Rocky Mountaineer orders new passenger cars

I just looked at the image again & the elevator concept in the 3^rd image looks interesting. There is no enclosure around the upper portion of the elevator in the dome. I also wonder why Rocky Mountaineer chose Stadler, instead of the Canadian rolling stock manufacturer, Bombardier who own all legacy designs from Pullman or Budd, or any of the upcoming rolling stock manufacturers from China.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

You had me worried there, Naveen.  I was thinking... now what did I do???   

No need to worry about these cars though, since they definitely won't fit on my new layout!!! 

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

You had me worried there, Naveen.  I was thinking... now what did I do???   

No need to worry about these cars though, since they definitely won't fit on my new layout!!! 

David

David,

When you said that these cars wouldn’t fit on your layout, were you referring to the length or the height of the O-Scale models? The length could be 85’ as the California Zephyr that Atlas-O is making. I speculate that Stadler would make them the same length & height as the existing cars.

 Didn’t you wish on these forums many months ago that Golden Gate Depot or maybe Lionel made the existing Rock Mountaineer cars? The current Rocky Mountaineer double-deck dome lounge cars made by Colorado Railcar are the tallest passenger cars in service at 18 ft high. That makes them taller than the Hi-Level (15’6”) that Budd built for Santa Fe or the Amtrak Superliner, Surfliner or California coach (16’2”).

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Naveen, no I was joking that the REAL cars wouldn't fit on my layout!!!  Just a little humor.  

It would sure be super if one of the importers produced an O-Scale Rocky Mountaineer train in its new paint scheme.    There's no way I'd turn that down.

David

I wonder if they would meet FRA safety standards to run in the USA?

Whew, I thought this was another thread where david buys the most expensive thing he can find and then complains about how much it cost

I hope the handrails, sinks, and silverware are all real stainless. It would be disappointing if they weren't. The cabinets should be real maple or oak while we're at it.

And it better be at an acceptable price point! Dirt cheap to free would be perfect. 

I wonder if they would meet FRA safety standards to run in the USA?

They will have to.  Rocky Mountaineer does run several times per month between Vancouver BC and Seattle to link to the Seattle cruise ship traffic. These cars appear very similar to the existing Colorado Railcar designs, which operate on the Alaska RR so they must be FRA compliant. 

I thought David's order was in and he bought all new 21"cars from Lionel!

Canada really had up the comfort on their transcontinental passenger cars...

I am convinced Amtrak will single handily kill the passenger train business with the bare minimum approach.

Hopefully someone in the private sector will pick this opportunity up before passenger train travel dies due to lack of services and updated equipment.

Or not.  Unless Transport Canada rules are the same as FRA concerning passenger cars, they could stay in the Great White North!

Now, this also could be a teaser for the Swiss company to expose its produces, so US and Canada can take a look at.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or not.  Unless Transport Canada rules are the same as FRA concerning passenger cars, they could stay in the Great White North!

They are.

Now, this also could be a teaser for the Swiss company to expose its produces, so US and Canada can take a look at.

Why?  There haven't been any passenger car manufacturing companies in the U.S. for some 30 or 40 years. They are now all foreign companies that simply "assemble" the stuff here in the U.S..

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or not.  Unless Transport Canada rules are the same as FRA concerning passenger cars, they could stay in the Great White North!

They are.

Now, this also could be a teaser for the Swiss company to expose its produces, so US and Canada can take a look at.

Why?  There haven't been any passenger car manufacturing companies in the U.S. for some 30 or 40 years. They are now all foreign companies that simply "assemble" the stuff here in the U.S..

 

I thought Bombardier was the last sole survivor for building and assembling U.S. rail cars in Plattsburgh New York? I believe the are assembling the next generation Amtrak rail car?

I was not aware that Bombardier was/is a U.S. company.

Hot Water posted:

I was not aware that Bombardier was/is a U.S. company.

They aren't.  My son works for them.

Renderings look nice.

