Resurrection Monday

For 20 years, since the time I built my layout, my trains have slowed down as I run them on the far left side of my layout as I face it sitting at my transformer.

I know the basics of providing feeder wires to provide power at every few track sections. 

I thought my problem was related to the fact that I have 4 crossing gates activated by insulated rails where 2 reverse loops are. The crossing gates draw their power from a ZW that powers my accessories, not from an MTH Z 4000 that powers my 2 main lines.

Here's a video showing how the train slows down at this spot on my layout:

Last night, my train doctor came over and solved this 20 year old layout problem in 5 minutes. All he did was connect 2 lock-ons, and wires between them, at 2 points near where the mainline power drops off. 

I will post another video later this morning showing the improvement in the performance of the train at this location. Arnold

Above shows the problem (voltage drop), below is the solution (feeder wires), and the video below shows the result:

I can't believe I could not figure out how to solve this problem for 20 years. I feel like an idiot.

My confusion had to do with the fact that I thought my crossing gates caused the power shortage to the track, and that was irrational. The gates are powered from a separate transformer from the one powering the track.

My train doctor logically solved the problem step by step in a few minutes. First, he had me turn off the power to the crossing gates and ran the train. No difference. Still had same power shortage.

Then, he placed the lock-ons and 2 short feeder wires, first where the power was still strong, and next where the power was starting to weaken on the track sections with the insulated rail. Problem solved.

Then, we ran the train again with the power supplied to the crossing gates. They worked fine and the train still ran well without slowing down.

So today is Resurrection Monday for my layout.

We would all love to hear of any Ressurrection stories you may like to share. Since we are just starting this thread, don't limit your story to something that happened this weekend; feel free to share any such story whenever it happened. Arnold

still a work in progress......

dirty, rust, missing parts

finished this up the other day

came in a batch of four wheel cars someone had tried to add trucks to by crimping the side frame over. Didn't work very well, so they tried to turn this one back into a four wheel car.

This will be a interesting post to follow, Thank you Arnold.

Here is a 253 before and after that I did a year or two ago.
When I started to work on it bit had so much paint on it that I had to pry the shell from the frame.

Arnold since all you needed was a jumper I guess there was some conductivity issue with a track section between the two lock-ons.

I have been posting on the "Buy anything cool lately" thread about my experiences resurrecting the American Flyer 312 I bought at a train show on Nov. 4, so I won't bother repeating all that here.  But I can report on my current progress.

With the reverse unit installed in the tender, I have turned my attention to my least-favorite part of restoration: painting.  I put a coat of Krylon Flat Black on the tender, though it's actually more like Semigloss than flat.  Then I tried to put a "Pennsylvania" dry transfer on it before sealing the whole thing with clear flat finish.  Unfortunately, it seems that my PRR transfer sheet -- which is pretty old -- has dried out, because the lettering won't stick to the tender at all.  I'm going to have to send for some new transfers.  And yes, I know I could use decals, but I don't like decals and have always used dry transfers in the past and that's what I prefer, so I'm going to stick with them (no pun intended).

The locomotive boiler shell itself doesn't need repainting, except for a couple of tiny spots near the rear of the cab that can easily be touched up with a fine brush.  So the only remaining painting to do is the PRR keystone on the boiler front.  My eyes aren't what they used to be, so I've been doing it with a jeweler's loupe.  I finished the red background last night, and will probably do the yellow edging tonight, if I have time.

When the Flyer shoulder screw arrives from The Train Tender, I'll attach the NOS trailing truck that I got from eBay last week to the locomotive frame.  Then I'll wire in the LED headlight and put it all back together (I've already cleaned and polished the rods and valve gear).

Meantime, I'll be ordering some MV lenses for the marker lights on locomotive and tender.

I'm waiting till I get the locomotive reassembled to take any more photos, but here are a couple I took in the early stages of restoration.  This is the tender, just after I installed the reverse unit (the previous owner had ripped the original unit out):

I know the wiring looks pretty sloppy, but I wanted to be sure everything was long enough to reach the locomotive when I put the tender shell back on.

This is the rest of the 312, sitting on a DVD shelf in my basement, waiting for attention.  At this point, I hadn't yet done anything to it, though you can see the new trailing truck sitting just behind the cab:

If this thread survives that long, I'll post updates to this project here.

Arnold - thanks for posting. Good topic. When I got into O Gauge, my dad bought me portable voltmeter. Were you ever able to measure the voltage at the point where you had the power drop? 

