Running Lionel Legacy Shay Problems on 031 - BRACKET INSTALLED AND NOW PULLING CARS ON 031! NEW Video posted

Well my Shay returned from repair and the smoke unit is working great. I tried to mount the last coupler bracket I thought might possible work it can't adapt it to fit without some major body work which I am not willing to do. I actually did get it to pull the log cars that were made for these without derailing a single time................I inadvertently put the shell back together without the rear steps. Works great, looks crappy though. LOL.

 

Am still actively looking to buy a bracket (see thread here https://ogrforum.com/d...nt/12129988030156179) or if necessary the entire K-Line Shay to get the bracket provided FREE from K-Line when originally issued them.

 

Also I received NO response at all to emails to Lionel management other then the information from Mike R.

If leaving the steps off allows everything to work, can you just modify the steps?  Sounds like you wouldn't have to modify the body.

K-line made some spring loaded steps for some engines to allow for tighter radius compatibility.  Check with Brasseur trains to see if they have any.  Maybe you could modify these to work on the Shay.

 

Joe

I will take some pics in a little bit, but yes, I think by cutting off the inside vertical supports and the middle step on both sides it would allow the coupler the room it needs to swing. I just am very hesitant without a set of spare steps to do so. It does look pretty strange with them off. I still am trying to come up with one of the K-Line brackets. If I can get one I will have it reproduced so that anyone else that needs them can get them at cost.

Here are some pics just taken with the steps on and off. Also include a close up of the mounting area.

 

 Mounting area

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the coupler is mounted upside-down.  

LOL you are right

 

No wonder it wont handle O31 curves!

I see that you can get the spare pilot beams from Lionel. (I've just looked at the available parts listing.) So you could modify the footboards to give some extra clearance if desired.

I see from your pictures that the spring loaded steps that K-line made will not work for this situation.

 

Joe

When taking the pics with it on and off I was trying to show the overall look, and didn't pay attention to the coupler as I had to reconnect the wires before putting it back to work.

 

I am still hopeful of finding a K-Line adapter. You'd think someone would give up one for $50.00. If I can get one I will have it made up and I know Alan Miller for one could use one, so I'd get whatever how many the folks on the Forum need stamped out.

LMAO! She runs real nice on them 031 curves, just don't give her anything to pull lol!

From the pictures, even with the coupler right side up, it seems you could just cut away a bit of the steps to allow greater swing to the coupler.  As Nicole says, you can order a set of steps to experiment with, so if you don't like the result, put the unmodified ones back on.

That's plan B if unable to acquire one.

Paul,

 

I have the K-Line Shay.  Let me take a look later tonight and see if that part is in the box.

Way to go Mich!

Paul I hope you can get the K-Line part.  It would be a darn shame to have to cut anything on a brand new loco.  Good luck and thanks for keeping us posted.

Paul, If this is what your looking for I will send it to you.  All I ask is that you return it to me after you have one made for yourself.  My email is in my profile.

 

 

hello guys and gals.........

 

can it run on 0-36 pulling the log cars without a problem ?

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011

Tiffany

I don't have 036, it does on 042 very nicely. Alan Miller posted earlier in this thread that his would not  pull the logging cars without derailing on 036.

 

Now for good news, I have some brackets being sent to me! As soon as I get them I will begin looking to have them reproduced. If you have the Lionel Legacy Shay and would need a bracket to run on 031 hit my email so I can get an idea of how many Forum members need. Thanks to everyone that has contributed so far to solving this Lionel created problem. Now let's get er done and start enjoying running these Legacy Shays on them tight 031 curves!

 

The forum and it's members come through again!

The reason I haven't gotten one of these is the fact that it won't run on the tighter curves.  If brackets are available, I may have to reconsider.

It is a sweet looking and running Shay, I love it and can't wait to have it pulling logs through my mountain loop.

I have one Lionel Legacy Shay.  If "O-31" coupler brackets become available, I would like to buy one.

/Ralph Platz  (rlplatz@cox.net)

Email me folks please if you are going to want one of these, I can't be going back and reading everyone's posts. I had emailed Lionel as to any problems on having these made, don't want to step on any copyright stuff. Got the go ahead along with a thank you for seeking a solution.

