Repair Needed for On-Line Purchase - Who Should Fix?

I'd send it back to the place of purchase or Lionel.

1st contact place of purchase and see what they and they may require RA  so you need to get that from them

If you have a problem contact Lionel Service center for a RA number ( they require that. By the way are you a veteran if so tell Lionel and they will send you shipping label to ship it to them. 

So if you are a veteran it might be better for you to send it to Lionel

I agree with John, place of purchase or Lionel.

Yep call the seller first, then Lionel if necessary.

But remember if the seller helped you before your next purchase from them.

Why would you not take it to one of your local Lionel Authorized Service Stations? That's what they are for...repairing Lionel items no matter where they are sold.

That will be a lot more convenient that contacting the seller, who likely cannot repair it anyway.

Send back to Lionel.  Just call them to ensure you are sending to the correct location.  Further, when you tell them the issue, perhaps they will identify a quick fix that you can do without having to open up unit and/or send back.

I agree with Rich. Take advantage of the close proximity of the Service Center.

The dealer will likely just instruct you to send it to Lionel or they will forward it to Lionel  once you send it to them.

With Rich on this one.  You need a main board.  I have done several.  You live in an area with many Lionel repair persons reside.  That engine is a very good running locomotive.  Did you buy it from an authorized Lionel Dealer?

I always tell my friends to run any locomotive when they first get it if possible.  If you have a good dealer he just might have another one on the shelf and do the right thing for you.

As always, pick C.  4 of my 5 last Lionel purchases were NIB items that had a problem.  There is an authorized Lionel service station 15 minutes from my home.  Why would I box it up and mail it anywhere else?  As a side note, I always buy from authorized Lionel dealers and take in my receipt for warranty work.

POTRZBE makes a good point.  Many people sell Lionel trains.  Not many are authorized to do repairs.  If you have a certified repair Dealer available, use them.  That list can be found on the Lionel site. 

When is Lionel going to start up that Authorized Technician Course Marty? Too many Authorized Dealers who no longer have authorized repair techs.   G

YO Xray.

as a north easterner if all ales fails give Alex Mallie a call. He is a regular on the forum and has done a few repairs for me and knows the Lionel product

George, I will try to get updated info when I talk to him this week.

I have had authorized Lionel repairs places tell me that while they are required to accept  Lionel warranty repairs, they don't like doing so for people who buy the product elsewhere. If you take it locally, they will fix it but may not be particularly pleasant about it. That is their prerogative, btw.

There is a store near me that will not do warranty work on product bought elsewhere.  Another store near me will do warranty work no matter where I buy it.  Guess who gets my business for warranty and non warranty work.

I think Rich's suggestion would be easiest if you have an authorized or trusted repair center near you.  Frankly, many of them are backed up with several weeks of wait time, but dealing locally allows you to show just what is wrong and all. 

Here's an update...it's working again! I didn't do anything...honest. I went down to the basement this morning with the intention to pack the engine, tender & remote into the original box but decided, just for you know what and giggles, to turn everything on to see if it magically fixed itself. And it did!  Now what do I do? I wonder if it's a heat issue that doesn't manifest itself unless the train has been running for a good length of time. Is that possible?

Anyway, it's early morning as I write this and I have to be off to work in a little while so what I think I'm going to do is wait until this evening, or maybe the weekend, and operate the engine & tender for several hours straight in front of eight passenger cars to see if I can duplicate the problem. If I can't, I'll chalk it up to an anomaly, otherwise I'll get it repaired...somewhere.

It's interesting. The responses to my original question as to "who should fix" seems to be split roughly 50/50 between authorized service station and Lionel. I may give a couple of local facilities a call and feel them out. I suspect, while Mr. Melvin says, "that's what they are there for", I can almost guarantee you they will not be too thrilled.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I called the online (authorized) dealer I got it from (M.B. Klein/Model Train Stuff). It's 2 weeks beyond their 30 day return policy. The customer service guy put me on hold for a few minutes to ask someone but when he got back on he told me they don't fix anything and to go elsewhere.

