Some of that clean firing with recycled oil

That photo plainly shows two glaring points:

1) the Engineer doesn't know what he's doing.

and 

2) the Fireman doesn't know what he's doing either.

Besides, weren't you guys still using Bunker C, when that trip was made?

Hot Water posted:

That photo plainly shows two glaring points:

1) the Engineer doesn't know what he's doing.

and 

2) the Fireman doesn't know what he's doing either.

Besides, weren't you guys still using Bunker C, when that trip was made?

That was the Montana trip.  Dumped Bunker for PS 300 by then ... or maybe it was PS 400.  Distributor said "just heavy residuum oil cut with diesel makes PS 300 or 400".

Hey, those were the "best engineer and best fireman" .... same handful of guys the entire trip.  ;-)

Kerrigan posted:

Hot Water posted:

That photo plainly shows two glaring points:

1) the Engineer doesn't know what he's doing.

and 

2) the Fireman doesn't know what he's doing either.

Besides, weren't you guys still using Bunker C, when that trip was made?

That was the Montana trip.  Dumped Bunker for PS 300 by then ... or maybe it was PS 400.  Distributor said "just heavy residuum oil cut with diesel makes PS 300 or 400".

Hey, those were the "best engineer and best fireman" .... same handful of guys the entire trip.  ;-)

Yea, figures!  Funny how, when we went to the Montana Rail Link with 4449, after about the first week, more than one of the MRL executives kept asking, "How come this engine doesn't smoke like that 700?". 

Kerrigan posted:

Hot Water posted:

That photo plainly shows two glaring points:

1) the Engineer doesn't know what he's doing.

and 

2) the Fireman doesn't know what he's doing either.

Besides, weren't you guys still using Bunker C, when that trip was made?

That was the Montana trip.  Dumped Bunker for PS 300 by then ... or maybe it was PS 400.  Distributor said "just heavy residuum oil cut with diesel makes PS 300 or 400".

Hey, those were the "best engineer and best fireman" .... same handful of guys the entire trip.  ;-)

Could the oil that was purchased had issues?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Kerrigan posted:

Hot Water posted:

That photo plainly shows two glaring points:

1) the Engineer doesn't know what he's doing.

and 

2) the Fireman doesn't know what he's doing either.

Besides, weren't you guys still using Bunker C, when that trip was made?

That was the Montana trip.  Dumped Bunker for PS 300 by then ... or maybe it was PS 400.  Distributor said "just heavy residuum oil cut with diesel makes PS 300 or 400".

Hey, those were the "best engineer and best fireman" .... same handful of guys the entire trip.  ;-)

Could the oil that was purchased had issues?

Nope!

It was a photo runby.  Proper firing practices and putting on a show to keep the crowd happy aren't exactly the same thing sometimes...

Overkill, I agree...

Smokin' the town.

Altoona Kansas, Feb 8th, 2004.  Super Bowl XXXVIII Tour.

But wait...there's more!

Smoke and engineers leaning out the cab windows!

Boils down to some folks have "the touch" and many don't.

Neat trick on runbys was Kyrian's method: leave the firing valve alone and shut the air down some by using the damper.   To clean up, open the damper.  No need to crowd the fire like most do.

kgdjpubs posted:

It was a photo runby.  Proper firing practices and putting on a show to keep the crowd happy aren't exactly the same thing sometimes...

Overkill, I agree...

Nope, that was NOT a photo runby.

Hot Water posted:

kgdjpubs posted:

It was a photo runby.  Proper firing practices and putting on a show to keep the crowd happy aren't exactly the same thing sometimes...

Overkill, I agree...

Nope, that was NOT a photo runby.

Wow!  Everything else I've seen on that Montana trip, they were firing very clean except for the runbys.  Wonder what happened there if that was just "normal" operation???

kgdjpubs posted:

Hot Water posted:

kgdjpubs posted:

It was a photo runby.  Proper firing practices and putting on a show to keep the crowd happy aren't exactly the same thing sometimes...

Overkill, I agree...

Nope, that was NOT a photo runby.

Wow!  Everything else I've seen on that Montana trip, they were firing very clean except for the runbys.  Wonder what happened there if that was just "normal" operation???

Maybe you didn't see "all the operations" on the Montana Rail Link? Like when the Engineer was showing off while exiting the big tunnel, and smoked/sooted EVERYONE in the cab, including the MRL executives, who were NOT happy?

Uh-oh... No wonder steam isn't welcome on some roads....tick off the brass and get banished.   

colorado hirailer posted:

Uh-oh... No wonder steam isn't welcome on some roads....tick off the brass and get banished.   