I had all kinds of similar problems with my first layout. I was such a newbie and didn't know how to wire power-hungry, track-side accessories to separate transformers. I remember trains coming to a crawl when the Automatic Gateman would pop out because I had wired to track power.  Much better with my new layout.

Arnold, sometimes the forest gets in the way of the trees.....LOL

What is particulatly impressive are the before and after photos.

Very good idea when you obtain a junk train to take photos of it. Then, after you fix, restore and resurrect it, to take additional photos.

The same can be done taking before and after photos when any problem with a layout gets resolved, or any improvement to a layout occurs.

You can then attach the photos to your posts on this Resurrection Monday thread explaining exactly what you have done.

Great work, my fellow train miracle workers!

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

What is particulatly impressive are the before and after photos.

Very good idea when you obtain a junk train to take photos of it. Then, after you fix, restore and resurrect it, to take additional photos.

The same can be done taking before and after photos when any problem with a layout gets resolved, or any improvement to a layout occurs.

You can then attach the photos to your posts on this Resurrection Monday thread explaining exactly what you have done.

Great work, my fellow miracle workers!

Arnold

Thank you for creating this post.
There is a lot to learn from people posting the before and after photos as someone may be working on the same train or layout problem. 

raising4daughters posted:

Arnold - thanks for posting. Good topic. When I got into O Gauge, my dad bought me portable voltmeter. Were you ever able to measure the voltage at the point where you had the power drop? 

Yes, I have the MTH Z 4000 for track power that showed a voltage drop of about 4 volts where the train used to slow down.

Hi Kids, this is one of the resurrections that I recently did. A few weeks ago I purchased three pw 6460 Bucyrus cranes. Two were in real nice condition, but the third had the plastic screw sleeves w/ the holes that hold the cab on the frame were stripped and broken.

Here's what I did to resurrect this Bucyrus crane.

Material: tube of Krazy glue.  #3 phillips head screws 1" lg. (not sure screw size, but I know they're smaller then #4).   drill bit #48, .076 .

Pic 1: filled broken sleeves w/ stripped screw holes w/ Krazy glue. Let set over night to completely set up.

Pic 2: drilled new holes using #48, .076 drill bit. Cleaning drill bit off after drilling each hole.

Pic 3: slow and easily thread new screws (#3 phillips head) approx. 1/4" - 3/8" into the newly drilled holes. Estimate the excess amount to cut off of the screw to keep it at the total length you need. Re-thread screws back into the hole to make sure you have the proper length. 

Pic 4: Set cab on frame and thread screws into new holes til snugged.

 Resurrected this one this year finally got it done going to work on the other unit soon 

This crane tender has been knocking about my workbench for literally years with no trucks or chimney and with a hole in the roof.  Fabricated a replacement chimney from Plastruct tubing,  filled in the hole with Squadron Green,  pulled a couple staple end trucks from my truck box and painted the repair areas black to simulate a hot tar repair!  

Mitch 

Picked up this B&M 6464 shell for a $1.00 at a train show and did a patch roof repair and used parts laying around parts bin. 6464 boxcars run great. 

Still need to get door rails

franktrain posted:

Picked up this B&M 6464 shell for a $1.00 at a train show and did a patch roof repair and used parts laying around parts bin. 6464 boxcars run great. 

 

Still need to get door rails

 

Frank, it looks as though you cut a piece from a (junk, I presume) donor car to replace the damaged section of the B&M's roof.  Could you give us some details about how you're going to color-match the new section?  I'm always open to advice, since painting is my least favorite part of any restoration project.

--John

Balshis posted 

Frank, it looks as though you cut a piece from a (junk, I presume) donor car to replace the damaged section of the B&M's roof.  Could you give us some details about how you're going to color-match the new section?  I'm always open to advice, since painting is my least favorite part of any restoration project.

Actually, I'd leave the patch and mismatched doors as-is.  Like with my crane tender,  it adds character to the car. 

Mitch 

Here is my little resurrection project I am about to start. I picked these up from the forum’s for sale section. These are Marx 3/16 scale tin passenger cars that need a little TLC. I originally thought I was going to replace the Marx trucks with Lionel, but after seeing how these cars sit nice and low on these trucks, I will just make a transition car with a knuckle coupler on one end and a Marx coupler on the other.  

Given that they are all in pretty rough shape, I decided I wanted to paint them as the Norfolk and Western ‘Powhatan Arrow’ ... in case I ever come across a NW J that isn’t cost prohibitive. Goal is to disassemble the cars, remove the rust, reattach or recreate the window silhouettes, paint, decal, and reassemble. I had to order some new wheel axles yesterday as well. 