I'm not sure I understand why they wouldn't "be too thrilled".  Are the service stations compensated for performing repair work? Are the rates for repair work set by Lionel or the service stations?  Do the Service Stations lose money when doing repairs?  What am I missing?

Steven J. Serenska

Many Lionel dealers, including some major ones, do not do repairs. Have been told our local Lionel store will only perform warranty work for items purchased there.

I would call MB Klein, Inc. Toll Free Phone: 1.888.410.2672.  Next I would drive it down to Maryland and go to the Great Model Train Show at Timonium Fair Grounds on Saturday and stop at

MB Klein (Model Train Stuff)
243-A Cockeysville Rd.
Cockeysville, MD 21030 USA

They used to have a bonus 10% off sale on one item on train show days.

Toll Free Phone: 1.888.410.2672

Steve,  MTH does not pay labor for warranty, just free parts.  Lionel I think compensates if your are a certified tech, but it probably less then minimum wage any where in the world. 

There are not that many Lionel Techs anymore.  When Lionel changed management, many older techs lost cert and a course has not been taught in many years.

So getting warranty work at a dealer is presented as a benefit of buying at the dealer.

So most of this is monetary, especially to someone doing this as a part time job.  G

Thanks very much for explaining.  This all makes sense.  Sounds to me like the dealer compensation system is not very well thought through and I wouldn't blame a dealer, under the scenario you describe, for not fixing equipment purchased elsewhere.

If it works as you say, perhaps the rule of thumb should be: Have it serviced at the place you bought it and, if this isn't possible, send it back to the manufacturer.  This would allow both the benefit and the heartache to flow toward whoever deserves it.

quote:

So most of this is monetary, especially to someone doing this as a part time job.  G

Last I knew, in order to be an authorized service station, one had to have a physical store. Has that changed?
If it hasn't, I would think that the store's repair person would be paid hourly, not based on whether the work is a warrantee repair. (I guess that would be between the store and repair person)

If not, then I guess doing warrantee repairs is the price you pay for getting your parts discounted.

From what I've been told by people who were involved, during the postwar period, stores did not make much money (if any) repairing trains. The profit was in the things customers would purchase while they were there.

Well i purchased a TIU from my LHS and the TIU quit working, i took it back where i bought it from my local hobby shop he called MTH in Maryland and they told him it would take them a month to get to it. He Got an RMA number mailed it off and told me don't worry I'll make it right with you if it takes to long to get it fixed! that's the way you want to be treated and is the advantage of purchasing from a local hobby shop,we have become good friend , he helps me when he can and I return the favor and help him also.I've even brought him new customers! this is the kind of place to purchase trains of any brand , he stands behind what he sell, and i don't have to take the chance of shipping an expensive engine away and possibly get damaged due to SHIPPING and we all know that bad story!

MTH actually fixed my TIU in less then 2 weeks and now works perfectly. MTH makes a great product and stands behind there warrantry

Alan

We don't fix anything, go somewhere else!!!

That's exactly what I would do...permanently.

 Online isn't always the advantage it's made out to be.

  The percentage of the problem purchases I've had online, compared to offline, its awful. I had better luck with the old phone/mail-order by far, and that wasn't so hot.

 Receiving satisfaction from them, is much less likely than from the brick building nearest you.

 Does shell removal void a warranty now? That would be pretty dumb in my eyes.

All the shipping, and BS for permission to go over loose plugs alone makes it a dumb move, if that's so. In fact my whole life every new engine received by my Grandfather was opened, and inspected visually before it was run on track. And that was when the only plugs were external, for tenders & e units.

Talking Lionel or MTH?  In general I think yes, but you see a lot of independent folks and I think both manufactures may make exceptions.  I am one for MTH.