You don't have to be US owned to be US made.  Of course in California you must state only Assembled in US from Foreign and Domestic Parts.

In Texas we have the Go Texan label for Texas made products, of course I don't know what the rules/laws are regarding it's usage.  This seems to be for ag products only though.

ecd15 posted:

Hot Water posted:

I was not aware that Bombardier was/is a U.S. company.

They aren't.  My son works for them.

Interesting... its not what they are touting on their company web site.. thus the above logo...

They own allot of the original rights and patents of the Pullman car company.

I rode the Rocky Mountaineer several years ago.  These cars appear to be the same basic design as the cars that I rode.  The ride is more about the fabulous dinning than it is about the scenery.

NH Joe

The reason that there are no longer and American companies manufacturing passenger cars is; ALL public carrying passenger operations in the U.S. (Amtrak & commuter/regional) are U.S. Government funded (UMTA) and thus are so completely burdened with legal liability requirements, all previous passenger car manufacturers simply stopped dealing with the Government funded projects including the Consulting Engineering firms. Having felt with the very first EMD order of SDP40F units for Amtrak, the "boiler plate" portion for the Amtrak specification was TWICE AS THICK as the technical locomotive specs. Prior to even bidding on the Amtrak Request for Quotation, the front 2/3rds of the "book" had to be reviewed by the GM Legal Dept. in Detroit, and they took more exceptions then the EMD Engineering Dept. did for the technical specs!

Ah......More passenger cars to foam, and eventually ride.   Huzzah !

From the renderings it seems like these 10 upcoming Rocky Mountaineer Goldleaf Ultra-Dome coaches have the vestibule connecting the passenger cars on the lower level, unlike the slightly shorter Santa Fe Hi-Level or the Amtrak Superliner, Surfliner or California coaches that had the vestibule on the upper level. Members on this forum who have ridden on the current Goldleaf Ultra-Dome coaches, how easy is it to get on the cars since it appears that the lower level is above the trucks? The only time I rode on Amtrak train, it was winter & the elderly passengers had trouble getting on the single-deck Horizon coaches & the conductor had to spend some time knocking the ice & snow that built on the exposed steps.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

J Daddy posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or not.  Unless Transport Canada rules are the same as FRA concerning passenger cars, they could stay in the Great White North!

They are.

Now, this also could be a teaser for the Swiss company to expose its produces, so US and Canada can take a look at.

Why?  There haven't been any passenger car manufacturing companies in the U.S. for some 30 or 40 years. They are now all foreign companies that simply "assemble" the stuff here in the U.S..

 

I thought Bombardier was the last sole survivor for building and assembling U.S. rail cars in Plattsburgh New York? I believe the are assembling the next generation Amtrak rail car?

 

J Daddy,

Would you know which upcoming passenger cars Bombardier is building for Amtrak. I follow the train-related news on Railway Gazette & Progressive Railroading & to the extent I still remember what I read, the Rochelle, IL facility of the Japanese train manufacturer, Nippon Sharyo is building the next generation, non-long-distance double-deck passenger cars for trains running in CA, IL, MI, MO & WA. These would be similar to the current Amtrak Surfliner or the Amtrak California car.

The Elmira, NY facility of the Spanish train manufacturer, CAF, is building the next generation Viewliner cars for Amtrak.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

In 1970 Bombardier acquired the Austrian company Lohner-Rotax, a manufacturer of snowmobile engines and tramways, and became involved with rail business.

This section started to gain importance in the mid-1990s in the renaissance of tramways or "light-rail transit." Bombardier acquired the assets and designs of Budd Company, Pullman Company, and American Locomotive Company/Montreal Locomotive Works, the latter of which continued in the locomotive business until 1985. In the Canadian market, they also acquired Hawker Siddeley Canada’s Thunder Bay facilities and UTDC (formerly of Kingston), and in Mexico the company acquired Concarril.

