While doing some research on a project I stumbled upon this, I'm just shocked that these units were not parted out. I'm sure 567 still could have be used elsewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...8yac&feature=related
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The Galveston RR Museum scrapped their 2 Santa Fe F-units last year. They were apparently capable of running prior to Hurricane Ike but took on lots of flood waters and didn't run after wards. That museum doesn't get very much in the way of donation money and has very limited funds. The engines would have taken too much money to fix so they scrapped them as well as lots of other rolling stock in the collection. They are buying 2 F-units from elsewhere to replace them. The museum still hasn't fully recovered from that storm. The new philosophy seems to be that if it isn't capable of being moved in an emergency, it doesn't need to be there. I think that excludes their steam engines which are rusting away anyways.
The individual(s) who came up with this latest act of brilliance need to
be scrapped, or at the very least, used for parts....an eye here, an organ
there!
be scrapped, or at the very least, used for parts....an eye here, an organ
there!
quote:Originally posted by jaygee:
The individual(s) who came up with this latest act of brilliance need to
be scrapped, or at the very least, used for parts....an eye here, an organ
there!
Mebbe you should join the museum, run for for their board of directors and tell them how things should be done.
Rusty
quote:I'm sure 567 still could have be used elsewhere.
Not really. Not much call for 16-567C engines nor components anymore, especially from a unit that was flooded thru a hurricane.
I knew about the Galveston F units, I know they were in very bad shape with everything covered in mud head to toe, and they were not worth saving, plus they have some nicer units on there way (I presume they are already there at this point)
I just found it quite odd that this railroad just cut them up and nothing was offered for sale, IE units or parts, looking at there website shows they have 2 more fp10 units still there and kinda shocked that nothing appeared to be saved for the other units, possibly the other 2 are next,
I'm pretty sure 567 are still frequently used on short lines and museums regularly, maybe there is a surplus of parts or bad power assembly's in these units that deemed them unsalvagable.
It appears when when this video was shot 2010 wasn't scrap steel going for way less then earlier prices, I know there's a ton of preserved F units but sooner or later part sources will probably dry up.
I just found it quite odd that this railroad just cut them up and nothing was offered for sale, IE units or parts, looking at there website shows they have 2 more fp10 units still there and kinda shocked that nothing appeared to be saved for the other units, possibly the other 2 are next,
I'm pretty sure 567 are still frequently used on short lines and museums regularly, maybe there is a surplus of parts or bad power assembly's in these units that deemed them unsalvagable.
It appears when when this video was shot 2010 wasn't scrap steel going for way less then earlier prices, I know there's a ton of preserved F units but sooner or later part sources will probably dry up.
Visually the Galveston F units looked fine and were perfectly acceptable as display units. Inside however was a very different story. They did buy new ones but as far as I know they aren't there yet. They weren't on site last month when I was down there last.
Looks more like a Santa Fe engine instead of an ICG. LOCOMOTION
St. Louis just cut up a perfectly good FM switcher, and an Alco RS1. Were
they even offered for sale? Nope, I would have heard about the RS1 for sure.
Seems that nothing is safe anymore. A little accountability would not be
a bad idea at this unfortunate juncture in time.
they even offered for sale? Nope, I would have heard about the RS1 for sure.
Seems that nothing is safe anymore. A little accountability would not be
a bad idea at this unfortunate juncture in time.
From a business point of view, there is absolutely no market for a junk FM or Alco switcher today. It is worth its weight in scrap...that's it.
A locomotive or railroad car sitting outside for years on end ultimately reaches a "point of no return" where there is nothing left that is salvageable. Rust, corrosion, "critters" inhabiting the equipment and feeding on the electrical components and other problems ultimately result in a locomotive that no amount of money can save. At that point the only economical alternative is to get something out of it by selling it for scrap.
Not every piece of old rail equipment can be saved. Appreciate those that have been saved (like the 765) and try not to worry about those pieces of equipment that are ultimately scrapped.
