories, in favor of car cards and realistic operation.

In this hobby there is no right answer, except what makes you happy.

Now that is one big mother of a grain set up.In my home town there was one like this.It was not that big but a good sized.BTW I like how you got the crossing here.

Ed, I'm with you on using as many operating accessories as I can.  I am just now rearranging my track plan slightly to allow my two LC+ locomotives to do alot of switching operations on my small layout.  Here's the layout before the change.

https://youtu.be/KSRahRI7OWY

https://youtu.be/t5-NmITN3JM

And my new track plan.  I only have 3' x 12' to work with.  I want to keep it simple yet allow for quick switching.  I experimented with another plan, but it required way too many moves by the locomotive to get the freight cars to their proper locations beside the operating accessories.  I feel this design allows for easy drop off of cars to the accessories.  The LH O22 switch track at the bottom right corner is a spur to park my GG1 and some freight cars.  

The way I operate the layout is to have the GG1 pull a train around the loop, then uncouple from the train and park in the spur.  Then a switcher can dismantle the train and bring the cars to their sidings.

Interesting! clever use of limited space.

I don't recognize some of the accessories in the first video:

1. The Longhorn loader (have seen it, can't find it on eBay, don't have a number)
2. Late in the video, to the right of the light tower, looks somewhat like a sawmill with a crane, maybe labeled "Hillcrest Lum..."

Help, please

Ed

That sawmill is an American Flyer #23796.  Here is a video in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtY-AD4WJE

I believe that a modern version of this accessory has been made by Lionel.  The modern one probably uses a can motor so it may not provide the AC motor whine (which sounds to me like the saw working) that the original has.

seaboardm2 posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Actually, I believe there are some people who have switching layouts with working cars and accessories. As for me, I have a huge layout with lots of industries and switching, but have given up the toy aspect of operating cars and accessories, in favor of car cards and realistic operation.

In this hobby there is no right answer, except what makes you happy.

Now that is one big mother of a grain set up.In my home town there was one like this.It was not that big but a good sized.BTW I like how you got the crossing here.

You're only seeing about half of it in that picture. This is in south Minneapolis, and is called the Hiawatha Milling District. The crossing is actually a real feature of the prototype. It does add nice visual interest. If you'd like to visit the real location, click here. It's a little hard to see because it's partially covered with dirt from disuse.

Ed M posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Actually, I believe there are some people who have switching layouts with working cars and accessories. As for me, I have a huge layout with lots of industries and switching, but have given up the toy aspect of operating cars and accessories, in favor of car cards and realistic operation.

In this hobby there is no right answer, except what makes you happy.

Lots of interesting comments in the last 24 hours. It probably will take multiple posts and some time to reply back.

Elliot's post:

1.  It would be great to find the others who have "switching layouts with working cars and accessories", and get them connected here. Share the knowledge. If you know such a person, can you get them to participate here?

2.  "toy aspect of operating cars and accessories".

            o. Many of the current operating cars are pure novelty toys; thank Lionel.

           o. Other operating cars and accessories seem to be positioned as toys in at least the Lionel catalogues, and the involved buildings are at the Plasticville level of finish. Why does the SawMill (in and out of catalogues) not look like a Woodland Scenics creation? Yes, you can refinish them yourself, but why not Lionel offer it? If there was not money in upscale buildings, Woodland Scenics and others would not do it. Or, why is the only receiving option for cars that dump things to be a replica of a Bakelite product based on 1909 technology? Or, when there is a Milk-can car in the catalogue, the platform looks like something from the tin-plate era? 

          o. I'm building for grandkids, and the hobby needs kids. If everything that operates is a toy, then kids enjoy toys. But toys do not have to be cheap or retro. A $1,000 drone is a toy - as, could be argued, is a $2,000 engine that operates.

I am not arguing with Elliot's "toy" characterization, just bemoaning its unnecessary truth and current emphasis.  

3.  "in favor of car cards..."  Note that my layout and operation has car cards (you can see them in pic 1 and pick 5 near the "Tysons" transformer and controls). We use them because for 2 of the 6 freight types you can not see whether the car is carrying anything (cattle), or, if it is, what it is. (For Boxes, you can't tell brown or green (different destinations), for milk you can't tell whether full cans or black-topped empties).

Elliot raised many interesting points - thanks

Ed

Ed, I know there are people here on the forum who share your interest. I've been very active here, over the last six and a half years, and have seen lots of posts to that effect. I can't tell you exactly who they are, but they are out there. Hopefully more of them will find this topic.

