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I received two of the new WBB EZ Street sedans from Nassau Hobby Center today, only  52 hours after ordering (UPS Ground took two days, yes, but they were shipped the same day as ordered!).  These are exciting - the first major new product investment by anyone in 'Streets in quite a while.  That bodes well for the future.

 

My Take on the Stock Vehicle

These vehicles feel solid and nicely heavy in the hand.  Not the most detailed of bodies - not fully up to even low-end 1:43 diecast standards maybe, but they are acceptable.  They have a very generic mid '50s look: sort of a 1954 Desoto-Packard-Pontiac-Ford.  In addition, I thinkif you put a Rolls Royce grill and dual headlights on one, particularly the cranberry/cream one in the first photo, they could pass as an acceptable model of a late 70s - '80s Rolls Royce.  

I will let everyone decide for him/herself if they are 1:48 or 1:43 in scale - they certainly mix right in with 1:43 diecast: The photo below shows one of mine with a diecast 1:43 '56 Ford (White Rose, I think).  They are almost exactly the same size.

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Below is my other one in comparison to a Brookline '54 DeSoto.  In particular note the size of the wheels/tires.  This WBB sedan has "car size" tires.  That bodes well of bashing as only the Lionel Vintage truck had "car size" wheels among all previous offerings (more comments on the wheels later).

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Running them.  Out of the box both of mine stuttered badly, stalling in places.  I oiled them just in case (had to open them up to get at the gears) and cleaned their rollers and wheels very well.  I don't know if those were dirty, or like some locos, had a thin protective coating.  Anyway, cleaning helped .  They still stuttered but I ran them in and they seemed to get better.  They ran very well on clean track at realistic highway speeds after about 1/2 hour of running - they run a tiny bit slower than previous 'Streets stock vehicles.

 

Like all previous 'Streets vehicles, they are fitted with a full-wave rectifer from track feed to motor, and so they run only forward, regardless if fed AC or DC power, they don't care.  I ran mine on both and there is no difference in how they perform. (You can, of course, remove the bridge rectifier inside them and wire the motor directly - then they will run only on DC, but will now backup if polarity is reversed.)

 

Taking them apart and looking inside them (see photo below).   They come apart easily - three small easy to extract screws and the plastic body comes right off.  The interior (just the front bench seat and dash) is held on with six even smaller screws and comes off in two parts: dashboard and steering wheel, and front bench seat: smart someone is already thinking of mixing parts, etc., in future models.  

This is an all-new chassis/body design, unlike anything before.  The motor and the bridge rectifier appear to be the same type as in past 'Streets vehicles but everything else is new. 

Metal chassis with plastic body. The chassis is metal - very thick metal, and very heavy.  Basically the sedan feels heavy because of the chassis.  The body is thin plastic: not fragile but close to it.  This is a significant and meaningful change.  Except for very early K-line vans (those made in the first year of production - I think 2002, something like that), all 'Streets vehicles have had a fairly light plastic chassis and a heavy diecast metal body.  Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, except, they need a heavy diecast body to provide enough weight to hold down the center rollers down on the track against their springs.  You can install another body on them to convert them to something different, but it has to be diecast metal or you have to find a way to add a lot of weight to a plastic body.  

     Now that is no longer necessary.  You can bash these puppies by installing a light plastic body if you want, or still use a metal diecast: it won't hurt if it weighs more, but it does not need to.  This chassis weigts enough to run without the body on in, fact.  You can't do that with Lionel and K-Line plastic chassis.

New center rollers.  When WBB took over 'Streets they converted the the one vehcile they offered up to now, the old K-Line/Lionel Ford van, to roller pickups.  These sedans have a new but similar design roller: like the WBB vans they telescope directly up and down, and are not lever types.  

The wheels I've mentioned.  They are very important to me for potential bashing projects: car-size wheels. 

Slide3

 

The chassis is adjustable, something WBB promised at York a year+ ago and that was discussed on another thread about these new sedans.  You loosed two screws and can lengthed or shorten the chassis in increments controlled by teeth that engage (see below).  

Slide4

 

Bashing this will be both easy in one way, and a challenge in another.  The challenge will be cutting this chassis - woe be onto you if you have to - its heavy metal and thick.  On the other hand, you often won't have to do any cutting: it can adjust nicelyby almost an inch in length (see note about this at the end).  

And here is my very "bash": okay, they one does not look perfect: I need to do just a bit of grinding so I can move the chassis forward about 1/16th inch in the body and find a better front pumper attachment.  But this took all of five minutes to complete: I shortened the chassis all the way (from the stock length shown) which took less than a minute, and drilled some mounted holes and screw it down.  It runs slightly better than stock (short wheelbases always do - see note below the photo).    

