Skip to main content

My wife and I just returned from the Rocky Mountain Toy Train Show in Denver.  I feel it is a mini version of York and it is a public show.  As usual it was great.  Right after getting there I bought a brand new Lionel Big Red Button for $10 which was a great start.  At 1:00 I attended Ed Dickens' presentation on the movement of UP Big Boy 4014 out of the park in Pamona, California.  He talked for a little over 1 hour and showed 175 pictures.  The small room, and hallway, was packed with 50-100 people.  I thought he did an excellent job describing all aspects of the engine preparation and move.  He praised his team at least 50 times.  He had two of his ream members there as well.  I knew it was a tough move but had no idea how much was involved.  Again it was a great presentation and I thank him and UP for doing it. 

 

After that we went to the Lionel booth and I asked, of course, about when the catalog was coming out and the price of the Big Boy.  The rep said that the catalog would come out during the last week of March.  His guess was that the Big Boy's MSRP would be $2499 and the street price would be around $2000.  It that's true then I can afford one.

 

We then went to the Stoddarts booth and I bought a Chama station sign and a Daylight logo sign.  Both are beautiful.  I hope to get one of the engines next time.  They told me it takes 6 hours to make each one and they keep improving them.  Again they are beautiful.

 

While I was listening to Ed Dickens my wife bought a B&O china plate for $8, what a deal!

 

I attend many different train shows in Colorado and this is by far the best!

Last edited by John Meixel
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Thanks!  After I bought the Chama and Daylight signs my wife and I walked around some more before leaving.  We were in the "Friends of the Cumbres and Scenic Railroad" booth, (we are members), and they were drooling all over the Chama sign.  They didn't realize that just 50' away they could buy their own.  Of course I showed them where the booth was.

I'd like to hear Ed Dickens talk about the Big Boy and the U.P.'s plans for her.  I wonder if there might be a chance that he'd be invited to York for some comments.

 

In my case, I won't be jumping into the purchase of one of Lionel's Legacy Big Boys; One of the requirements for everything on my layout is that everything on it says: "Milwaukee Road" and to the best of my knowledge the "road" didn't have any of those.  I will be anxiously looking for a Milwaukee engine in the next Lionel catalog and, hopefully, it will find a home on my layout.

 

Good report on the Colorado train show, John.

 

Paul Fischer

Susan, He did talk about both the 3985 and 844 when comparing them to the 4014 as far as the size of similar components and clearances.  He didn't say anything about their future operation.  But he also didn't say that they weren't an active part of the heritage fleet.  He left the impression that all three would be operational.

The hot looking weather person on CBS misled us. The 40's turned into the teens with light snow. Apparently the train folks in Colorado aren't afraid of the cold or snow because we set a new attendance record with 10800 attending.
I sat in the front row of Eds presentation which was cool but made it impossible to video record. He added more detail to all of the past UP Utube videos. He did an excellent job and was pretty impressive. I spoke with several steam team folks after the presentation. Turns out 3985 needs more than simple FRA work and needs some serious boiler repairs done. It won't be repaired until after 4014 is complete. 4014 seems to have had much work and service done to it just prior to its long visit at the museum and very few miles since it was serviced.
Thanks to all those that showed up.
Susan D.
I can't believe you missed it!
Originally Posted by Tranz4mr:
 I spoke with several steam team folks after the presentation. Turns out 3985 needs more than simple FRA work and needs some serious boiler repairs done.

 

That is the mis-information that the current steam crew has been putting out ever since January of 2011! I know personally the two Boilermakers from the previous Steam Crew that were working on 3985, back in 2010 & early 2011, and the current "party line" is simply NOT TRUE!  Very sad.

Originally Posted by cbojanower:

Did they say when they expect it to start heading east?

According to a lengthy narrative posted on Train Orders, "Sometime in April". The main reason for the delay, is the severe winter weather, but not quite what one would think. The UP Steam Crew is also responsible for operation/maintenance of the BIG rotary snow plow headquartered at the Cheyenne Steam Shop/Roundhouse (yes, it is kept indoors). Thus, if either the UP or the BNSF requires emergency assistance which requires the rotary, out on the plains, and the Steam Crew is out hauling a dead steam locomotive, there surely would be heck to pay! When the "winter scare" is finally over, then 4014 can be towed to Cheyenne.