Thanks to a real decent local fellow who read this thread I am now in possession of 2 of the brackets. First examination is they show a brass look from where the paint is rubbed in spots. Could have been machined out of brass I guess, although I would have thought they'd be cast metal. They are really quite complicated in the way they are machined to fit over and around what is already in place on the rear. Been a busy day here, so I will get it one mounted on the Shay and report back tomorrow. Will post lot's of pics of the bracket then also.

 

The part would not be copyrightable anyways;  it is entirely functional and not expressive.

Paul,

 

I think it is terrific that once again this forum has enabled someone to get some much needed help on a problem.  Even better your willingness to try and others with the same problem.

 

I can also understand your frustration with Lionel.  I certainly understand that mistakes are made.  What is the tell all is how the company that makes the mistake, takes responsibility and fixes it.  I would think that minimum curve is an important  aspect and they would check it all very carefully.  Someone posted they didn't think they tested these things pulling cars.  While I don't know, I can't imagine that can be accurate.  How many people run an engine, especially this type, without cars.

 

Fortunately there are some great people on the forum helping out and I suspect you will be running fine in a short time.

 

Ed

Is production with one of the 3D printers be a possibility here?  Would the plastic/resin have enough strength?

 

  --Joe

 

 

 

Nope, not a COPYRIGHT issue at all, but it could cause problems with PATENT infringement issues, though Lionel has given permission, which would avoid that trouble, assuming that it is Lionel who has the authority to grant that permission.

 

 Copyright protection is generally for media related products, such as Print like books and magazines etc. sound(such as Music, would be a common one) and movie/video are other things that would typically be copyrighted.

 

 Patents more typically cover physical objects, or chemical compostions. This sure is not an all inclusive summary, but should help understand the basic differences between copyright protection and patent protection. now for the legal disclaimer, I am NOT a copyright, or Patent attorney, and these descriptions, and or definitions, are not to be used in a court of law.

 

Doug

Not sure since I know nothing about it, it's one of the things I need someone that does know a lot about it to talk to.

The part looks like it might be a "lost wax"/sacrificial casting (maybe sand mold), probably cast in brass?  That might be why the part was discontinued, the "master" may have been lost or the process to expensive to continue.  

 

A 3D scan/printer might be able to replicate the master but the cost of mass producing the part directly would probably be prohibitive.  The new "master" could be used to make a high temp silicone mold and then cast the pieces with pot metal. Not sure how many casting you can get from a mold but you can use the master to create a new mold when needed.

Chuck, where did you see a picture of this bracket?  I am curious how it looks and if it really solves the problem.

I will be posting some pictures and taking the brackets down to the workbench later today to attempt/mount one on the Shay. Dealing with a different type of major issue here, and I plan to get to the bracket today.

I have the same problem with a K-Line Shay that I bought a few years ago.   I tested it running by itself, and then spent a few years building the layout with O-36 track.  However, when I run it with cars, it pulls off.  A search of the web led to a reference to a "bracket" that is needed (or a new coupler?) when running the K-Line Shay on O-36 track.  I just opened up the box, and I cannot find it. 

Is anyone familiar with the problem?  Do you know where I can get the replacement part?

Thanks!

Read this thread, it will give you all the information available on  the bracket.

John, Charlie, aka MichRR714, posted some photo's.  You may have to do a refresh on the browser to get them to appear?

Thanks Chuck, I just didn't scroll far enough back.   It does look like a complicated part, not going to be easy to reproduce I would imagine.

Would a resin version made from a 3-D printer be both economical to produce and strong enough to do the same function as the metal one pictured above by MichRR714 aka Charlie?

"Would a resin version made from a 3-D printer be both economical to produce and strong enough to do the same function as the metal one pictured above by MichRR714 aka Charlie?"

The type of 3D printer that could do this using powdered resin is pretty expensive and the material used is also very expensive (if it needs some kind of structural integrity).  In some cases the part would cost as much as a new loco. (we have access to one of these and a $5 part for a piece of office equipment was going to cost closer to $500 to have the 3D lithography system replicate).