I don't have a PE, but maybe someone involved should call Lionel this week and see if they will do something for everyone. Just a thought.
Bill Webb posted:Received five PE blue cars. Every car was defective. Journal caps, screws, etc, some in the box and others simply missing. The plate under one car simply fell off in my hand. It was so bad that we didn’t look at anything else.
Received three gold PE coaches. Paint on the second was marred. At this point we were six unacceptable and one okay after a cursory inspection, one unopened.
We simply packed them away.
Also received a new LionChief plus steamer Thursday; the controller was DOA out of the box and the Bluetooth wouldn’t stay connected for one lap around the track. 42 people witnessed that fiasco when we tried it out a Saturday night.
My wife is beyond livid as our grandchildren were included in this mess. Her comments would be considered bashing and I do not want to be offensive to anyone. I would like to respectfully and politely ask the folks at Lionel to get their house in order. It is harming the hobby.
I had a neighbor stop by earlier this afternoon with a new RTR Polar Express set that wouldn't run. He said the remote was DOA and the app would only connect for about 5 minutes and then disconnect and leave the train chirping. By the time he came to me had already spent the better half of (Christmas) morning trying to get it working.
We tried four different devices with the app and got the same results. I offered a universal remote which did operate the engine without issue but he declined and said this thing is going back. I then offered one of my "Patch Together" salvage engines for his kids to play with just so they wouldn't be discourage about getting a train in the future and I was happy that he did take that home. Hopefully they aren't turned off from toy trains permanently.
With this RTR set costing just over $300, I'd expect a better out-of-box experience.
This makes the 1970's MPC era look GREAT!
Anyone have any ideas on what to replace the “blue tint” windows? The greenish light coming out of the passenger cars is not what I expected. Should be warm white light. Any help is appreciated and Merry Christmas!
Im in no hurry to buy any more Lionel stuff. I have tons of trains so if I dont buy any more Im not going to miss them
Dis anybody get a set that was in perfect condition?
I received my cars from Charles Ro and started going through them. All cars had at least one journal cap that popped off at some point, I was able to push them back in except for middle journal locations - the bushings came out in these spots as well and I cannot get them and the cover back in. Two cars had glue/solvent smears and/or other blemishes on the blue/red paint. One car had a broken ground wire to truck; and the diner was worst of all, with loose items inside, cosmetic blemishes, and journal caps off. I finally figured out how to open the end to find the source of rattle, loose chairs and tables. I spent around 3 hours thus far trying to fix what I can, but clearly some will have to go back. My first call will be to Charles Ro.
I ordered gold coaches cars as well and need to go through them before calling Charles, missed them on the first run in 2014.
My past experience with Lionel repairs has been mixed. Half the items I've sent to NC have come back with something else broken or original problem not fixed. That's why I am attempting to fix what I can. This is a sorry state of affairs.
I can't believe the amount of defects being reported. This should have been a simple production run. The product was previously produced back in 2012 so the engineering and tooling should have been all de-bugged. This is strictly production quality problems. Lionel's Hitchcock's and Ryan's strategy of having " a couple of guys" over in China overseeing production doesn't seem to be cutting it.
Steims posted:Lionel's Hitchcock's and Ryan's strategy of having " a couple of guys" over in China overseeing production doesn't seem to be cutting it.
You don't really believe that happened, do you??
To add a different view: Saw a documentary some years ago on Chinese factories (loosely at the way ours were around 1900); business clients are not allowed in the factories to monitor the manufacturing process; production starts and ends and the client gets the sealed products; don't know if validating prototypes and making adjustments is always involved.
OTOH, my last five 2018 locos are excellent so far.
Going to China was making a deal with the devil. Once the priceless tooling went there, there was no getting it back. So all of these importers are held in contempt by what is in effect a monopoly. And now that they hold all of the cards, China can lessen quality and increase prices until the cows come home... and what can we do about it?
Jon 
I bought the Christmas Express LionChief set from Charles Ro at York.....no chuff/RS or smoke. Ro immediately made good on the engine and sent me a new one.....now, all I'm missing is smoke. I didn't send it back a second time. I figure it's loose wire somewhere and I'll look it over.......but, it is aggravating......
Contrast it to my 60 year old 1958 New Haven set.....runs like a Swiss watch.....