As Hotwater posted above the past steam team accuses the new one of spreading misinformationn while the new guys claim another story. The old guys sue the new guy so the new guy can't say very much for legal reasons. Bottom line is the new guys are in charge moving forward and seem to be dedicated to restoring the 4014. The 3985 doesn't appear to be headed anywhere. The public will get to see a large articulated steam engine run in the future while the 844 carries the weight in the meantime. Ed Dickens seems like a very driven goal oriented guy with a dedicated young team. I wish whatever team is in charge the best of luck.

I don't know anything about the "A" team vs the "B" Team, but why wouldn't the top management of the UP get both parties together, do a "Steam Locomotive Build Off". I guess that we could probably get congress to work together before this could be accomplished. Norfolk Southern, is in the process of getting the J 611 going again, and I hope this will spur on the CSX to develop a steam crew, and put the 614 back into service again. It's not like these big railroad company's don't have the profits to accomplish this. I guess that CSX is happy showing commercials with 2 wide body's pulling a bunch of double stacker's. The money they claim to save with these new diesels, they could over haul the "614" and probably Gold Leaf the thing. One guy said on another forum, said that yes they could, but they don't have to, and don't need "PR", by overhauling some ****ed old steam engine for the public to drool over. I wonder who he was, the CSX CEO, or just one of the door holding flunkies for the CEO's and his Cabinet?  

Originally Posted by Brandy:

Norfolk Southern, is in the process of getting the J 611 going again,

The Virginia Museum of Transport is in the process of getting the 611 going again, not Norfolk Southern.  NS is just supporting the project.

 

And ultimately, CSX is responsible to its shareholders, not railfans.  To paraphrase what  so many on the OGR board are so fond of saying: "It's CSX's railroad..."

 

Rusty

Last edited by Rusty Traque

Rusty, I didn't mean to discredit the Virginia Trans Museum by any shape or form, but where do you think this project would be without a major corporate investment from NS? Well I tell you, know where at all. If it wasn't for steam engine people Southern Railway would have never ever got back into the steam program that it had. Southern was one of the 1st railroads in America dieselize. If memory serves me correctly, it was in 1952, and you should have seen how many folks lost jobs thru that transition. This opened the door for all of the rest of the railroads to follow suit, and that they did. I for one am extremely happy that UP. NS, BNSF, and NS are keeping their steam programs going, and resurrecting the programs that they once had. CSX at one time had an interest, but that appears to be long gone. Top heavy with Bean Counters, I'll bet!.

Originally Posted by Brandy:

Rusty, I didn't mean to discredit the Virginia Trans Museum by any shape or form, but where do you think this project would be without a major corporate investment from NS? Well I tell you, know where at all. If it wasn't for steam engine people Southern Railway would have never ever got back into the steam program that it had. Southern was one of the 1st railroads in America dieselize. If memory serves me correctly, it was in 1952, and you should have seen how many folks lost jobs thru that transition. This opened the door for all of the rest of the railroads to follow suit, and that they did. I for one am extremely happy that UP. NS, BNSF, and NS are keeping their steam programs going, and resurrecting the programs that they once had. CSX at one time had an interest, but that appears to be long gone. Top heavy with Bean Counters, I'll bet!.


As I recall, VMT began fundraising months BEFORE NS threw some bucks at the project.  Granted, if NS had said "no way will it run on our rails again" at the beginning, the 611 project would be DOA.  No NS facilities are being used for the restoration.  NS is performing a supporting role.  If VMT doesn't reach its finacial goals, the project stops.

 

As I said before, it's CSX's railroad, they can do what they want and all the whining in the world from railfans and model railroaders isn't going to change their mind.

 

Any steam program can disappear with a managment change, take a look at CP.  The CB&Q's program in the 60's disappeared with a change in managment, much to the wailing of the railfan community back then.  It happens. 

 

Get a bunch of hyper-bean counter in charge and even the UP's program could go *poof.*  Unlikely, but it's always a possibility.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Brandy:

 I for one am extremely happy that UP. NS, BNSF, and NS are keeping their steam programs going, 

To be clear, ONLY the UP has an actual "Steam Program", with many full time employees assigned excessively to the "Heritage Fleet", i.e. now three steam engines, five diesels, and a fully functional rotary snow plow for emergency winter weather.

