Scale Amfleet cars

MTH sells 2 rail trucks.

http://mthtrains.com/prod-sear...lassification%3A7036

I think these would work?

http://mthtrains.com/20-89007

looks like the locator says these guys have them:

You can also get just the wheels to fit your MTH trucks. You'd have to make your own power pick-ups for lighting then.

 NWSL offers them as well as others that should fit.

I'm not sure about the MTH cars being full length??

http://mthtrains.com/prod-sear...lassification%3A7038

One caveat: The MTH passenger cars (despite my many suggestions) are compressed to 70 feet. They have the correct number of windows, but they've been shortened. K-Line produced some 85-foot extruded aluminum Amtrak cars, but as I recall, they were not the commuter Amfleet cars. MTH doesn't have scale wheel sets for their Amfleet cars, so as Tom mentioned, you'd have to send them out.

I bet if you contact Haynes MacDaniel you could buy extrusions.  Don't know if he would punch windows.  I think maybe Clark Benson extruded some, but not sure.

Aren't those trucks inside bearing?  Might be easy to just drill an brassblock and insert wheelsets, like an engine truck for a steamer.

Or wait.  Somebody will do them - maybe Sunset.

I've been lobbying for those for quite a while.  But Amtrak only cars is a no go and with the really small numbers of reservations and sales for Amtrak cars I cannot argue.

I'm not a rivet counter but length is one thing I do pay attention to when it comes to cars.   Guess I will be writing Haynes or see what else comes down the pike.   They may be Amtrak only cars but there are hundreds of them and it won't be long before they start being sold into commuter service if they follow the path of cars before them.  I have an Overland diesel to put in front of a train, either Crescent or Regional or perhaps both. Put those on the track with a Powhatan Arrow and a Southern Crescent, Tennessean and an early Amtrak with mixed colors from all over. They will brighten up the N&W coal drags.

1.  I fully agree that it would be nice to see scale Amfleets, either RTR or kit form.  But I was wondering if you had considered the Amtrak Horizon cars by Atlas -- given your choice of southeastern prototype, the railfan side of my brain says that they would be prototypical.  They were also mixed in on LD trains, as were Amfleet [ or more typically Amfleet II once they were available ].

2.  Williams also made an Amfleet car in a 60 ft length from extruded aluminum.  Many [ many ] years ago I tried splicing some of these to make scale [ or close to scale ] length cars or Metroliners;  I had little trouble doing this per se, but I never found a way to blend in / disguise the joints* even though the cuts were quite clean [ carbide blade on table saw ] before I changed modelling venues.  They never reached the point where I had to solve the truck problem.  Maybe someone else more skilled in the art has tried this. 

Best regards, SZ

*As I recall it usually took three shells to make one good car;  this was because these shells were seconds [ or even "thirds" ] with misstamped windows, etc.  It was economically feasible to do this because as I recall they were a buck each;  they were sold at Greenberg shows by a nice young man named Mike-something -- wonder what ever happened to him.......

Scott Mann is always looking for ideas for new Golden Gate Depot passenger cars.  His extruded aluminum bodies have gotten better and better with each offering and would lend itself to production of Amfleet cars.  Since Scott often posts on the 3RS forum recommend you post an item on the 3RS forum regarding Amfleet cars to see how strong the interest would be.

Ed Rappe

I have a six car set of what I'm pretty sure are the Benson amfleet extrusions built up, they are scale 85'; while they look good the basic extrusion itself appears to be  incorrectly proportioned. In addition I have some eight 20 inch uncut extrusions that I believe were custom made by Elliot Weilz(sp?) from the die's the shorty Williams were made from roughly 25 years ago, they appear to be accurate per the attached comparison. I intended to have them milled to Metroliner configurations, it's a pretty involved project and may not ever get done at the rate I'm going.    

You need an end mill Benchmaster (used $200-400) and a 1/8" end mill, a fixture, and lots and lots of green cutting fluid.  Do not cut dry. Or wait for Sunset.

