SD70 LIONEL 3 RAIL DIESEL UP ROAD CONTROL QUESTION

Without any data, hard to say what you have.  How about a picture so we can hunt down the engine.  Obviously, the SKU is what would help us help you.

Hello

Thanks for your response i will hunt down the info you request!

Thanks Charles

Hi

Here are a couple of pics. I cannot find either the box or invoice to furnish the SKU#. Hopefully you don't need it  as I imagine  "whats under the hood" is pretty much the same with all these locos.

@CHARLES D posted:

Hi

Here are a couple of pics. I cannot find either the box or invoice to furnish the SKU#. Hopefully you don't need it  as I imagine  "whats under the hood" is pretty much the same with all these locos.

Should you purchase any more locos in the future. It's advisable to keep the box or at least write down the item#.

Lionels electronics have been evolving every few years, so electronics are not necessarily the same across the line.

Lastly, most folks keep the boxes in case you ever need to store or ship the loco for any reason.

Assuming Lionel only used that cab number once. It could be this model:

http://www.lionel.com/products...d70ace-8937-2033590/

Hi RickO

Thanks for that; good point I had not realised that re the electronics. I do have ALL my boxes [inner and outer] so will wade through them and find it over the next few days.

Wishing all you folks a great 2023! Charles

Hello again,

The SKU is: CS-2033590. Found the box at last!

Charles

I have been unable to actually confirm what catalog this was in. I don’t see it in 19 V2 but that’s where the other SD70ACe’s are cataloged. If this is where it came from then it will be RCMC with a separate Bluetooth board but with the sku starting with “20” stating the manufacturer year also means it’s possible it has a LCP3.

if you can post pictures of what boards are on the inside then we can possibly help

Hello Zachariah

I will do as you say and post some photos of the boards. Really appreciate your help! Charles

@CHARLES D posted:

Hello again,

The SKU is: CS-2033590. Found the box at last!

Charles

Thats the same loco in the link I posted above. Unfortunately, Lionel has no parts listed at this point.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...EGACY-SD70ACe-8937_2

Hello Zac,

Development!! I attach some pics as requested which I hope may help you with the identification. However in doing this the loco now responds to the Lionel app on my phone which is great and indicates loose wire/connection.

I thought I would double check the remote again and reprogramming with a new number but there is no connecvtion definitely between the Legacy remote and the loco.  The other thikng [in case it is relevant is that as soon as I power up the trasck the loco starts up whereas it should stay silent until called for with the remote or app.

Thanks again

Charles

That is the older RCMC board, so the BT board should be tucked in somewhere.

Hello Rick,

Just seen your reply! Thats what I found this morning but was hoping that info was incorrect! So it looks as though I am stuck with the loco as it is. Or maybe not? At least it now responds [for the moment!] with Bluetoothn which is a heck of a lot better thanconventional which is all I had until I removed the "shell" a few minutes ago!

Thanks for your help on this one. Regards Charles

Do you have other Legacy locos that respond normally, Charles?

There are some simple checks just in case its something easy.

When you power up the layout.  Try powering up the Legacy base first.

Then the transformer for the track.

Also, are you using any type of extension cord for the base wall wart? Sometimes the extension cord can degrade the Legacy signal.

One side of the signal is transmitted via the base plug ground lug through and broadcast through the wiring in the walls of your train room.

The other side of the signal comes from the command base wire and is broadcast from the outside rails of your track.

I believe your home electricity differs a bit from ours here in the States. I don't know what, if any issues that may create.

@CHARLES D posted:

Hello from the UK [England]. I am probably one of the few, if not the only, modern Lionel collector over here. I very much appreciate the help I have recieved from you guys in  the past  as there is nobody to ask or talk to over here! Also it is really expensive to send a loco back and forth across the "Pond" for repair.

The problem I have is that this Legacy and Bluetooth equipped loco has suddenly decided to NOT respond to either of these commands  and I can only use in conventional transformer mode.

I  have removed the body shell and can see nothing visibly wrong. I have also removed the antenna unit and refitted. No luck. The problem is that I have no idea how to test anything or if I just go ahead and replace the likely faulty parts what parts to order.

I don't have the SKU # to hand but purchased just pre covid from Brian at Legacy Staion, so say 4 years ago.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!    Charles

Charles since the engine seems to have come back to like, try reseating all the boards carefully. It just might do it.

Hi Rick, Thanks for your message. I have 15 mainly Visionline locos all of which work OK [so far!!!]. I will check as you suggest and, yes, thats another complication with Lionel in the UK: we operate on 230volts so one needs a transformer to step down to 115v. But also we are on different "cycles" which one can't do anything about easily.

***Does the aerial mounted in the loco "shell" just recieve from the Lionel remote or Bluetooth as well please? Depending on which one will know if its good or bad. Is there a test procedure if I remove the aerial?

Thanks also for the reseating suggestion; I did try that first thing.

Regards

Charles

TMCC/Legacy communications from the remote go to the command base strictly RF like a walkie-talkie.  The original TMCC BASE1/CAB1 used 27mhz transmission to the base, the Legacy command system uses 2.4ghz transmission to the command base.

The TMCC/Legacy track signal is a 455khz FSK signal.  One side of the signal is connected to the outside rails from the track connection on the command base.  The other side of the signal is connected to the earth ground pin of the outlet and is radiated from the building wiring to the internal antenna in the TMCC/Legacy locomotive.

The Bluetooth link to LC and Legacy engines goes directly from the handheld device to the locomotive Bluetooth receiver.

Hello John

Thanks for your helpful reply. So am I correct in assuming that the internal aerial attached to the shell of the loco is for the Legacy remote only? If so since the remote is the only thing that the loco won't respond to would indicate that the aerial is faulty.

If so, is it simple to test and is it a generic part or specific to my loco? And chances of obtaining a replacement??

Sorry for all the questions!!!

Best regards Charles

Well, not much goes wrong with the antenna, other than perhaps it being disconnected.  The antenna can be a simple as a piece of wire, they don't go "bad".

The antenna in the shell is for the TMCC/Legacy track signal, it doesn't receive directly from the remote.

As others have said that’s the RCMC with a separate Bluetooth board. If Bluetooth works that’s good. Since it’s just not responding to cab commands when it powers up do sounds come on immediately or does it stay silent until you connect with Bluetooth?

Hello again Zac

Thanks for your help! Basically unlike all my other locos it comes to life [lights on and sound] as soon as you power up the track. With all the others you have to call up the loco number on the remote or connect with the loco via Bluetooth for that to happen.

However although the lights are on and engine running at that point you still have to "connect" it to the Lionel app on my phone. By cycling the transformer in the usual way it will also work in conventional mode. But no way will it connect to the remote. I have tried reprogramming/ new number etc without success.

It seems even if you kind folk diagnose the problem i will still be stuck since, apparently, no parts are available?

Thanks Charles

Parts are most likely available, Lionel just hasn't gotten around to posting them yet.

Hi John That's great news (once I've been told what to order)

I appreciate your help as ever! Charles

I'd give them a call and see what the deal is on parts for that model.

OK Will do, thanks. Charles

Sounds like it’s not seeing the command signal. As long as other locomotives work fine in the same situation we know it’s not the layout.

If the antenna looks good not pinched wiring the radio board is your problem. Issue is you cant get just the radio board it comes as an assembly with the RCMC. On a long shot you could check the solder connection on the radio board (little board on top of the main RCMC) to make sure there are no cold solder joints

Thanks I will check that out one more time! Regards Charles