And I'm thinking about that DeSoto.  I would have to adjust  the wheelbase 1/4 inch longer but it looks like the chassis would fit, easily. I might have clearance problems inside given how thick the Brookline castings are.  Won't know 'till I try.  But that's a pretty expensive model to take apart - I'm still thinking. 

Slide5

 

Note: since all stock 'Streets vehicles have two fixed axles, they struggle in turns because they are pushing their wheels at an angle against the outer rail as they power around the curve.  The longer the wheelbase, the worse the angle and the more they fight the curve.  

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Last edited by Lee Willis
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I DISCOVERED WHAT I REGARD AS A FLAW IN THESE THINGS.  

This morning my Milk Truck (see initial posting) would just not run smoothly.  Eventually, I checked the other, still still-stock sedan I have.  I ran even worse that the Milk Truck, it than it had yesterday.  I cleaned wheels and rollers, etc.  No better.  

 

Below are two short videos.  The first shows a new, stock, WBB panel van - I took it out of the box this morning.  It runs fine, proving the track is clean, etc. and showing what I considered acceptable performance is.   The second shows the still-stock sedan - that's not acceptable.  After theseI have a photo and discuss what I think is wrong, why, and how I plan to try to fix it. 

 

 

 A new WBB panel van.

Here is the sedan running at the same power setting on the same track not even a minute later. 

 

 

 

I think the problem is that the spring tension in the central rollers is much too weak.  While holding the green sedan in my hand and studying its underside, I noticed that the front center pickup was not extended as far as the rear one.  I wiggled it slightly and it popped  out another 1/8 inch or so, as it should have been.  As I played with it, I noticed there was barely any spring tension at all.  I checked the back roller - it had no more tension - very weak.  I checked the other sedan (okay, it's a milk truck now).  the same, almost no tension.  , I checked the WBB panel van (the one in the video above) and both of its center rollers had had much more tension than those on the sedan.  I looked at a few other stock vehicles, Lionel and K-Line.  All had much more tension.    

 

 

Forward spring

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Last edited by Lee Willis

I'm going to check.  It appears to be very easy to remove the assemblies.  Not sure about disassembling them though.  They are a new type (to me) - never seen the before and I will study them some first.  I'm thinking of maybe trying, initially, to insert a small spacer just to compress the spring a bit - easier to do even if it does use up some of the spring movement room.  Not the most elegant solution but easy to try first. 

 

Anyway,  I put up the tools and all for today - after the conversion I will post in a moment - and will think about it overnight and perhaps for a day or two. 

This morning I did pretty much exactly that.  The photo below shows 1/16th inch plastic spacers inserted  to push/compress the springs.  This uses up about 33% of the available travel room.  With this modification the green sedan from the video above ran better - it not longer stalls completely and only stutters a tiny bit.   I inserted another thinner plastic, 1/32 to make a total of 3/32 and it made no further improvement.  Another 1/32 and the central rollers did not have enough travel (resulting in pushing the wheels up off their rails at times). 

    

Roller Modification

Second approach: I removed/replaced the anemic stock spring with a 1/4 inch section of the spring from a ballpoint pin (had to build a tiny plastic retainer disc but I did).  The thing ran flawlessly until it came to a curve, whereupon the front wheels ran off the rails: with the heavier spring, the wheels no longer had enough weight on them to force them down in turns. Maybe  I could fiddle with just the right length of ball-point-pen spring to use, maybe only 3/16 inch, etc.,  and get that approach to work - and I may still insert such springs in the Desoto (which, with its monster 13 oz weigh, I think will probably keep its wheels firmly planted regardless). 

 

I looked at changing on the center rollers for any of the three types used on past 'Streets vehicles, but the heavy and thick, metal (i.e., not an electric insulator) chassis makes this, in my view, unfeasible.  

 

At this point if I really wanted to get the green sedan to work well, I would just scratch-build a new chassis and use only the wheels from the origina, installing really good Lionel center rollersl: it would be easier overall.  

 

I have two more sedans ordered that should arrive Monday.  I will test them but I expect the same.  Like the green sedan just now, I will take them apart to harvest their wheel-axle sets - the wheels are an ideal size for 1950s/1960s "big car" tires - a scale 27 inches diameter: among everything I can find, only the old Lionel Vintage truck as car-size wheels, and they are getting very hard to find.  Besides, these look better. 