In 2001 Bombardier acquired Adtranz (DaimlerChrysler Rail Systems), a manufacturer of trains which were widely used throughout Germany and Great Britain. Bombardier was one of the companies that took over British Rail's Research and Development facilities after privatisation (the remainder largely being absorbed into AEA Technology and Alstom).

With the acquisition of Adtranz from DaimlerChrysler, Bombardier Transportation emerged as one of the largest manufacturers of railway rolling stock in the world.

I guess we still own this one, (Bombardier)  but I also wonder why they are not making the new cars?    Perhaps  not enough   quantities . Anyway they made good snow machines.

TexasSP posted:

You don't have to be US owned to be US made.

JDaddy posted:

I thought Bombardier was the last sole survivor for building and assembling U.S. rail cars in Plattsburgh New York? I believe the are assembling the next generation Amtrak rail car?

Well, these things are true. However, the original statement was "Now, this also could be a teaser for the Swiss company to expose its produces, so US and Canada can take a look at." I took that to mean that a Canadian or U.S. manufacturer could take a look at the designs for possible implementation of ideas. As far as a U.S. company looking at it, as Hot Water correctly pointed, there aren't any making rail passenger cars, so it's a moot point.

The fact that Bombardier does some assembly in the U.S. doesn't mean anything. Their headquarters are in Canada, their management, planners and designers are in Canada and any decisions as to what will be made are made in Canada, not in the U.S.

As another example, Nissan and Volkswagen (soon to be joined by Kia, Mercedes, BMW, and Audi, among others) build some cars in plants in Mexico. However, the Mexican manufacturing facilities don't have anything to do with designing the cars that Nissan or Volkswagen are going build. They just build the cars that Nissan and Volkswagen tell them to build.

Gregg posted:

 

With the acquisition of Adtranz from DaimlerChrysler, Bombardier Transportation emerged as one of the largest manufacturers of railway rolling stock in the world.

.......I also wonder why they are not making the new cars?    Perhaps  not enough   quantities . Anyway they made good snow machines.

They've been very busy building their successful line of Global and Challenger Bizjets (among others) and designing new ones, and have also been extensively tied up, in terms of both their time and money (billions, to the point of needing a loan from the Canadian government), with getting their new C Series airliners off the ground. (OK, pun intended)

The "tease" was for Amtrak, VIA, Iowa Pacific and others to take a look.  Of course Amtrak, if it was buying, needs US content/build requirements.  (But do those rules apply to leasing?)  I do not know about VIA's buying rules.  Now somebody like Iowa Pacific only has to worry about the bottom line......

naveenrajan posted:

J Daddy posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or not.  Unless Transport Canada rules are the same as FRA concerning passenger cars, they could stay in the Great White North!

They are.

Now, this also could be a teaser for the Swiss company to expose its produces, so US and Canada can take a look at.

Why?  There haven't been any passenger car manufacturing companies in the U.S. for some 30 or 40 years. They are now all foreign companies that simply "assemble" the stuff here in the U.S..

 

I thought Bombardier was the last sole survivor for building and assembling U.S. rail cars in Plattsburgh New York? I believe the are assembling the next generation Amtrak rail car?

 

J Daddy,

Would you know which upcoming passenger cars Bombardier is building for Amtrak. I follow the train-related news on Railway Gazette & Progressive Railroading & to the extent I still remember what I read, the Rochelle, IL facility of the Japanese train manufacturer, Nippon Sharyo is building the next generation, non-long-distance double-deck passenger cars for trains running in CA, IL, MI, MO & WA. These would be similar to the current Amtrak Surfliner or the Amtrak California car.

The Elmira, NY facility of the Spanish train manufacturer, CAF, is building the next generation Viewliner cars for Amtrak.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Thanks Naveen. I found this link:

http://www.cafusa.com/en/produ...to-detalle.php?p=189

The full domes are nice - almost like riding in a convertible. A bit like a return to the Milwaukee Road Superdomes (bottom pictures).