A locomotive or railroad car sitting outside for years on end ultimately reaches a "point of no return" where there is nothing left that is salvageable. Rust, corrosion, "critters" inhabiting the equipment and feeding on the electrical components and other problems ultimately result in a locomotive that no amount of money can save. At that point the only economical alternative is to get something out of it by selling it for scrap.
Not every piece of old rail equipment can be saved. Appreciate those that have been saved (like the 765) and try not to worry about those pieces of equipment that are ultimately scrapped.
quote:Originally posted by jaygee:
St. Louis just cut up a perfectly good FM switcher, and an Alco RS1. Were
they even offered for sale? Nope, I would have heard about the RS1 for sure.
Seems that nothing is safe anymore. A little accountability would not be
a bad idea at this unfortunate juncture in time.
If it they were "perfectly good," they wouldn't have been scrapped.
The REAL trajedies were locomotives like CB&Q 5632 and GTW 5629 being cut up years ago because of the stubborness of their owner and legal morass created by his estate after he died.
Rusty
quote:Originally posted by OGR Webmaster:
From a business point of view, there is absolutely no market for a junk FM or Alco switcher today. It is worth its weight in scrap...that's it.
A locomotive or railroad car sitting outside for years on end ultimately reaches a "point of no return" where there is nothing left that is salvageable. Rust, corrosion, "critters" inhabiting the equipment and feeding on the electrical components and other problems ultimately result in a locomotive that no amount of money can save. At that point the only economical alternative is to get something out of it by selling it for scrap.
Not every piece of old rail equipment can be saved. Appreciate those that have been saved (like the 765) and try not to worry about those pieces of equipment that are ultimately scrapped.
Ahh Rich, you and your realistic, fact based, logical opinions. You'll be eating your words when NYC 3001 gets back out on the mainline
quote:You'll be eating your words when NYC 3001 gets back out on the mainline
And just whose main line would THAT be?
quote:Originally posted by Hot Water:quote:You'll be eating your words when NYC 3001 gets back out on the mainline
And just whose main line would THAT be?
Patience Hot Water, they gotta get her goin first!
quote:Originally posted by RickO:quote:Originally posted by Hot Water:quote:You'll be eating your words when NYC 3001 gets back out on the mainline
And just whose main line would THAT be?
Patience Hot Water, they gotta get her goin first!
Fat chance of THAT happening!
Who says that everything in a museum has to run? Even if those two units
at St.Louis could NEVER be restored, does that mean they have no value?
I mean they are museum pieces for a reason. IF perfect operating
condition is a prerequiste to being saved for posterity, then we should
expect Sou. 1401 to be scrapped any day now to help pay down the
national debt! Not all museums have the intelligent leadership to begin to
appreciate these things. And yes, here we go on the slippery slope of so
called personalities, and /or personal issues. Yup, where was the so called
fan base to step in and save us from the ruination of the late '50s...
and it would appear, today as well. I'll tell you the problem. If we don't
hang together, we'll all hang separately! ...said Ben Franklin. And so it
is with American rail enthusiasts today. I've yet to find three railfans who can agree on how to take a picture, yet alone save a steam locomotive!
Too bad, for personal reasons, ranging from stupid to downright illegal,
we still can't get our collective act together. Perhaps we could learn
something here from the Brits...but then again, perhaps not.
Ouch - that comment about "Brits" hurt. That said we have scrapped at the last minute some real railway gems such as some of the steam engines scheduled for presevation in the 60,s and then destroyed and more recently the Diesel Hydraulic "Warship" class loco that went in the late 80's.
BUT most of the time I think we get it right.
F - Units my all time favourites, a very sad video.
I belong too an local railroad museum, that has alot of equiment that just sits there and rusts away, we just recently as of this past Wednesday February 8th 2012, we just got rid of an Rusty piece of equipment that we have had since 1984, it was an donation from an local railroad, the only thing it was used for was storage, very little was ever done too it, it was an Freebie, just the same it was taken up valuble track space, there are several railroad museums around the country that have the same problem, too much equipment not enough money or manpower to restore it, our group and several other groups try and do the right thing and advertise the items for sale, but if no body comes along and buys it, the last choice you have is to scrap it, if you can't restore it, don't buy it.