 

I can't recommend this sedan to anyone based on the two I have.  If you want a good 'Streets vehic, buy the WBB van - they have improved the K-Line/Lionel design (ironically, with really nice center rollers compared to the Lionel ones).  As shown in the video of a new one I took out of the box above, they run really well. 

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I promised several people I would post when I received my two other WBB sedans.  They arrived today.  Both run "flawlessly" right out of the box: they stutter and stumble at low speeds (25-30 scale mph) but then a lot of other brands of 'Streets vehicles do, too.  These are worst than most but okay - they run smoothly with higher voltages and speeds - at 85 on a CW-80's scale they run about 70 mph smoothly on my country highway and look quite good.  Interestingly, both run at just exactly the same speed, and at just the same speed at that setting as several of my tractor trailers and buses.  I had both sedans and a converted Corgi us and two big rigs running all at once on my country road, spaced about 15 -20 feet apart.  It was fun.  

 

Anyway, these two run well if low speed is not the issue: I will keep them stock and run them a lot on my country road.  The other stock sedan does not run well at all, and the converted DeSoto which I played with runs but not well unless I also run it at scale speeds around 70 mph.  

Last edited by Lee Willis

So far I have failed a making any good walking figures, but I have actually tried, Joe.  I made a dog with moving legs that walked around a building and "saluted" a fire hydrant as it came around each time, but it wasn't reliable enough or realistic enough in its look, either. I would most like to figure out a way to make a marching band that would "walk" down 'Streets track, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.    

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

So far I have failed a making any good walking figures, but I have actually tried, Joe.  I made a dog with moving legs that walked around a building and "saluted" a fire hydrant as it came around each time, but it wasn't reliable enough or realistic enough in its look, either. I would most like to figure out a way to make a marching band that would "walk" down 'Streets track, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.    

If anyone can do this I would say it would be you.

After seeing the milk truck conversion I was spying our Reuter version and was thinking hot dang another conversion...till the spring issue.

So, lacking a new one in my hand....yet...how does the new spring system work? Is that brass pin fixed and the new rollers  a fulcrum point where the spring pushes down on the backside of the arm or is the spring pushing on the arm?

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

The chassis is adjustable, something WBB promised at York a year+ ago and that was discussed on another thread about these new sedans.  You loosed two screws and can lengthed or shorten the chassis in increments controlled by teeth that engage (see below). 
Slide4

Bashing this will be both easy in one way, and a challenge in another.  The challenge will be cutting this chassis - woe be onto you if you have to - its heavy metal and thick.  On the other hand, you often won't have to do any cutting: it can adjust nicely by almost an inch in length (see note about this at the end). 


Would you say the components of this drive train could be repurposed as a low-profile power truck for say, a streetcar/interurban?

---PCJ
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
 
I think the problem is that the spring tension in the central rollers is much too weak. 
 
Lee, I received both sedans and the police car today and all three run flawlessly.
In fact, all run at nearly the identical speed which makes for easy running of the cars.
The power roller springs are lightly tensioned on all my new cars.
That may not be your problem.
I had similar stuttering streets vehicles of the older vintages (box vans and minivans) and always found the problem to be either something impeding the free rolling of the front wheels or an intermittent electrical issue from a slightly loose or pinched wire. Sometimes the wires connected to the rectifier seem to find their way to touch something they shouldn't or get slightly pinched when installing the body on the chassis.
I know you're an old hand at these vehicles but with all the springs on the new power rollers being similarly installed on your new vehicles would make me look to a bad connection somewhere.
I run my cars on a dedicated 15VDC transformer set to put out exactly 12V.
The cars run at what I estimate to be about 35-40 MPH (in O gauge world).
I recently cleaned the track and was surprised at how much black gunk can accumulate on the streets rails. It sure helped the cars run smoothly.
Let us know if you resolve the poorly running sedan issue.
Mark
Burlington route, I was thinking something like that.  Thanks for the interesting.
 
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Originally Posted by banjoflyer:
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
 
I think the problem is that the spring tension in the central rollers is much too weak. 
 