JD2035RR posted:

Here is my little resurrection project I am about to start. I picked these up from the forum’s for sale section. These are Marx 3/16 scale tin passenger cars that need a little TLC. I originally thought I was going to replace the Marx trucks with Lionel, but after seeing how these cars sit nice and low on these trucks, I will just make a transition car with a knuckle coupler on one end and a Marx coupler on the other.  Given that they are all in pretty rough shape, I decided I wanted to paint them as the Norfolk and Western ‘Powhatan Arrow’ ... in case I ever come across a NW J that isn’t cost prohibitive. Goal is to disassemble the cars, remove the rust, reattach or recreate the window silhouettes, paint, decal, and reassemble. I had to order some new wheel axles yesterday as well. 

Looks like a fun project, keep up updated on your progress

there was a guy on the Marx Yahoo site that made a NW J from a Marx CP steamer, used half of a plastic Easter egg for the nose. Looked really good.

You folks do some very nice restorations of those old worn out trains!  It's also nice that you can see the potential in these old items for what they can be instead of what they are when found.  I have trouble with that and would have probably left some of those for dead. 

I totally agree with RTR12.

Those among us who can raise broken and battered trains from the dead are the best among us, IMO. They are the train doctors.  I tip my hat to all of you who can do this.

Arnold

There are some extremely talented folks around here, and in all other aspects of the hobby as well. 

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Balshis posted 

Frank, it looks as though you cut a piece from a (junk, I presume) donor car to replace the damaged section of the B&M's roof.  Could you give us some details about how you're going to color-match the new section?  I'm always open to advice, since painting is my least favorite part of any restoration project.

Actually, I'd leave the patch and mismatched doors as-is.  Like with my crane tender,  it adds character to the car. 

Mitch 

Yes I have left the car as is and do not intend to paint.

The patch is made from a adhesive backed soft metal that I had laying around for years. I only have a small piece left. I like the way it looks.

Mitch, I did the same thing with the same caboose except I did not install a smoke stack. I liked the box beaten weathered look.

JD2035RR posted:

Here is my little resurrection project I am about to start. I picked these up from the forum’s for sale section. These are Marx 3/16 scale tin passenger cars that need a little TLC. I originally thought I was going to replace the Marx trucks with Lionel, but after seeing how these cars sit nice and low on these trucks, I will just make a transition car with a knuckle coupler on one end and a Marx coupler on the other.  

JD2035RR

I have some of these passenger cars(need to verify) If your interested maybe we can make a deal. Contact me with my email.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Above shows the problem (voltage drop), below is the solution (feeder wires), and the video below shows the result:

I can't believe I could not figure out how to solve this problem for 20 years. I feel like an idiot.

My confusion had to do with the fact that I thought my crossing gates caused the power shortage to the track, and that was irrational. The gates are powered from a separate transformer from the one powering the track.

My train doctor logically solved the problem step by step in a few minutes. First, he had me turn off the power to the crossing gates and ran the train. No difference. Still had same power shortage.

Then, he placed the lock-ons and 2 short feeder wires, first where the power was still strong, and next where the power was starting to weaken on the track sections with the insulated rail. Problem solved.

Then, we ran the train again with the power supplied to the crossing gates. They worked fine and the train still ran well without slowing down.

So today is Resurrection Monday for my layout.

We would all love to hear of any Ressurrection stories you may like to share. Since we are just starting this thread, don't limit your story to something that happened this weekend; feel free to share any such story whenever it happened. Arnold

The train still appears to slow as it moves around the reversing loop.  If you can reach it try a lockon prior to the switch that starts the loop to a point on the loop track where it comes back to the switch.

Look at the light on your caboose. Coming into the loop the light is bright.  As it gets to the end of the loop it is dimmer.  As soon as it is back on the switch it is bright again.

Bought an AA set of 2343 F3s several years ago. Powered unit had a beat up shell but moved, dummy A had no shell. Got the pair for $50. Cleaned/tuned up the powered unit and got it running great. Repainted the frames, truck sides, and pilot shields, and pilots silver. Picked up a pair of new in box Conventional Classics replacement shells, a Santa Fe Railsounds II F3 B unit, and another early 90's Sants Fe F3 B unit. The ABBA F3 set hauls the El Capitan on my layout. 

Last week I had a UCS track malfunction. Press uncouple and it would cycle the e-unit. Checked controller and track section no obvious shorts. Finally Sunday night looked at the controller very carefully, upside down with cord toward me, contacts on right side on on top were just touching. Separated them slightly and that fixed it! I'm no expert, but I have been repairing trains as well as other things long enough to know it is usually something simple. Hope this might help someone.