Originally Posted by C&O Railroader:
... our group and several other groups try and do the right thing and advertise the items for sale, but if no body comes along and buys it, the last choice you have is to scrap it, if you can't restore it, don't buy it.
That's the catch. Many people don't realize what it takes to move, let alone restore old railroad equipment.
Way back, when the Northwestern Steel and Wire ex-GTW 0-8-0's were retired, everybody and their brother wanted one. NS&W said basically, "come and get 'em."
Only IRM and I believe one other group came up with the resources to save one.
They sat on a siding in Sterling, IL, IRM got title to the remaining 0-8-0's and was able to act as a "buffer" for to wait someone to come up with a plan.
Nobody did.
Eventually, they were stripped of usable parts, scrapped on site and the scrap money went to help rescue ex-CB&Q 2-8-2 4963 from a scrap yard in Chicago, which was about to meet the torch itself.
Rusty
Originally Posted by RickO:
Ahh Rich, you and your realistic, fact based, logical opinions. You'll be eating your words when NYC 3001 gets back out on the mainline
Rick, if you really believe that, perhaps you would be interested in a parcel of ocean-front property that I have for sale in Kansas. 
The key word here is "nobody". If this type of information was available, then
"somebody" might be able to help. And how are we supposed to find out
about all of these lost treasures, etc.??? That's a big part of the challenge,
both in the past, and today. I'd like to say that this is just another aspect of
our cultural meltdown, but we never had the proper means of communication
going in the first place. Too bad, waaay too bad.
The very first GG1 sits just outside the Pennsylvania Museum, rotting away. The owners haven't even put her under a tarp or temporary roof. Sad.
Originally Posted by jaygee:
The key word here is "nobody". If this type of information was available, then
"somebody" might be able to help. And how are we supposed to find out
about all of these lost treasures, etc.??? That's a big part of the challenge,
both in the past, and today. I'd like to say that this is just another aspect of
our cultural meltdown, but we never had the proper means of communication
going in the first place. Too bad, waaay too bad.
It's not about cultural meltdown. The key phrase is: "Many people don't realize what it takes to move, let alone restore old railroad equipment."
Information and good intentions won't move anything. An appeal may get a temporary stay of execution, but initial planning usually has to be in motion by that time.
You just can't hook up an old piece of equipment to the local peddler and move it to your location.
You've got to have the financing, via fundraising, donations(time, money, labor, equipment, insurance) or sugar-daddy.
It can take weeks or month's to prepare an object for movement on its own wheels.
If it can't roll on its own, you have to contract and coordinate for cranes and heavy duty tractor-trailers on both ends and figure out what roads you're going to use, coordinate with local officials en route and sometimes even utilities to raise lines if they're hanging too low.
Rusty
You just proved my point! None of this is going to happen automatically.
It takes time and preparation; none of which will happen without communication.
Case in point; what is the RR enthusiast community doing today to provide for
tomorrow's restoration and preservation activities??? Out side of a few people,
the answer is a resounding NADA!!!! We were and remain our own worst enemy!
Originally Posted by rattler21:
NYC 3001 couldn't run again for less than $1.5 million. Neither will the Berkshire at the Hammond, Indiana Civic Center. Several years ago, the Village of Lansing, Illinois spent $5.1 million to refurbish a new village hall. Had they held that to 3.1 and put 2 million into the Berkshire it could have been put in a city park adjacent to their CP main line. Rail week once a year would have been a national drawing card.
John
Did I just detect another foamer fantasy?
City infrastructure funding generally doesn't get earmarked to another city, especially to one out of state. Had Lansing held the renovations to 3.1 mil, the remaining 2 mil would have likely gone to another city project needing funding, like maybe cops, fire department, EMT's...
To anybody who thinks securing and moving heavy metal is easy, may I suggest the following article on IRM moving Santa Fe 4-8-4 #2903 form the Museum of Science and Industry to Union:
http://www.irm.org/railwire/rw154.html#2903b
Rusty