Let me give you a little of my background, which may help clear up some of my earlier remarks. I grew up in the 60's, well past Lionel's heyday. One of my favorite books was a Lionel operating and accessory manual. It had wiring diagrams and pictures of all the great postwar accessories, most of which were no longer being made. I never even owned a regular box car until MPC took over production. I always wanted those accessories, but could never find them. In the early 80's Lionel started to remake some of them, like the 464 sawmill and the oil derrick. They also made the American Flyer barrel loader. I also joined the TCA around that time, giving me access to all those great items from the past. 

Also in the 80's, I was still in HO, and frequenting operating sessions at a couple of home layouts. I really liked operating and the puzzle-like nature of it. Even though I quit HO, that whole operations thing remained.

By the early 90's, I had amassed quite the collection, but had no layout. An opportunity to create something presented itself with the building of the Mall of America, and enterTRAINment was born. By then I had every major Lionel accessory, and they all went onto the mall layout, with activation buttons for the kids to push. The layout only lasted a little over a year, but in that time there were over 100,000 paid visits.

It was five years before I started another layout. But this time I had a lot less space. I still wanted to use the accessories, but times were starting to change within the hobby. More manufacturers were making full scale trains, and I saw my taste and focus starting to shift.

I hadn't gotten very far with the layout, when we decided to build a new house. Now I could have as much space as I wanted. I opted for 1900 square feet, which was just about what I had at the mall. The basement is much larger, the train room is only about 40%. There was still a plan to use some of the accessories, but as the layout began to take shape, that faded, in  favor of more track and trains. I'm now modeling a 60 mile section of mainline through the Minneapolis and St Paul.

So you see, I've been where you are now, but I just branched off in a different direction.

The issue of "the Lion changing its mane" by making the classics look more realistic, is probably never going to happen, because it would cost a lot of money to do, for both design and tooling. But, that's where you (and your grand kids) come in. Do your own thing to make them look better.  This is a great hobby, something for everyone. Have fun!!! 

That's a great layout, Ed. I am following this thread with interest. Just to show you how varied this approach to operations might be, I model a fictional Welsh railway that features a 0-4-0. My layout follows this engine as he picks up and drops off parcels, other LCL, coal trucks, open wagons in different towns and sites from his home shed all the way to a main line junction and back. I use a series of cards that indicate what needs to be done (e.g. go to Llaniog and pick up a wagon) in what order. 

Ed M posted:

CAPPilot posted:

I will use a few operating accessories but I will use only those that a fairly realistic like the 3-car K-Line coal ramp and MTH fuel tank/pumps.

Nice layout, thanks fr your comments.

"fairly realistic" Amen! see my prior post. 

"3-car K-Line coal ramp and MTH fuel tank/pumps": I could not find them on eBay or MTH site. Any clue as to where they can be seen or purchased?

Ed

Ed,

I went down and checked the actual names of the tank and pump.  They are MTH 30-9116 Operating Oil Storage Tank and MTH 30-9117 Operating Oil Storage Tank Station.  The companion industry across the layout is made up of a Walters 3304B Oil Tank and 3304C Oil Building.

Good luck finding the K-Line coal ramp.  Every time I post a picture of it someone emails me with an offer to buy it.  Here it is with my cabins.  Also, finding the operating coal cars that work with it is difficult.  Mine are from a TTOS run from many years ago.

Anybody using operating cars, accessories, multiple locations & a yard for realistic freight operations?

Not in this house.

Ed M posted:

Is it  a valid conclusion that no one else in the hobby is doing this, has done this, or is interested in doing this? If so, why not? 

I believe in one of the OGR videos there was a guy in Buffalo NY that did exactly what you are asking. He had three cars for each industry:

One being loaded, Another unloaded and the third in a train traveling to/fro.

Ed M posted:

Interesting! clever use of limited space.

I don't recognize some of the accessories in the first video:

1. The Longhorn loader (have seen it, can't find it on eBay, don't have a number)
2. Late in the video, to the right of the light tower, looks somewhat like a sawmill with a crane, maybe labeled "Hillcrest Lum..."

 

Help, please

Ed

Lionel Operating Cattle Car 6-19800

There's one on Ebay 

f:0" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONE...Swv0dcFTfY:rk:1f:0

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Ed M posted:

Is it  a valid conclusion that no one else in the hobby is doing this, has done this, or is interested in doing this? If so, why not? 

I believe in one of the OGR videos there was a guy in Buffalo NY that did exactly what you are asking. He had three cars for each industry:

One being loaded, Another unloaded and the third in a train traveling to/fro.

Thanks!

I went looking in the OGR videos and tried the likely candidates with no success. Can you find the video and point me to it. Or give me some clues to finding it.