Chris 

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Above shows the problem (voltage drop), below is the solution (feeder wires), and the video below shows the result:

I can't believe I could not figure out how to solve this problem for 20 years. I feel like an idiot.

My confusion had to do with the fact that I thought my crossing gates caused the power shortage to the track, and that was irrational. The gates are powered from a separate transformer from the one powering the track.

My train doctor logically solved the problem step by step in a few minutes. First, he had me turn off the power to the crossing gates and ran the train. No difference. Still had same power shortage.

Then, he placed the lock-ons and 2 short feeder wires, first where the power was still strong, and next where the power was starting to weaken on the track sections with the insulated rail. Problem solved.

Then, we ran the train again with the power supplied to the crossing gates. They worked fine and the train still ran well without slowing down.

Arnold

The train still appears to slow as it moves around the reversing loop.  If you can reach it try a lockon prior to the switch that starts the loop to a point on the loop track where it comes back to the switch.

Look at the light on your caboose. Coming into the loop the light is bright.  As it gets to the end of the loop it is dimmer.  As soon as it is back on the switch it is bright again.

Thanks Bill.  I also noticed the train still slowed down a little, and I agree that repositioning the lock-ons might eliminate that.  However, the train is going through a reverse loop and through town, and I want the train to slow down a little, not a lot. Arnold

Update on my Flyer 312 resurrection:

I installed the LED headlight in the locomotive last night.  After that, it was time to reassemble it, and I painstakingly fit the chassis to the boiler shell and applied the side rods and valve gear.  And if I do say so myself, it looked great.

Then a sudden doubt hit me.  I knew the wiring to the tender was royally screwed up by the previous owner, all of which I had corrected.  What if the locomotive's wiring had been tampered with, as well?  I connected the tender (whose shell is still being repainted), plugged in the tether and applied track power, and...

Nothing.  The e-unit clicks and turns, but the locomotive shows no signs of life.

Duhhh...  Why didn't I think to check the locomotive functionality with the now-correctly-wired tender before I reassembled it?  We live and learn, I guess.  Next step is to disassemble the locomotive again and check its wiring against my 312 wiring diagram, so it's done right.  When that's done, and I've reassembled it once more, I'll post more photos. 

In case you missed it: 

https://ogrforum.com/...tation-by-mini-craft

Mitch 

In the 3rd reply on this thread, there is a video showing a  Postwar steamer slowing down a little as it approaches the switch on the far side of the layout near the wall.

Now take a look at the video below showing a LionChief Plus steamer approaching the same switch:

This demonstrates one of the big advantages of modern, technologically advanced trains. The slight voltage drop near that switch slows down the Postwar train; but the modern LC+ train is not affected by that voltage drop at all. 

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Above shows the problem (voltage drop), below is the solution (feeder wires), and the video below shows the result:

I can't believe I could not figure out how to solve this problem for 20 years. I feel like an idiot.

My confusion had to do with the fact that I thought my crossing gates caused the power shortage to the track, and that was irrational. The gates are powered from a separate transformer from the one powering the track.

My train doctor logically solved the problem step by step in a few minutes. First, he had me turn off the power to the crossing gates and ran the train. No difference. Still had same power shortage.

Then, he placed the lock-ons and 2 short feeder wires, first where the power was still strong, and next where the power was starting to weaken on the track sections with the insulated rail. Problem solved.

Then, we ran the train again with the power supplied to the crossing gates. They worked fine and the train still ran well without slowing down.

Arnold

The train still appears to slow as it moves around the reversing loop.  If you can reach it try a lockon prior to the switch that starts the loop to a point on the loop track where it comes back to the switch.

Look at the light on your caboose. Coming into the loop the light is bright.  As it gets to the end of the loop it is dimmer.  As soon as it is back on the switch it is bright again.

Thanks Bill.  I also noticed the train still slowed down a little, and I agree that repositioning the lock-ons might eliminate that.  However, the train is going through a reverse loop and through town, and I want the train to slow down a little, not a lot. Arnold

There is a side issue that may or may not be important.  The fact that the voltage drops indicates a bad connection.  Generally speaking, if you have a bad connection you also have heat building up at that point.  Apparently it is not enough of a problem that your downtown is going to burn down like Paradise, Ca. but it may be worth the effort to identify the poor connection point.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

In the 3rd reply on this thread, there is a video showing a  Postwar steamer slowing down a little as it approaches the switch on the far side of the layout near the wall.

Now take a look at the video below showing a LionChief Plus steamer approaching the same switch:

This demonstrates one of the big advantages of modern, technologically advanced trains. The slight voltage drop near that switch slows down the Postwar train; but the modern LC+ train is not affected by that voltage drop at all. 