Lee, I received both sedans and the police car today and all three run flawlessly.
In fact, all run at nearly the identical speed which makes for easy running of the cars.
The power roller springs are lightly tensioned on all my new cars.
That may not be your problem.
I had similar stuttering streets vehicles of the older vintages (box vans and minivans) and always found the problem to be either something impeding the free rolling of the front wheels or an intermittent electrical issue from a slightly loose or pinched wire. Sometimes the wires connected to the rectifier seem to find their way to touch something they shouldn't or get slightly pinched when installing the body on the chassis.
I know you're an old hand at these vehicles but with all the springs on the new power rollers being similarly installed on your new vehicles would make me look to a bad connection somewhere.
I run my cars on a dedicated 15VDC transformer set to put out exactly 12V.
The cars run at what I estimate to be about 35-40 MPH (in O gauge world).
I recently cleaned the track and was surprised at how much black gunk can accumulate on the streets rails. It sure helped the cars run smoothly.
Let us know if you resolve the poorly running sedan issue.
Mark

Thanks for your posts and the information and advice. I truly appreciate your taking the time and I very much like the fact that there are others interested in 'Streets.  Please keep me updated if you have any problems or other ideas.  

 

But in spite of your suggestions I am certain my problems here are entirely with the center rollers.  Three things lead me to be certain of that:

  1. My green sedan won't run more than about five or six feet before stalling completely: every time it does, when I pick it up both center rollers are stuck (binding) in an up position - I can jiggle them a tiny bit with pin and then their springs will pop them down again and the thing will run for a few feet then the bind again.  Whether the springs are too weak or the telescoping posts bind for some reason I don't know.  Neolube (it is a lubricant and it conducts) seems to help a bit in easing the binding but only a bit.  
  2. The center pickups in the chassis I converted to the Desoto doesn't bind, but the pressure from the rollers is so weak - much weaker to the touch than any other vehicle I have ever had.  It does not stall but stutters.  As you say, that could be something else, except . . . 
  3. 3) I did the following experiment with both: I rigged a 13 foot length of fine (about 28 ga.) insulated copper wire into the center-pickup feed wire ahead of the rectifier, put an alligator clip on the other end, and firmly attached it to the feed terminal for the center rail on my mainstreet power supply.  With this tether attached l,  I can't run them farther than the 24 feet that are within 12-13 feet of my power supply but on that section they both run flawlessly, even at low speeds like a scale 35 mph (about just 10V).

 

Your cars are probably running faster scale speeds than you think - it is hard to judge .  My two stock sedans run smoothly only at 12V  and above.  At 12V measured with a voltmeter each will travel over a 24.0 measured length of 'Streets in 17.4 seconds --> 45 scale mph.  You noted your sedans go exactly the same speed,  So did both of mine.  And the green sedan - with the tether - does likewise. (the Desoto, which weighs nearly twice as much with its diecast metal Brookline body, takes 19 seconds to make the same drive).   The fact that all three stock sedans match speeds precisely suggests to me that all three drivetrains are near-perfect, with no binding on other problems. Yours probably go the same speed as mine - 45 mph at 12V.  

 

This morning, after about four hours of running both of my new sedans started stuttering.  I don't know if the center pickups are dirty (they look it) or the springs have weakened (I hope now) but I set them aside and ran some of my older converted sedans and convertibles with diecast bodies: its a nice special day and  I just don't want to get into fussing with them for now.  

 

Again, thanks, and keep in touch on how your 'streets stuff is doing.

 

 

 

Last edited by Lee Willis

Does it make much difference if you use the 16 inch or 21 inch curves as far as performance of the cars?  I see the dogbone kits come with 16 inch curves. Can it be made with 21 inch?

 

Can you insulate outside and center rail blocks? I was thinking of making a block system where a number of cars run on it and do not collide.

 

Is there a link somewhere of a track planning page? I am trying plan a configuration. 

 

Dale H

Dale H: Yes, you could insulate the two outside rails - you might have to cut a connector strap underneath but that would be no problem.  

 

Some of the various 'Streets vehicles slow noticeably on D-16 curves as compared to D-21, but every stock 'Streets vehicle I know of, K-Line, K-Line by Lionel, and WBB, will run through D16 without de-railing or stalling.  Longer wheelbase vehicles fight the curve and slow a bit more than shorter wheelbase vehicles.  I try to avoid D16 though because of this slowing.  Be sure to use the curve-transition straight sections (the 2.5 inch long sections that go from the narrow to the wide flange groves for curves) when going into curves from straights though, or you will get de-railing.  

 

I thought about blocks and various schemes but didn't.  I have insulated sections and run feed wires to I could, but I have not installed all the electronics or relaying necessary to block, etc.  Two reasons:

Call it laziness - I'm happy with occasionally having to pick up a car and set it down again when two get nose to tail.  Doesn't happen that often.  