Apples and oranges, true. But, if technology advances in Lionel's product over a 60 year period, quality should not go 60 years backward.....
Peter
What can we do about it? The solution is simple.
”NOT BUY IT. At least on the island of misfit toys the toys work.”
Famous quote by Paula Webb, furious lady, school teacher, grandmother. Don’t mess with kids around her.
KOOLjock1 posted:Going to China was making a deal with the devil. Once the priceless tooling went there, there was no getting it back. So all of these importers are held in contempt by what is in effect a monopoly. And now that they hold all of the cards, China can lessen quality and increase prices until the cows come home... and what can we do about it?
Jon
Good Point Jon,
How long do you think it will be before we see a Chinese company start making Model trains that mirror what is being built today at hugely discounted prices (and quality)?
We see this happening in many other industries. I was at an outdoor show earlier this year and saw Chinese knock--off brand of ATV's and Side-by-Sides that were much cheaper than the known name brands out there. One year warranty and no dealer support... yikes.
I bought the 6 cars, two of them each have one journal box broken off. Also, found a loose screw in the box on another car, found the hole where it should go, but it won't thread into anything.
This seems to be an unprecedented amount of defective pieces. Last time anything like this happened was on one of the scale Polar Express locomotive trailing trucks. Same factory?
Perhaps a rebellion against US economic policies by one or more factory workers.
what a chaotic thread.
I watched a podcast that I had mentioned before on another thread. It was a well known player in the model train market. It was of their model train manufacturing in China. All the workers were lined up at tables sitting on little plastic stools. Stuff stacked everywhere. Looked like mostly women and none of them seemed to care about or respond to the man showing the factory. Pitiful looking place. Some blame does go to the companies for sure! But I see buyers complaining that things made in the US cost a bit more. And it is true. And all the machinery, technology, and product inside a Chinese factory belong to the government of China. Its a sad state of affairs for sure.
Ive seen the knock off 4 wheeler and side by sides also. Absolute junk. Cheap copy of a Honda engine.
I did get some rolling stock for Christmas. Just some simple stuff but it was all good. Maybe someday the production will return to the US. Probably not.
Jim
SJC posted:Made a special, out of the way, trip to the LHS to pick up the scale Polar Express Lionel cars to run around the tree this year. The engine was delivered in August - beautiful and perfect out of the box.
I bought 5 cars at $200 a pop, plus tax, in addition to the $1,500 engine. You do the math. Every single car has the bearings falling out and detail parts rattling around in the box. Totally unacceptable. They are all going back, I will not tolerate this.
Just an FYI for you guys that waited for these, you might want to check yours out.
.....And people wonder why I like Postwar Lionel.......
Had 2 loose ones. Do they hand press on. Held on by friction.
Mine are supposed to be here today. I hope there is nothing wrong with them. If there is I will be sending them back.
Received my 5 car set this morning from RO. Was real wary of opening the cars after reading this tread. I guess I was lucky. I (like Bryant above) had two loose journal covers and some paint blemish on the observation-not terrible and some odd other colors on a few trucks that I can simply paint black. Hate to live with the blemish but if I go with another one it may be worse. Have to really look to see what is has now. Have not had a chance to run them - may open a whole new can of worms when that happens.
Any body know what glue you need to put the journal covers back on?
prrhorseshoecurve posted:RickO posted:This can't be!!!..........
Howard Hitchcock stated on his last interview with Notch 6 that he had a QA team in place!!!!
Somewhere Mike Reagan is shaking his head.
And somewhere Howard has hand to face.
Maybe the team is in the wrong country, not China?
Vietnam anyone?
For what this stuff costs, there’s no excuse for any of this... but just like the automakers of the 70’s- as long as people keep buying this poorly made stuff, they’ll happily keep producing it.
Paul Kallus posted:Is there a layperson fix to the issues or will they require being sent for repairs, or is it so bad only replacement trucks will do?
Loose bearing caps have been an issue for years. Had some on a Southern Crescent set. Super easy fix. Just put them back in place with a little glue.