I don't know the employee relationship at the store, maybe your model is a little dated though.  From what I see at my stores, they can't afford an hourly wage for a repair tech, unless the tech manages the store or is a sales rep to.  2 of the 3 don't have extra employees, just the owner.

So if you are the employer paying someone to sell trains to your customer, do you want him working on a non customer train in the back room on your dime?

Since we are talking warranty, no charges to the person, so nothing to be made off parts.

You could spend 30 minutes to hr figuring out an issue that ultimately is a cold solder joint, or broken wire, or a $2 part.

It is the model, that all I am stating.  Plenty of post on how some stores will do it trying to gain a customer.

The other factor is some techs only have skills that go so far and once they see a problem they know is not in their comfort zone, they would rather it go to manufacturer.  Do you expect the store to do this and track it, all for a person not their customer?  G

By the time this is done being beaten to death, the locomotive could be fixed.  ;-)

As a general rule of thumb, out of fairness and a sense of decency to those with whom I do business, I won't ask a dealer to fix something I didn't buy there.  I understand they may be "obligated" to fix it, but the economics of it to them stink and there is a significant chance that this will be reflected in the quality of the repair.  

If it is a situation where it was mail-order, if shipping it anyways for resolution I would prefer to send it back to Lionel or MTH.  This also has the effect of placing the cost of the defect where it most fairly belongs.  MTH is driving distance to me -- a short distance -- and so the one time I had an issue with an MTH product I dropped it off for repair on a Friday and picked it up that Monday.  

If it is a repair or upgrade on my dime, I would simply email GGG and send it to him.  There are other good folks too but my experience is that his work is top notch and it is a no brainer.  

I understand they may be "obligated" to fix it, but the economics of it to them stink and there is a significant chance that this will be reflected in the quality of the repair.

Ray Lombardo, are you saying that the repair shop is so unscrupulous that they would sabotage a repair job?  Or if not sabotage it, do a half hearted effort?  I can't see anyone staying in business too long with that business model.

quote:

Talking Lionel or MTH?  In general I think yes, but you see a lot of independent folks and I think both manufactures may make exceptions.  I am one for MTH.

I should have specified Lionel.

(The thread started out as a discussion about where to bring a Lionel engine)

No, not at all.  Rather just a reflection of the realities of what happens when a business activity generates no profits, or worse, losses.  Yes, sometimes a loss leading activity can lead to customer goodwill that results in greater profits.  But today, with margins being what they are and customer loyalty being subject to whatever the person can find at a better price on the internet, such notions are under pressure and owners are less willing to put out capital for an uncertain return.  Stated differently, it has nothing to do with morals and scruples and it is not a judgment on the store owner or the customer but a reflection of a culture consumed with cheapness.

I love it in particular when folks criticize Lionel, MTH, and others for moving off shore and then in a different discussion you'll hear complaints about the price increases in the new catalogs.  Fellas, do you know what those trains would cost to make here? Makes those price increases in the catalogs seem like child's play.  

But frankly, I think the original point was pretty clear.  Take care.  

To the OP:

Lots of back and forth here on the issue of "who to repair, " but I've got a suggestion on trouble-shooting your problem. May or may not be relevant but let's just say I have the same LC+ loco (even bought it at M.B. Klein) and had a similar experience.

Check the tether connection whenever you have spotty performance -- sound, jerky starts, no starts, etc. The tether connection may look like its secure but on mine I've found by taking thumb and forefinger and squeezing it tightly it will sometimes improve the connection between the loco and tender. You can actually hear it click into place.   

Again, you may be having another issue but thought I'd mention this.

As the O.P., I'll relate what my plan is going to be.

First of all, I visited in person the local authorized service station and dealer who happens to be 5 minutes from my office. It's an interesting store called, "Feels Like Home", in the center of Newton, NJ. They have an eclectic mix of all kinds of merchandise from herbal teas, scented candles and all kinds of decorative "stuff" for colonial style homes as well as Lionel & MTH trains. Bill, the owner, is a certified factory trained tech for both MTH and Lionel and does his own repairs. We schmoozed for awhile. I bought an antique Plasticville train depot and we discussed my problem.