Two - don't count of solid, poisitive block detection.  These things are not like a train, with many wheels that will pass over even an isolating block.  They have tiny wheels, usually with only one traction tire (a few I've bought in the past had two, or none, but most have one metal and one traction tire at the rear): not a lot of contact area.  And they don't weigh much.   Point being I was never sure that I would get sufficient connectivity across center rail to center rail to reliably and quickly detect and operate a blocking relay/control circuit. An experiment I did that put me off trying was this: I ran several types of k-Line by Lionel vehciles on my mainline track, which has remote Fastrack switches with the auto-derailing feature.  About one time in ten or twenty they would de-rail anyway because they would not trip the switch in time (or at all).  By far the worst offender was the vintage truck - nearly half the time.  

 

Anyway, if anyone can make it work it would be you with all and i will be very interested to see and hear how it goes.

Last edited by Lee Willis

Thanks Lee

 

My plan is a dog bone. About 20 feet of straight,2 right angles,then a turn around at each end. I have to figure out what curves to buy. Would like to use 21 inch curves when possible.  Other problem is my bench work turns in 3, 30 degree steps while the sections are 45%.

 

I have some fairly sensitive relays bit the light wheel contacts is a problem. I may go to a latch type circuit,I would have to think about it. I can experiment when I get the track.If I did not already have the train track laid,I would have it cross the train track. I have already done this successfully with a trolley,no collisions when tested. here is the circuit used

 

www.jcstudiosinc.com/TrolleyStopsForTrain

 

For the cars I would like Bachmann to offer the chassis only so I could motorize my diecast cars. 

 

Any one ever try to take regular track and make inserts to make it look like road? I have shadow rail for track..

Dale - I actually thought about using a laser or infrared beam above the track as a detector rather than do the insulated outer rail method of detecting a vehicle on the track section.  Set nearly parallel down a section so that a vehicle blocked it for say, all of five feet of travel, etc., it should work well.

 

 

Another thing to think about in favor os something like that is that on a section with an isolated outer rail only one outer rail feeds power through the vehicles' wheels.  If the traction tire is on that powered rail side you have only one wheel really trying to pickup power.  Not that good for smooth running, particularly atl low voltages.  While I have never built isolated sections/blocking in "Streets, I did try it on my "BEEPworld" (a 55 foot train loop) in order to control things so I could run two trains conventionally at one time.  The system does function, but since I run almost exclusively the Lionel 0-4-0 shifter or BEEPs on it, I have this same problem:, and even though with trains you have the axles of the rolling stock that carr power from one rail to the other - sort of tranhsipping it then off to the loco's wheels on the other side, my shifters and beeps ran noticeably less smoothly with the system operating with that outer rail isolated.  I went back to just running both rails powered and only one train at a time.  Sometime I might do the light-beam detector there since its all wired and replayed for it. 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
 

Thanks for your posts and the information and advice. I truly appreciate your taking the time and I very much like the fact that there are others interested in 'Streets.  Please keep me updated if you have any problems or other ideas.  

 

Lee, thanks for the response. As usual you are taking the problem solving one step at a time and eliminating possible causes one at a time.

I was looking at the pics from your original post and saw this one:

Forward spring

Is there any chance that the brass top of the roller assembly is catching on the wire terminal shown in the photo? If so, even if it rubs on the terminal end that might prevent it from fully pushing down on the roller to it's full extant. 

Just a thought.

Mark

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

Dale - I actually thought about using a laser or infrared beam above the track as a detector rather than do the insulated outer rail method of detecting a vehicle on the track section.  Set nearly parallel down a section so that a vehicle blocked it for say, all of five feet of travel, etc., it should work well.

 

 

Another thing to think about in favor os something like that is that on a section with an isolated outer rail only one outer rail feeds power through the vehicles' wheels.  If the traction tire is on that powered rail side you have only one wheel really trying to pickup power.  Not that good for smooth running, particularly atl low voltages.  While I have never built isolated sections/blocking in "Streets, I did try it on my "BEEPworld" (a 55 foot train loop) in order to control things so I could run two trains conventionally at one time.  The system does function, but since I run almost exclusively the Lionel 0-4-0 shifter or BEEPs on it, I have this same problem:, and even though with trains you have the axles of the rolling stock that carr power from one rail to the other - sort of tranhsipping it then off to the loco's wheels on the other side, my shifters and beeps ran noticeably less smoothly with the system operating with that outer rail isolated.  I went back to just running both rails powered and only one train at a time.  Sometime I might do the light-beam detector there since its all wired and replayed for it. 

 

 

 

Lee

 

After the problems you cite,I may make a block system with reed switches and magnets,using twin coiled latch relays. This is often done in 2 rail and works pretty well. .

 

Dale H

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