Received my cars today. 2 are missing brake shoes and 1 has a loose side frame. I can tighten the loose side frame but I wonder if Lionel will send me 2 brake shoes? I can put them on myself. Looks like I will be contacting customer service. Other than the problems mentioned above I consider myself lucky.
feet posted:Received my cars today. 2 are missing brake shoes and 1 has a loose side frame. I can tighten the loose side frame but I wonder if Lionel will send me 2 brake shoes? I can put them on myself. Looks like I will be contacting customer service. Other than the problems mentioned above I consider myself lucky.
I haven't picked my car's up yet but I'm afraid that because I'm a little bit of a layman when it comes to scale rolling stock... That I won't know what's missing unless it's broken off and rattling around. you're saying the shoes aren't even in there I don't know that I would even realize that :-(
ZenGardenRails posted:feet posted:Received my cars today. 2 are missing brake shoes and 1 has a loose side frame. I can tighten the loose side frame but I wonder if Lionel will send me 2 brake shoes? I can put them on myself. Looks like I will be contacting customer service. Other than the problems mentioned above I consider myself lucky.
I haven't picked my car's up yet but I'm afraid that because I'm a little bit of a layman when it comes to scale rolling stock... That I won't know what's missing unless it's broken off and rattling around. you're saying the shoes aren't even in there I don't know that I would even realize that :-(
Yes the shoes are not there, never installed at the factory. Carefully looked in the box, no brake shoes.
Picked up the set I ordered from Charles Ro at fedex and my experience is pretty much the same as everyone else, not good.
-I have 3 cars that have have scrapes, scratches, or noticeable blemishes on the roof. The problem is its not just a small scrape here and there, its like they tried to touch them up at the factory and all the spots stick out like a sore thumb because the spots seem glossier than the rest of the roof. Sorry, not acceptable on cars that are $200 each.
-All but one have journal covers that are popped off floating around in the box. Haven't tried to stick them back on yet.
-Another one has a couple pieces floating around inside. It is also one with bad paint on the roof, so I am not even going to attempt to fix it.
Going to call tomorrow Charles Ro and see if they have stock to exchange the 3 with paint blemishes.
*EDIT* I think at least some of the problems with the journal covers popping off is the shipping materials from Lionel. The plastic the cars are in offer no protection from impact and we all know how things get tossed around by fedex/ups.
Blue Streak posted:Any body know what glue you need to put the journal covers back on?
Three of my cars have two to three journal box covers off. Taking a look at these, I do not think glue is the answer. It looks like a press fit to me. HOWEVER, I would be very careful reinstalling them as the there is a correlation with the equalizing bar, which needs to be in place above the bearing. reinstalling the cover helter-skelter could mash the the bar if it slips down onto the face of the bearing.
I have been out of town today and not able to contact anyone yet. I want to hear from someone with the correct knowledge on how to reinstall the caps as the two pieces depend on each other, the journal cap holds the bearing in the proper location in the sideframe.
One figure has come loose in the diner and is doing the "Hot Chocolate" dance inside if i tilt the car around! Small problem compared to the journal caps!!!
breezinup posted:Paul Kallus posted:Is there a layperson fix to the issues or will they require being sent for repairs, or is it so bad only replacement trucks will do?
Loose bearing caps have been an issue for years. Had some on a Southern Crescent set. Super easy fix. Just put them back in place with a little glue.
Sorry, I didn't spend $1,000+ for a kit.
Friday is going to be a lousy rainy day - sounds like a perfect day to take these duds back to the store.
Are the journal covers separately applied pieces that fell off, or were they molded into the frame and actually broke off?
If they are separately applied pieces, how are they applied at the factory? Glue???
The exploded diagram shows no such applied piece.
I feel bad for all you who have had issues with your purchase(s), I really do. There's no excuse for such shoddy workmanship (or lack thereof) but...I have to ask (and I wouldn't be surprised if I get kicked off this forum for asking this):
Why on earth are you willing to spend $200(!) each on what are basically "fantasy" cars from an importer whose QC issues are common and very well known?
You can often find nice Walthers cars (built or unbuilt) at shows etc., for around $40-$50; have the fun of building them yourself, pick up some trucks (always easy to find), paint them, find someone to make you some decal sets, and there you are. I mean heck, if you have to spend the time to basically re-build these imported "R-T-Rs" anyway, why not just build 'em yourself, save some $$ and avoid the angst?
I know, "to each his own", but I just don't get it...and no offense was intended.