On his website, there is a statement that due to being swamped with a high volume of repairs, he is currently not accepting any more for the time being, but he agreed with my plan to run the engine for several hours and see if the problem repeats itself. He admitted he has little experience with LionChief or LC+ but agreed to at least take a look at it and if necessary would do some research on how to fix but based on my description of the problem he thought it might be a crack in the main board or possibly a solder joint that expands when it gets warm.

I asked Bill how he's reimbursed from Lionel, telling him I bought the LC+ elsewhere. He confirmed what has been discussed previously on this thread that the parts are free and he is compensated for his time, albeit at an extremely low hourly rate. Nevertheless, he said not to feel guilty, that Rich Melvin is correct in his statement, "That's what they are there for." So if and when it comes down to it, I've found a place where I will take my repair business.

I'll update this thread as the situation develops.

P.S. Thanks to johnstrains for the tip about the tether connection. I'll definitely check that out.

I would not think any authorized dealer (Lionel or MTH) smiles when he fixes something that another dealer made the sale of in the first place.  Anyone who thinks he can make a living fixing trains believes in Santa Clause.  The majority of train guys looking for service are decent.  The guys that are B busters usually buy the bottom line trains and make the most noise.  Dealing with such people is not fun.  FYI, fixing trains is not a fun job.  People who read and reside on this forum can get some great advice.  I have my list of posters who I read everything they post.  I love to learn and this is the place to get it done.  

One thing I learned early in life is to listen to the guy who has been there and done that.  I also learned to stay clear from the guy who heard something somewhere from some guy about something.  Anyone looking for advice that has been around the Forum for a while kwill know who to listen to.  This forum is a source for great information and it is well run.  I consider it the best on the net. 

Not owning but being associated with several LHS dealers over the years, I have seen guys come in to look at a new engine, take it out of the box and look at it, have it test run on a short track, and then said "I'll go home and think about it." Then, buy it for a lower price on-line and have it not work out-of-the-box, so bring it to the LHS and ask them to fix it for free under the warranty terms.

I have seen folks return a train set near the end of the holidays after having run it under their Christmas tree for a week and expect to receive a full refund from the LHS.

Any local dealer can tell you similar stories from their own experience.

See why they are not happy about repairing trains purchased elsewhere?

Well said Dave.

So going forward I think that everyone should just throw out anything defective and not expect service, warranty or otherwise. After that we can just send cash to the poor unfortunate hobby shop owners and repair people along with those poor manufacturers.

It is truly shameful to think that anyone would want to help someone since all customers are out to cheat business owners, repair techs, and manufacturers.

Apparently this hobby has no good in it anymore with all of the bad. What a shame.

Jeff,  I don't think guys were saying that.  Lets not push to either extreme left or right.  Folks did ask some questions why a shop would not want to do the repair.

Plenty of reasons were given as examples.  Nothing more.  The manufactures are there as needed.

Just like guys/gals who don't work on cars, look to find that honest mechanic who always treats them right.  Same hear.  If you find one you keep him.  Not all mechanics are the same.

Folks have to recognize that a dealer who never sees you as a customer except as a warranty repair isn't going to be over joyed.  And some shops only have tech with certain skill sets.  No one is busting down door to become a train repair guy.

Except me, I have been bugging to be a Lionel Tech for over 5 years.  So I have become self taught, like so many others!   G

quote:

Just like guys/gals who don't work on cars, look to find that honest mechanic who always treats them right.  Same hear.  If you find one you keep him.  Not all mechanics are the same.

Absolutely. Compound that by the fact that skill levels vary even among honest mechanics.

I think that if I used a Lionel authorized service station for warrantee work on an item that I did not purchase there, and I was not a regular customer, I would buy something, and consider becoming a regular.