Thinking about getting 3rd rail super hudson and thoughts on brass engines?

I have one, and it is beautiful. You better have 072 or LARGER curves, however! I don't know why you think it would break, unless you manhandle or throw your locomotives around. I have 19 Sunset/3rd Rail models, and operate them all (I'm NOT a 'collector').

If you are not sure about your abilities to repair these I'd suggest buying from a dealer who will back the engine. I have purchased 4 used 3rd Rail engines and  all 4 required work to get it right. One was the Super Hudson and while the only problem I found was a misplaced speed sensor it required disassembling the engine to get to the motor. Others did have parts that had fallen off and required paint stripping, resoldering, and repainting. Not saying you won't get lucky but be aware these have a higher failure rate then your typical die cast engine. My single engine purchased directly from 3 rd Rail worked fine out of the box. Think of a Ferrari. Its a fine machine when running right but can be pretty finicky.

Pete

Well, just my opinion, but anybody that says that Sunset/3rd Rail engines don't run smoothly is full of s%^&! As I stated I have 19 or 20 Sunset/3rd Rail steam locomotives and run the blazes out of them. With the Sunset/3rd Rail cog belt drive design, you can't believe how smooth AND quite they run. But then, I use TMCC and/or Legacy to operate all my TMCC equipped Sunset/3rd Rail models, so they all run smooth AND slow.

Hello guys and gals......

I have a Sunset 3rd Texan locomotive and put about 15 hours of run time and it is one smoooooth engine.  You just have to be careful picking up the engine from the bottom not the boiler.  It is my favorite engine. I hope they make S.F. Brass waycar for it

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,623

Tiffany

Jack, there are exceptions. I have a Dreyfuss Hudson with the drivers out of quarter on the workbench now.  Needless  to say its not a smooth runner........yet. I am no stranger to brass with about 125 HO steam engines so repairing them is not a problem but for someone without that experience it could be.

Pete

Can someone (Pete?) post a photo or two of the 3rd Rail Super Hudson please?

Sam, Here is a pic from the 3rd Rail website. Its basically a J3a Hudson with Selkirk front and PT tender. Without a doubt the nicest Hudson in the collection and has been a smooth runner since adjusting the speed sensor.

Pete

I have one; I have been critical of 3rd Rail locos over the years - from hands-on experience. I am a sucker for NYC 4-6-4's, and I ordered it anyway. 

The owner's report:

Gorgeous; smooth runner, if you can stomach EOB (passable on a road loco); RS4 are RS4;

smoke is OK; delicately made, construction even cheesy in spots; the tender lettering is

wrong - not horrible, but...wrong; Electrocoupler could not swing, derailing any car be-

hind it (I have an 0-72 layout, with several scale Hudsons) and the drawbar would

hang up on most curves, condemning the loco to straight track...I Moto-Tooled both

problems into submission (you can't see the work).

I am experienced with 3rd Rail's lapses, and was not surprised by the problems. (Oh,

the valve gear lubricator linkage fell off by itself; easy fix.) Universal issues? Dunno;

but what I experienced - new, out of the box - really happened.

Should you buy it? Heck, yeah! Yours may not have these issues, and if you aren't

afraid of fiddling, you can handle them. If these - or other - problems are there, think

how proud you will be when you get them all worked out. 

Oh - it seems to have 4 chuffs (2 or more satisfy me).

I don't use smoke, since it messes up the weathering.

Concerning the chuff rate, there is a slide switch for selecting "2-Chuff" or "4-Chuff".

If you know how to use the search function here on the OGR Forum, you might try searching for the photos I posted on the 3RS Forum, way back last year (if they are still there).

I only have 3 of their engines.  My 2-10-2 ran like a turpentined cat for a long time, and has just developed a short, which I am trying to find.  My 4-8-2 required tweaking as delivered, but is now running.  The 4-8-4 had a problem with the engine truck wanting to lift the leading wheel on one side.  Repairs are not usually difficult, and the engines can perform very well after adjustments.  They test each one, and the 2-10-2 is an example of their good faith, as it ran and ran and ran.  I don't think the short has anything to do with their design or quality control.

I have only one 3rd Rail engine - the recent ATSF Northern 2929 4-8-4.  It is an incredibly detailed model, by far the best 1:48  model loco I have, although I will say that the MTh European series 241.A comes pretty close in glamour. 

It is a very delicate model and I had problems from the get-go: the loco came with white cloth gloves to put on to handle it and a loose thread loop sewn on the gloves snagged a small fitting and bent it.  I put it back in place and touched up the paint and none the worse.  Still, every time I have to handle it I feel a bit worried.