Arnold

 

Hi Arnold, First, I like watching your vids of your layout.

Looks like your electrical problem was solved, but, looking at the first vid where your problem was solved and the engine slightly slows up a little at the switch. Is that a pw 736 (2-8-4) engine ? If it is, I think the slowing up right at the switch may be do to that tight track radius at the switch causing the drive wheel flanges (1st and 4th) on the engine to slightly bind on the track.  

Thanks again to Bill & Trussman. You both know things about electricity and electrical connections that I don't know.

It's a minor miracle that my trains run at all. My wiring is my own creation. Instead of making 2 bus wires (one power and the other ground) underneath my train tables and then dropping feeder wires from every few feet of track to the bus wires,  I had all of the feeder wires come all the way back to copper strips just in front of the MTH Z4000 transformer and I soldered all the feeder wires to the appropriate copper strips. I also ran 2 short wires from the transformer and soldered them to the appropriate copper strip.

I'm not sure if my mess of wires causes the voltage drops. However, after spending several hours this afternoon adjusting my wiring, I decided to keep the layout "as is" through the holiday season, and then in January I will completely re-wire my layout using the proper bus wire/feeder wire technique.

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Thanks again to Bill & Trussman. You both know things about electricity and electrical connections that I don't know.

It's a minor miracle that my trains run at all. My wiring is my own creation. Instead of making 2 bus wires (one power and the other ground) underneath my train tables and then dropping feeder wires from every few feet of track to the bus wires,  I had all of the feeder wires come all the way back to copper strips just in front of the MTH Z4000 transformer and I soldered all the feeder wires to the appropriate copper strips. I also ran 2 short wires from the transformer and soldered them to the appropriate copper strip.

I'm not sure if my mess of wires causes the voltage drops. However, after spending several hours this afternoon adjusting my wiring, I decided to keep the layout "as is" through the holiday season, and then in January I will completely re-wire my layout using the proper bus wire/feeder wire technique.

Arnold

If you are going to the effort use #14 copper wire or better.  Depending on the size wire you used there is nothing wrong with the way it is currently wired.

Actually, the only train in my collection that needed "resurrection" was my Lionel standard gauge #42.  When I got it, it was in beautiful original condition on the outside, but all the wires were cut on the inside.  I had no idea how it was wired.  I brought it to Nassau Hobby and his repair guy there figured out the wiring schematic and re-wired the loco.  Best $100.00 i ever spent.

Continuing with the resurrection saga of my Flyer 312:

As I knew I'd have to, I disassembled the locomotive, to find out why it wouldn't turn over, even though the tender-mounted reverse unit was operating.  Sure enough, although I had the wires arranged correctly, the previous owner (whom I have now mentally dubbed "Apefinger") had left the world's ugliest solder joint on the tether-to-field-coil wire.  And then, just to complete his artistic triumph, he inexpertly covered it up with adhesive tape, in a big, sticky wad. 

I unwound the gob of adhesive tape (getting ancient goo all over my fingers in the process), and discovered the fine field-coil wire had broken off at the enormous blob of solder.  I removed the pound and a half of old solder and replaced Apefingers' tether wire with a length of modern wire, securing the joint with a bit of heat-shrink tubing.

But, as I soon discovered, there was another problem as well.  The e-unit was turning over correctly, but the locomotive still didn't move.  On closer inspection, I discovered that the e-unit's lower two contact fingers were slightly loose, bent and out of alignment.  They looked as though they were making contact with the drum, but they weren't.

I removed the plastic plate holding the fingers, lightly polished the contacts with crocus cloth and carefully bent them back into proper shape.  Then I put a small drop of super glue at the base of each, to hold them in proper alignment, and put the plate back on the e-unit.

Success!  With transformer power applied, the e-unit turned over and the locomotive went through its forward/reverse cycle!  It was getting late by then, so I reassembled the K5, put a bit of touchup paint on it here and there and called it a night.

Still working on painting the tender shell, and I have to order a set of PRR dry transfers from Clover House after the holiday.  Also need to get some MV lenses for the marker lights.  When that's done, I will turn to fabricating a new drawbar.

 Meanwhile, I'll try to get a photo of the rejuvenated locomotive later on today.  Hope everyone is enjoying their Thanksgiving!

Balshis, is Apefinger a member of this Forum? If not, that could easily be my nickname someday the way I solder. LOL.

Great job getting that engine running again. You truly are a Train Doctor.

Happy Thanksgiving, Arnold