The Alco PA

PA round up in O Gauge's. Bob2 did a bronze cast on the highly accurate MTH shell.

Lionel PA is really amazing! If your high rail this model is more than adequate. Beautiful really. image
MTH is very nice and can be super detailed and finished. Another great PA in plastic!
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OMI's brass PA's from those 2nd run in the 90's. Beautiful models with tower drive these are without doubt the 2nd best on the market.
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Key's dynamic duo. On the left Samhongsa 1989 run and right the FM Train Model 2011 run.
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My all time favorite PA in any scale. The drop dead gorgeous ultimate PA. Masterful with full engine room detail. Ball bearings everywhere and lights galore. imageimageimageimage

Ancient and in 17/64.. CLW's original PA. These photos are not mine but excellent samples. Thank you photographer please let us know who you are if you can.

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http://denveroscaleclub.org "Since 1935"

http://coloradooscale.org "Run Trains, Have Fun!"

Not sure why I continue......

Those beautiful photos did not transfer well on my iPad.

 

I think the PA is the most handsome Diesel locomotive.  The ones shown in Erik's fine shots are not the first of CLW's efforts - the first were all sand-cast with accurate nose, in 17/64.  The next generation had a lost-wax nose casting with incredibly inaccurate proportions, given the obvious availability of accurate noses.  But they had grille castings that were perfect, and the best PA sprung trucks ever, except maybe Key.

 

So, while my favorite train forum is about 50% dedicated to food items, at least this week, I shall again share my PAs here.

This is my first purchase - all sand- cast.  Some day I will finish those number boards and headlight.

 

Erik,  I'm sure the G,M&O PA is mine.  I did a lot of work to reshape the roof profile and the front cab widows on the this engine which was built from a CLW kit.  Lots of filing and a new brass overlay to get the correct look for the front windshield.  Also needed to fabricate the illuminated large number board on the cab roof.  Painted by Muncel Chang from California, also used etched brass screen panels from Joe Gamby.  Full cab interior, done in brass because I thought it had to be done that way.  Forming the dash was not easy, result was good.  I'm not sure I would do it that way again. Did it with a propane torch because that is all I had at the time. Where did you find the photo?

Here is the MTH body in nickel-silver.  Those trucks are from my masters - an experiment.

 

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures handy but as Erik already said the Overland Models (brass) Santa Fe PA, PB, PA set (second series from the 1990's) are the best PA's ever done by any importer up to then - period - and I feel very fortunate owning a set. Other importers like Lionel and MTH have come close to reproducing them in plastic/diecast but for absolute fidelity and finish almost nothing else even comes close. Of course they're rare and expensive but as they say 'quality wins out every time'! For anyone interested in seeing the PA's details close up Erik's photos are amazing.

I think we can see why Erik posts on the 3-rail scale forum.  His response there is quite good.

 

I compared the MTH shell with the first Key run - I figured that was a good test.  And I compared it after the investment process, which yields about a half percent shrink.  Very favorable in size and detail.  If I were wealthy, I would do the same with the Lionel shell.

PA roundup



Right Of Way Industries Ajin Korea 3 rail



OMI first run Ajin Korea 2 rail


Sunset Samhongsa 2 rail


Central Locomotive Works 17/64 2 rail



Overland Models 2nd run Ajin 1999 (the 2nd best PA out there in my opinion)

Key Imports on the left Samhongsa (1989), Key Model Imports on the right FM Train Model (2011)

Lionel scale version 3 rail


MTH scale version 3 rail

Key Imports PA's by Samhongsa 1989 photo courtesy: (c) Roger Lewis

I really hope 3rd rail makes some Alco PA's soon.  A D&RGW consist in black bumblebee would be awesome with the Atlas CZ!

 

http://coloradooscale.org/revi...s-atsf-santa-fe-pas/

2 rail needs a decent plastic PA that doesn't require major surgery to convert and glue the pilot to the nose.



       

The PA locomotive IMO is one of the most beautiful locomotives. Its so very ascetically appealing to the eye.

 

I like it in pretty much in all liveries with the Delaware and Hudson being my favorite.

One day I hope to own a PA. 

Well, nuts.  I just typed a neat reply, and it disappeared.

 

Here is a photo: my first attempt at a metal PA.  It was done at a local foundry using the shell casting method - similar to lost wax investment casting.  The workers were not familiar with detail castings and filed away a lot of the lower body.  They had to weld on new metal and re-create the belt rail in spots.

 

The neat reply, since lost, addressed how easy it would be to make the MTH plastic body a 2-rail body.

 

Thanks, Erik, for saving the thread with your beautiful photography.

Wanting a SP AB set, I have thought about starting with MTH 3 rail set to convert.

 

Thoughts-ncng

Love the Erie Lackawanna done by Lionel with Mike Wolf adding the exact match B unit from MTH:

 

 

I would really like to see 3rd Rail do this one,the most striking of all of the diesels.  I have to check out my books to see if the Pennsy had them in DGLE.  If so,I'd be in for a set.  ?

 

Norm

Lionel body seems to be excellent tooling, but the Lionel is the only one with the anti-climber behind the body.

 

Nice capsule of images.  