Not quite!  The management of the Montana Rail Link didn't "banish" SP 4449, after the 700 visited there.

That ain't nothin', I could smoke 'em up better than that with a dead cold GE!!! And good diesel fuel fuel at that!

Many years ago on the Union Pacific, before Steve Lee came on the scene,  the 8444 (as it was numbered then) was ALWAYS smoking up a storm. I seem to recall a statement from someone in charge back then that they liked to make smoke, or something like that. Whenever I saw a picture of the 8444 in that era with a towering column of smoke above it, I cringed.

Jack, you know more about the history of the UP program than I do...does this ring a bell?

OGR Webmaster posted:

Many years ago on the Union Pacific, before Steve Lee came on the scene,  the 8444 (as it was numbered then) was ALWAYS smoking up a storm. I seem to recall a statement from someone in charge back then that they liked to make smoke, or something like that. Whenever I saw a picture of the 8444 in that era with a towering column of smoke above it, I cringed.

Jack, you know more about the history of the UP program than I do...does this ring a bell?

Absolutely, Rich.  For one thing, the "steam program" was under the Mechanical Department, and thus most times the Engineer was Frank Acord, CMO. In my opinion, Mr. Acord was NOT the "best" Engineer, and generally did NOT understand proper use of the reverse gear in association with throttle, especially when not at full throttle. Thus, whomever was firing , was always "forcing the fire" in order to maintain steam pressure, while constantly running the Worthington Feedwater Pump. 

In addition, back in the days prior to Serve Lee, the UP was still using the "heavy fuels", i.e. Bunker C., or some "nasty stuff" from Sinclair, who was on on-line shipper out in Wyoming.

UP 844 REALLY smoking it up

Granted it was a cloudy day.  If this was in model form, how many people would return it for a faulty smoke unit?

At 60mpH

About 20 mph

GG1 4877 posted:

UP 844 REALLY smoking it up

Granted it was a cloudy day.  If this was in model form, how many people would return it for a faulty smoke unit?

At 60mpH

About 20 mph

Jonathan,

Those photos (above) are from the post "Steve Lee era", and would also be after 844 received a complete new firebox and fire brick work (returned to duty in 2005), as well as using recycled waste oil for fuel. Unless the Fireman is sanding out the tubes, 844 doesn't put out huge clouds of smoke on a regular basis any longer.

Hot Water posted

Jonathan,

Those photos (above) are from the post "Steve Lee era", and would also be after 844 received a complete new firebox and fire brick work (returned to duty in 2005), as well as using recycled waste oil for fuel. Unless the Fireman is sanding out the tubes, 844 doesn't put out huge clouds of smoke on a regular basis any longer.

That makes a lot of sense.  I took these in 2011 when the 844 came to Phoenix a little early to celebrate Arizona's centennial.

Interesting from an "old coot":

When I was a kid (many long years ago) we had a "circulating pot heater" in the house. This required #1 fuel oil and that stuff was definitely not kerosene. When we finally got central heat the boiler (with a pressure-atomized "gun" burner) used #2 fuel oil.

After I went into power plant operation work I found out that there were six grades of fuel oil, #1 through #6 although there were no refineries that actually produced #3 fuel oil. Numbers 4, 5 and 6 were also known as Bunker A, Bunker B and Bunker C oil.

Of course THAT was way too simple and what was available on the West Coast was designated PS 300, PS 400 and PS something or other. The PS stood for Pacific Standard but I was never able to find such a reference in any textbook.

PS #300 was a fairly light residual oil that would burn in rotary cup burners with minimal to no preheating. It required no preheating for transport. It still was a "residual" oil that came from the refinery after the gasoline, kerosene, and lighter fuel oils had been distilled off. It was black as tar but never got that sticky unless you put it in a freezer. In the winter it was sometimes blended with a PS 200 oil to keep it from congealing in really cold weather.

Everything "heavier" than PS 300 was generically known as Bunker C regardless of what its actual specifications might be. I've burnt "Bunker C" that was as light as PS 300 and some that needed to be heated to more than 100 degrees F just to pump. Normal burning temperatures (the temperature of the oil just before it ignites in the furnace) would run from a low of about 150 to as high as 190. I've read of some Bunker C that required a burning temperature as high as 250 degrees.

Most of the oil I have burnt during my lifetime (and it has been many thousands of gallons) was burnt in steam atomizing burners. My last boiler plant burnt #2 dyed ultra low sulfur oil with steam atomization. The burner was about six feet long and weighed in the neighborhood of 75 pounds. That is a fair amount of burner when it is inserted into the boiler at eye level.