Mark in Oregon
NYC Fan posted:Are the journal covers separately applied pieces that fell off, or were they molded into the frame and actually broke off?
If they are separately applied pieces, how are they applied at the factory? Glue???
The exploded diagram shows no such applied piece.
See Bryant's post above.
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:SJC posted:Made a special, out of the way, trip to the LHS to pick up the scale Polar Express Lionel cars to run around the tree this year. The engine was delivered in August - beautiful and perfect out of the box.
I bought 5 cars at $200 a pop, plus tax, in addition to the $1,500 engine. You do the math. Every single car has the bearings falling out and detail parts rattling around in the box. Totally unacceptable. They are all going back, I will not tolerate this.
Just an FYI for you guys that waited for these, you might want to check yours out.
.....And people wonder why I like Postwar Lionel.......
Had 2 loose ones. Do they hand press on. Held on by friction.
I've fixed bunches of these popped off "bearing caps" over the years, but they will never come off again if you follow this repair technique. The equalizer bars lift slightly allowing the top of the bearing cap to be fitted. Place a small drop of CA in the lower bearing journal slot, and a small drop on the top of the upper cap tab on the cap itself. Carefully raise the equalizer bars a tiny bit. This is done by carefully pushing upward from the bottom of the bar, against the spring pressure downward. Gently place cap back into position, then release the equalizer bars so they rest on top of the cap. Helpful hints to the newbie: Try this "dry fitment" a few times before using the CA. You may want to enlist a good friend to help out placing the cap with good tweezers steadier hands etc.
Strummer posted:I feel bad for all you who have had issues with your purchase(s), I really do. There's no excuse for such shoddy workmanship (or lack thereof) but...I have to ask (and I wouldn't be surprised if I get kicked off this forum for asking this):
Why on earth are you willing to spend $200(!) each on what are basically "fantasy" cars from an importer whose QC issues are common and very well known?
You can often find nice Walthers cars (built or unbuilt) at shows etc., for around $40-$50; have the fun of building them yourself, pick up some trucks (always easy to find), paint them, find someone to make you some decal sets, and there you are. I mean heck, if you have to spend the time to basically re-build these imported "R-T-Rs" anyway, why not just build 'em yourself, save some $$ and avoid the angst?
I know, "to each his own", but I just don't get it...and no offense was intended.
Mark in Oregon
Unfortunately 3rail is an out of the box and run hobby.
Welcome to my world of broken trains.
Two years ago when I started listing on OGR Forum the difficulties I was having with the new Lionel engines, passenger cars and sound box cars, I was criticized, and my sanity was questioned by Forum members.
I am so glad others are now having an opportunity to share in my experience.
The Journals fell off my Pennsylvania 18" and Santa Fe "Scout" cars two years ago. Mine were able to be Krazy Glued back on. Be careful not to get glue on moving parts. I did have to buy two replacement trucks for a Pennsylvania dining car and another for a Southern Pacific Daylight 18" Sound Dining Car.
Those of us with major investments in Lionel Legacy-age equipment should be very concerned by the "QC" issues.
Does "QC" mean: a. Quality Control, b. Quit Complaining, or c. Quite Crappy?
Maybe Lionel will tell you to return them to your dealer and get your money back. I am still waiting for coupler parts for two of the fifty-five (55) 21" passenger cars I purchased in February, 2018, when Lionel said they had no parts for the new cars.
Sincerely, John Rowlen
John we still question your sanity
romiller49 posted:Unfortunately 3rail is an out of the box and run hobby.
Historically, that's true; perhaps due in part that 3-railed trains were first marketed as "toys"; dunno if $200.00 passenger cars can still be called that. 
Maybe the "out of the box and run" mind set is going to have to change; those willing to shell out that kind of dough may have to deal with a new norm of "out of the box and repair, then run".
In any case, it's a shame this type of situation exists...
Mark in Oregon
Thanks Matt. Every kind word helps.
Does anyone know if the new Broadway Limited K4 Set passenger cars have the same trucks? How about the Long Island passenger cars?
Sincerely, John Rowlen
One other thing that upsets me with these cars, the green window glazing. I have never seen a passenger car with green tinted windows, model or real. I will call Lionel tomorrow and see what they say. I am probably going to return them and get a refund if that's possible. I wonder if anybody from Lionel is following this thread?