The ultimate Alco 2000 PA in any scale. Key Model Imports 2010/2011 run by FM Train Model.


https://ogrforum.com/t...79#41553383015691179

https://ogrforum.com/t...anta-fe-atsf-details

Norm - PRR bought 5 ALco PA-1/PB-1 A-B-A sets delivered in DGLE 5 gold stripes.  In later years some were repainted in the 5 stripe Tuscan passenger scheme.  Two re-geared PA-1's in freight service were repainted in the single narrow stripe DGLE scheme.

 

I'd like to see Sunset follow up the E8/9 program with PA/PB's.

 

Ed Rappe 

There are many PA's I would like to own I can't afford to pay $6500 a set to get them. 2 rail plastic needs a good PA!

Thank you for your response,Ed.  I too would like to see this locomotive done by Sunset.  I would personally like to get the single stripe DGLE scheme as my first choice.

Ed,did the Pennsy also regear a PB for freight?

 

Norm

Exactly! I hope Scott Mann is reading this!

 

I know what you mean, I like how strong yet smooth they look. Such a strange combination. A really wonderful design.

Me too. MTH originally produced a 2-rail version.  As soon as they make the PA with convertible truck blocks, you will be back in business.  The Lionel, meanwhile, looks as though you could simply glue the pilot to the body without spacers, and have a credible model.  I have no idea what it would take to adapt 2-rail power, but for those less adept I bet Jay C could figure it out.

 

I just dropped a pair of Pittmans and six CLW transmissions into my MTH.  Runs fine.

 

Unlike Erik, I think what we need are die cast PAs and E-7s.  That will never happen.

Norm - long after the PRR PA-1's were re geared for freight service (5 stripe Tuscan red A units served as helpers on the Elmira branch!) the 5 PRR PB-1's served in passenger service pool MU'd with EMD E units.  Photos show at least one PB-1 painted Tuscan red in the post 1956 era wide single stripe passenger scheme.  In the mid 1950's several highly visible changes were made to the PA-1's.  These include a pair of rectangular screened vents to the side of the nose door, and large stand off 45 degree number  boards.  A good source for PRR PA-1/PB-1 info is the same soft cover book I cited in the E8/9 thread Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume  Seven  EMD E Units and ALco PAs

 

Ed Rappe

 

Santiago, the Lionel legacy PAs are easily super detailed to equal almost anything. With your skills you can follow the series I did on this and reproduce my efforts. Bob 2 you can't just mount the pilot with or with out a spacer on the Lionel as it just doesn't look right. Too high water. IMHO anyway.

 

Sorry guys couldn't resist posting my Alcos.

 

I'm
Glad you did Ron! Pure awesomeness





       

I've always liked the Alco PA/PB locos.  As a kid we had AF trains and the Super Chief was pulled by an A-B-B set.  Since then I've always liked that lash-up.  Was it correct?  I don't know and never cared to look it up.

 

Some day I want to put my drives into some of these.  I looked at buying some of the Right of Way models to do just that but have yet to proceed with actually doing it.  I do have some of the early CLW kits but they just don't inspire me enough to go that route.  Maybe someone with more money than brains will have me do it for them.  Might be better odds.

 

Another "Bucket List" item I suppose.

 

Jay

I too really want Scott to do the PA/PB. I have a feeling he just might. It seems to fit his criteria.

What superlative lines the PA's had.  Wow.  The FA1 is the same way: So unique and aggressive looking.

 

Alco's styling was soooo different from EMD's.

 

Love the old EMD F's as I do, the Alco's have moved right up there alongside them (or even edged a bit ahead?) to my eyes.

 

PAs are certainly high on the desirability list.  A stumbling block seems to be the trucks.  They are very expensive to make to 3rd Rails standards.  My guess is they are trying to come up with an acceptable way of making them sprung (which is the 3rd Rail standard for all 3 axle trucks) but with the equalizers fixed to reduce costs.  Where an E unit truck without equalizers may cost $5 materials and labor to make, a PA truck with working equalizers will cost $25-50 to make (I made up the numbers, it's the ratio that matters).  So you are currently looking at a price increase of $50-100 per unit which appears to be out of the current market's acceptability range.

PA from a highly modified CLW kit to correct cab roof profile and front windshield.  Fabricated the large illuminated number board on the cab roof.  Harmon

 

MaybeSunset should fall back and look again.  A three axle truck should be equalized, but will work just fine if the journals do not individually move.  The PA truck can be made in three pieces - two brake cylinders and a main casting.  Then dummy coil springs can be snapped in.  

 

That's what I did, and while my truck is not as good looking as the sprung CLW, it is adequate.  Sell these things with the caveat that it would cost a hundred more to have fully sprung trucks, and watch the orders pile in?

 

I have horrible track, and giant superelevation.  I have no problems with rigidframe locomotives, even six wheel unequalized Diesel trucks.  None.

I knowthis one is on page one, but here it is again:

 

 

The front unit is nickel silver with my trucks; the B unit is silicon bronze with CLW fully sprung trucks.  I will never make a living as a pattern maker, but my trucks make me happy.

Note that I did not have the brake cylinders soldered on at the time.  It is now powered, with brake cylinders, and springs in those cavities, and even the MTH stainless grillework is back on.  That was a job, since all the slots got filled with metal.

Bob 2 I agree, a 2 rail PA doesn't need equalized trucks. The springs are usually too stiff to make a difference anyway.