I'm hoping the recent runs of E7s, F7s, and future E8s foretell an increasing selection of high quality cars.  One thought I'm hoping for is an approach like Walthers has done in HO Scale with a skeleton core and the car sides, roof, ends, and underbody fasten to the core.  This allows different types of sides and roof per the prototype.  This concept in O Scale could go a long way toward offering different prototypes including Amtrak.  There are several cars in the upcoming Sunset Limited production, and Santa Fe productions that are bang on for Amtrak in a couple of different eras.  I would love to build a mid 1970s Amtrak east coast train like the Silver Meteor or Star, not to mention having the Seaboard Air Line Silver Star/Meteor done by Sunset.

I'd love to see scale Amfleet cars as well, but there is the challenge of how to fulfill   the minimum 2000 cars that are typical for a GGD run.  Amtrak does have 5 major paint schemes and a few minor variations, however even with the cafe car are there enough people out there to purchase that many cars?  I know I'd be good for at least 4 in Phase III paint.  Now to find homes for the 1996 cars

1.  Well, if they were sold in 5 car sets that's "only" 400 sets !

2.  In my opinion [ which, since I'm not in the model train building business ( I like to sleep soundly at night ), doesn't count for anything ] the way to Amfleet is through Metroliners.

      Specifically, four car sets, scale length of course:

 -  Powered coach, coach, snack, parlor

 -  Done [ or on order form ] as PRR, PC, Amtrak, Amtrak large

 -  Two car add on sets, snack + parlor

 -  Powered coach and parlor have A ends w/ doors closed;  all other cars have doors open, with corridor connections extended.

 -  Correct underbody boxes and pans for W [ coaches ] vs GE cars.

Amfleet [ "I "] cars would follow, and cab control cars if orders there.

In the words of Col. Dutch Imil, "It's simple"......

Best, SZ

PS:  Aside to 4877:  Wouldn't that blue/yellow unit be an F45 w/ steam lines ?

I agree that doing Metroliners as part of a run would go a long way towards meeting any minimums.  HOWEVER, Metroliner cars would be significantly more expensive to produce because of the pantographs, ends and underbody details.  So, right now an 8 car set of El Capitan cars is $2K.  Are you up for a 4 car set of Metroliners for $2K (end cars powered)?

Plus any Amfleet cars at the same time to meet the minimum # of units? 

The key element 3rd Rail has got going for them is a nice niche market for scale length passenger cars.  The challenge as the scale length endeavor proceeds (and not just 3rd Rail) is there has to be balance i.e. you cannot make a beautiful passenger train and not have the right power to pull it, as such you cannot make gorgeous passenger power with incorrect passenger cars behind them.  This in turn brings a whole new challenge as the cost of a new passenger train is in the 2 grand range.  A pair of units is about $1,000.  So it becomes a financial challenge for many folks due to the all at once delivery.

So for the Amfleet cars the key would be to hold the price down somehow, which means Golden Gate high quality injection molding.  With careful engineering Metroliners and later Amfleet II cars could also be done.  With the release there would be a need for power.  Previous releases of correct power are AEM 7 and FL9.  Those are hard to find and out of production, so next alternative is the future E8A.  Amtrak had three E8As that were converted to Head-End Power (HEP) and the generators were installed where the steam heat equipment was at the rear.  That would at least get modelers by for a while.

The Amfleet scenario would ultimately cry for new power and that would be for a highly accurate F40PH.   The challenge would be the tank drive as F40PHs don't have tanks the full length between the trucks.  Here lies a golden opportunity to do a high quality HO style tower drive and get away from tank systems all together.  

So you can see the challenges of just doing cars or just doing locomotives is not an easy one.  I would also encourage Atlas to consider doing scale length Amfleet cars and an F40PH.  It would be a terrific compliment to their previous releases.  One thing they've done well and Scott (3rd Rail) has too integrate post prototype scheme releases in their passenger product line i.e. California Zephyr cars in Amtrak Phase I paint.  There is still a lot of opportunity.

I think a perfect train for Atlas or GGD to consider is the Empire Builder.  Do the same thing Walthers did in HO Scale.  Offer original GN, Big Sky Blue GN, Burlington Northern, Amtrak Phase I, and later special cars i.e. Amtrak full dome as used in Auto Train and other corporate functions.