3rd Rail engines have TMCC boards.  I run only conventional.  Mine did not run that well in conventional - my experience is big TMCC locos don't run nearly as well in conventional as recent Legacy locos, and eventually I bought a display case and took the thing to work where it sits and impresses coworkers and guest alike: it is one incredibly fine model.  Unless you are going to run it with TMCC control, I would not recommend buying it - in conventional it just did not run that well.  I TMCC, I think it does fine. But it is the most delicate loco I own - just the nature of brass locos, but nothing you can't handle with care

Thought I'd chime in since I just bought one of these (#5453) and came across this thread while Google'ing the model.

To begin, it's an absolutely beautiful model with a wealth of detail that outshines any die-cast steamer in my fleet. However it is still not without its inaccuracies to the fine modeler.

• The biggest one concerns the tender lettering. Apparently 3rd Rail's builder forgot to change the lettering over to the appropriate late NYC font and instead left it as the streamlined tender font from their previous streamlined NYC Hudson models. It's definitely wrong but not enough to deter me from the model personally. I am still contemplating procedures to safely remove the lettering and apply the correct decals.
• The model of #5447 has a mistake with the number "7". For reasons unknown the 7 is the incorrect early NYC font while the rest of the numbers are the correct late NYC font. The models of #5451 and #5453 do not have any mistakes in the numbers.
• The lubricator linkage assembly is backwards. I chose to correct this by unhooking the bottom end of the linkage from the rod, swinging the knee the other way, and gently snapping the bottom end back onto the rod.
• The driver rims and some of the valve gear are plated shiny when they really should be black.

These couple of inaccuracies are fixable with care and experience. Overall 3rd Rail's J3a is second only to the Kohs' model, which would set you back about 4 or 5 times more than the 3rd Rail model's MSRP 

My model also illustrates the need to be able to tinker and repair when it comes to brass models. The previous owner sent me photos of the model in pristine cosmetic condition on his layout. However the package arrived with a dreadful sticker on it saying the package was opened in transit and the contents possibly damaged. Sure enough when I opened it up it was apparent someone at the Post Office had pulled the model out and badly mishandled it. Several piping accents on the boiler were broken, the pilot was completely loose and sagging, and the rear sprung tender wheel assembly was completely apart and covered in hot glue. I got out the JB Weld for the broken piping, a very fine paint brush with PollyScale "Engine Black" to fill in any paint imperfections, and a tiny screwdriver bent at an angle to allow access to the pilot screws to tighten them. After a few hours of careful repair I was able to fix all the damage in an undetectable fashion. Now I am just waiting for the replacement parts from 3rd Rail to repair the rear sprung tender wheel assembly. This is why the rear of the tender is sagging in my original photo.

Finally, how does this model run? Well, due to that tender wheel still being damaged, I could only run it very slowly on my straightaway. The TMCC w/ EOB Cruise under LEGACY control ran the engine very smoothly at crawling speeds and the 4 chuffs sounded very nice. Smoke output is rather weak but 3rd Rail actually recommends leaving the unit off anyway to keep the model pristine. I have yet to see how it will run around my O72 curves but I suspect I may also run into the rear tender coupler issue D500 reported. There is cast and piping detail around it that prohibits it from swinging very much if at all. It was also reported that the blind tender wheels can get hung up on very large radius curves. The solution to this is switching the flanged tender wheel from the 5th position to the 4th position.

All in all, if you love NYC Hudsons like I do then this model is simply a must-have. You just need to be prepared for the inherent issues that can come up with the finicky nature of brass models. I like Norton's Ferrari analogy in this instance. More photos and video of my model to come when I get that tender wheel assembly back in working order.

Here is a link to a post I did this week.  The Lionel K4, K-line B6, and Weaver C1 are diecast.  The rest are brass.  Older brass 90's vintage with out-of-date electronics usually can be purchased for less than 1/2 the price of new.  The detail is amazing IMO.
Pennsy steamers. Most are Weaver and Sunset 3rd Rail Brass.

Pennsy Models available, my collection, from a discussion of the number boards this week.
Sunset Thirdrail E6 (Keystone)

Weaver L1s (Round)

Weaver G5 (Keystone)

Lionel K4 (Keystone)

Weaver H10 closest to the TT  (Keystone)

Sunset Thirdrail decapod. Right in picture (Round)

Weaver M1a (Keystone)

K-Line B6 and Weaver C1 both with (Black round circles). ??? Dark Blue???

Weaver A5 (Round)

The only Hudson I have is a Weaver Canadian Pacific.  Some of these models had additional weight added to the front smoke box area to change weight distribution.  The Hudson design also has a huge cab swing that doesn't work well on my maximum O-54 curve layout.  Note the two different tender options, either coal or oil. 



Even though it is smaller than my Weaver M1a it doesn't negotiate the layout as well.

I just purchased one of these a couple of weeks ago. I love it!

The only issue that I had with it was the tender kept derailing on an 0-120 curve. I was able to fix this by rearranging the blind and flanged wheels.

I have only test ran it back and forth on a stretch of straights and curves. It ran much better under TMCC than it did conventionally. It seemed a little stiff and jerky at times but I attribute that to both dirty track and that it needs to be lubed and greased.