 

Both NS and BNSF ALLOW steam locomotive operations on their lines, and when they need a steam operation for themselves, they contract to other groups, like the TVRM, and Ft Wayne RR Historical Society (NS), and Friends of SP4449, or San Bernadino RR Historical Society, or Friends of MIL 261 (BNSF).  

Originally Posted by Rusty Traque:


As I recall, VMT began fundraising months BEFORE NS threw some bucks at the project.  Granted, if NS had said "no way will it run on our rails again" at the beginning, the 611 project would be DOA.  No NS facilities are being used for the restoration.  NS is performing a supporting role.  If VMT doesn't reach its finacial goals, the project stops.

 

As I said before, it's CSX's railroad, they can do what they want and all the whining in the world from railfans and model railroaders isn't going to change their mind.

 

Any steam program can disappear with a managment change, take a look at CP.  The CB&Q's program in the 60's disappeared with a change in managment, much to the wailing of the railfan community back then.  It happens. 

 

Get a bunch of hyper-bean counter in charge and even the UP's program could go *poof.*  Unlikely, but it's always a possibility.

 

Rusty

I think the key difference is that it was announced that key members of the "original" 611 steam crew from the 90's has been asked to be involved in the project again.

 

I think this is critical, 4 guys who "know", are far more valuable than 10 or how many ever who "think " they know.

 

If 4014 runs again, I'll be impressed. If one day it runs past my house like 3985 did, I'll eat crow.

Last edited by RickO
Originally Posted by Tranz4mr:

I've read most of that online with the he said she said, Old guys versus new guys, Union versus management. There are usually 2 sides to every story and until its settled we won't hear both. Either way what's done is done, 3985 sits and 4014 moves to Cheyenne in April or so.

I think theres a big difference between an "old guy" thats been there telling it how it is/was, and the new guy "selling" how he thinks it will be.

 

 

Last edited by RickO
Originally Posted by RickO:

I think the key difference is that it was announced that key members of the "original" 611 steam crew from the 90's has been asked to be involved in the project again.

 

I think this is critical, 4 guys who "know", are far more valuable than 10 or how many ever who "think " they know.

 

Glad I'm not the only person who picked up on this VERY IMPORTANT difference between the "Fire-up the 611" group vs. the current Union Pacific steam department. The VMT involves highly experienced, and well respected previous members of the Norfolk Southern Steam Department, while the UP eliminates EVERY SINGLE ONE of the experienced Steam Crew, especially those experienced with large UP articulated locomotives!

 

Wonder why?

I will admit that I have very little practical knowledge about the care and maintenance of full-size steam locomotives.  However, I was very impressed with Ed Dickens' extremely detailed description, with great photographs, of every aspect of the work they did preparing the 4014 for its move out of the museum and the actual move across the parking lot and to Colton.

Hot Water knows steam and UP.  I would hope he would agree that UP is and was the PT Barnum of its day and  is attempting the same too day. PROMOTION, PROMOTION, PROMOTION. So to hear from the old guys one story that doesn't jib  with current corporate desires ; the 150th anniversary, PROMOTION, PROMOTION, PROMOTION, and the reality  of the issue  some one or thing has to give. after all Ur fer me or agin  me! Hot Water your day will come the current lack of expertise will rear its ugly head and bite UP in the arse if there not careful I suspect some corporate backpedaling after first really expensive flub. BY the way  Sir I don't think your that old Where did you acquire all the skills and knowledge too so effectively operate steam locos ? P.S. Hot Water I mean no offense to you just interested in where you gained all your knowledge. Corporate bullpucky has allways been horsefeathers in my book tends too delay necessary action far too long to be beneficial in any way POWER corrupts,

Originally Posted by aterry11:

BY the way  Sir I don't think your that old Where did you acquire all the skills and knowledge too so effectively operate steam locos ? P.S. Hot Water I mean no offense to you just interested in where you gained all your knowledge. 

As to my age, I'm 72. I started learning about steam with hands on experience, at South Amboy, NJ on the PRR K4s locomotives assigned there for the New York & Lang Branch. That was about 1956/1957. 

 

My desire to learn about steam locomotives, and work on them grew, but I new I would not be able to support myself, nor any future family in that field. So I went to College for a Diesel Technology degree, and was promptly hired by EMD on June 1, 1962. I'have been "at it" ever since!

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×