The main thing is if engineering can start out correct in the beginning with an indoskeleton design where adding prototype roof, sides, ends, and underbody elements separately. 

-  No, I'm not up for any Metroliners or Amfleets, irrespective of price -- I no longer model the PRR or successors.  I was just dispensing the usual "Oh, I'm not going to buy any" advice usually found on the forum....

-  The Cap had three distinct body styles [ Hi, transition, head end ] and at least two styles of trucks.   With the Metros, only one truck sideframe and one body shell;  other than that, the differences besides window placement are

   -  two types of pans and electrical boxes

   -  car numbers

   -  open or closed A end doors

   -  powered or unpowered

   -  telephone antenna on the snacks and parlors.

   -  three interiors, and the snack can be a coach subset.

Not a lot of differences.  Packaging for shipping should be universal.

Hence I would think $1500 is doable for 4 cars, 1 powered.

- I guess I'm out of touch:  Couldn't one Sunset powered unit handle three unpowered cars ?  Five ?

   And upon thinking about it further, the power unit should be a snack, to allow the motor unit in the car center to be less visible.

-  Finally, I wasn't thinking of the Metros and Amfleets being done at the same time but rather successively, with the amortization of the body shell work being divided between two jobs.  Of course, if whichever is second doesn't reach critical mass.....so they would have to be put on the order list at the same time, but staggered delivery.  I would have thought scale Metroliners alone could meet the 2000 car floor, but I could be wrong -- imagine that !

Best rgds, SZ

Its at least 7...

Phase I, II, III, IV, IVb, Acela Blotch (capstone) and the USPS Century set. 

Plus, there's Phase III cars specifically for the Metroliner, Phase IV cars in NE Direct and not NE direct, and there's the NE Regional Phase IVb cafe cars. 

The problem is you have the Amfleet I and II. Same extrusion, but you'd either have to make the decision to make one car or the other, or offer both and get the numbers right (they've been renumbered countless times over the years). 

Choosing Amfleet IIs would drop  Phase I and II from the list. Using Amfleet I's keep all the schemes in play (Delivered in 75 vs. 81) and the cars are configured for corridor service (more seats). Once you narrow down the options, we're talking many of the same car (coach) and a few of another (cafe). So few configurations would seem to me to keep the cost per car down, as its just repetition, not variation.

At a minimum, I'm in for Phase III and IVb.

If the cafe cars are available separately, options abound. Double bonus for making the Amfleet sleepers (triple bonus if you know they existed). 

quote:

I've been lobbying for those for quite a while.  But Amtrak only cars is a no go and with the really small numbers of reservations and sales for Amtrak cars I cannot argue.

Now, lets be honest here, the Amtrak cars that GGD has made thus far are "also rans" that have more or less dabbled around the periphery. I wouldnt say they're Amtrak cars in the true sense of the word.  I have the PS cars, and they're fine for mixing in to a Rainbow era train, but have their errors. I bought the El Cap set, but without SDP40Fs, I can see the extremely limited appeal (even with the engines, it would still be an oddball). Offering the bread and butter car for 40 years.... THAT would be a test of what the market is for Amtrak cars. Given the market for the engines, someone besides me needs cars.

Its the same extrusion as a Metroliner. They have Keystones on them... isnt there a big enough following of those to move the units? I dont see the 2K price being too out of line for 2 powered units and 2 cars.... at Scott's current prices, thats $1400 for two "engines" plus the added effort of hiding the guts in a body with windows, and then 2 more cars for $250-300 a pop. Sounds about right.

I'm counting at least 10 total possible paint jobs, special markings not included (7 Amfleet, 3 Metroliner). Given the total lack of modern passenger equipment, it seems like an offering is at least worth a shot.

Viewliners too! I know they'd have to be brass to make the numbers fit the tooling demands, but why the heck not? Only would need 2 or 3...

I talked with Haynes McDaniel(formerly Mac Shops) and he said he got his Amfleet extrusions from(he thought) someone in New York years ago.  Anyone have and clue?