Thinking of going 100% conventional

I have never had a single issue with command control...
When I turn the big lever, it goes

I've never left 100% conventional...

All I have ever been i$ conventional. I put $o much into car$ and layout I don't think I could afford to $pend much more.

That would be like going back to crank up/down car windows

Man, I NEVER thought I'd say it, but I can't ever see going back to conventional.  Of course, I haven't had any issues with my engines either.  Of the 12 engines I have:

WBB E7 without any electronics at all (waiting to install ERR)

Railking NW2 bought with PS2 already installed

Atlas GP9 with PS2 from a donor engine (RK F3) installed by me

Railking RS3 with ERR installed by me

3rd Rail E7 with TMCC already installed

Lionel GP9 with Legacy already installed

Railking Imperial 0-6-0 bought with PS2 already installed

Railking 2-8-0 with PS2 kit installed by me

Weaver 4-6-0 with PS2 kit installed by me

Williams brass 2-8-2 with PS2 kit installed by me

Williams brass 4-6-2 with PS2 kit installed by me

Williams brass 4-8-4 with PS2 kit installed by me

So only 33% of my engines have electronics factory installed, I'm just a hack when it comes to electronics anymore (and I used to work in electronics on Navy ships!!!) but maybe I ought to start patting myself on the back a bit more

I've had all of them apart and the Legacy GP9 proved that you really can packed 10 lbs of $#!+ in a 5 lb engine   I was really surprised it ran after I had taken the shell off to paint it.

Now if ALL my engines died at once, I'd probably go to battery powered RC (no power to the tracks) unless MTH can make a way to use PS2 via battery power, that would be cool.

Personal decision here. For me, to many exciting features with Legacy to ever consider just conventional operations.

But I do respect your decision.

I can certainly understand your frustration, particularly because you didn't feel supported by those who sold you the trains.

Fwiw, I've found that reputable dealers, when you have an issue, bend over backwards to help you. I'm lucky to have some good local guys, and I've also forged a cool relationship with out-of-state, "not too big" honest dealers.

i have a wall of conventional, and I run those when I feel nostalgic. 

I just can't get away from the slow-speed running, scale fidelity, and awesome sounds of the modern trains.

I've had a couple of problems, but the problems with the trains were taken care of quickly and professionally.

chipset:

I have found that working with one reliable dealer has eliminated for me all of the issues you have reported. And yes, they are a Forum sponsor and highly reputable.

A few years ago when I returned to model railroading, the thing that sucked me in was command control.  I have pretty much eliminated all my conventional stuff at this point.  Even though I have to fix things at times, I can't imagine going back to conventional.

As Passenger Train Collector states, no reason to scoff at your decision, everyone enjoys the hobby in their own way.

I feel your pain and can totally understand it.  But I'm like John in that command control is the reason I got back into 3-rail.  Without it I wouldn't stay.

Art

Legacy keeps me busy and interested. Stuff broken right out of the box helps too

I run TMCC in Conv. mode.  Power of the remote without the issues of all the "super" electronics in the engines.

That said, I think Lionel is doing it right with the Lion Chief plus.

Many people have smaller layouts, and that hits the perfect sweet spot!

At this point I have to agree.

you always have that MTH remote that plugs into the back of the Z4K for remote operations in conventional.

Please clarify "pulling stunts". 

     Hoppy

I like to run both. In the past several weeks, I have run more conventional. I started purchasing some Williams engines to run at shows. They are very smooth and can pull a ton. I have a small postwar layout that I run these on. I understand your frustration with defective new products. Can you elaborate without naming names on the stunts you encountered?

Thanks,

Bob

Before I retired I worked in a high pressure highly technical field. I am 100% conventional and will stay that way. It's fun watching other fancy command stuff.....but I want my relaxing hobby to stay SIMPLE. Just the way JLC intended.  

100% conventional here, and no plans to change.  I just roll my eyes when someone tries to preach to me about all the wonderful things I'm "missing."  I'm not "missing" anything.

The trick is to buy allot of Kline engines with cruise control electronics...

That will keep you from going command control again!

But seriously, love the Legacy, never looking back...

While I've had a problem with 3 PS3 engines, the customer service @ MTH took care of the problems & they now run fine. I love the DCS system & therfore have sold all of my Lionel TMCC engines, except for one.

Wow! Can't blame you for being upset. That is ridiculous.

Bob

I don't know what dealers you are buying from, but I would not continue buying from them...command control or otherwise.  I would think Lionel and MTH would be interested to hear from you about these issues.

Jeff Davis

I dabbled with TMCC in the early days and mildly enjoyed it. Since then I have gone all conventional, all the time. 

Control systems versus conventional? As the pages of this forum often illustrate, there is no right or wrong answer.

My sugestion is run your trains using the method that makes you happy and brings you satisfaction.

For me that's flipping the handles of the ZW!

I have had issues with command control frying my lighted caboose truck assembly but never any really bad issues except for not being able to properly load an engine into the DCS handheld unit. The loading issue was my fault as I had two PS-2 engines on the track at the same time so both engines ended up as the first one I wanted to load and ran together when only the first was activated on the remote control unit.

As far as Chipset says I never had any problems with a Williams engine until I bought one from an auction site the other day. The center rail rollers don't have proper tension or move from side to side on a curve section. 

Thinking about adding a secondary power supply, along with the first, to the engine and see what happens. Also going to try a bridge rectifier with it to keep it in one direction permanently.

Lee Fritz

While I'd rather buy from a OGR sponsor, my 'local hobby shop (2.5 hours away) a fellow OGR member.....I have a number of locomotives and many train cars from ebay. I have personal rules I follow as far as who I buy from and what I will pay. But if I didn't buy from ebay I'd not have my Shay or Big Boy....both REAL deals from good sellers on ebay. (that includes some OGR sponsors....won a NICE Weaver set of freight cars from TRAINZ this week)

NOOOO!!!! I haven't set up my DCS yet. Don't give up hope!!!

I disagree. I buy what most of you get rid of to get a new one. ALL of my trains are second hand, not ONE PRE-ORDER. I usually look for "safety nets" before buying it or I won't buy it.

Agreed.......I KNOW I got a DEAL on my Lionel first issue Big Boy because someone wanted to upgrade. The first issue BB suits my needs PERFECT. And the loco was too......looks like never run! My last pre-order was when MTH was still offering conventional locos!!!

I didn't know that you could still buy a car with crank windows!

Over the summer, we bought our daughter a new 2014 Chevy Sonic for college, as we wanted her to drive something that was both safe and dependable.

Car has:

• 10 airbags
• 6-sp automatic transmission
• power door lock
• manual windows

I would not have thought that manual windows were still around, but I did do my browsing on the internet of all the major Chevy dealers within a 100 mile radius and then got quotes on the least expensive cars on the lot!

Jim

I'm conventional, and conservative.  I'm not sure if I'm conventional because I'm conservative, or if I'm conservative because I'm conventional.  Anyway, I like to run LionChief Plus, so I guess I'm not 100% either way.   

chipset;

I am very wary of buying from auction sites.

I would definitely not buy from anyone not advertising they are an authorized dealer.

If your problems are from such a dealer, Forward all emails wit the problem to Lionel or MTH as appropriate.  Those are unacceptable issues, also contact ebay if they are the site, they will help you.

I have no problem with Lionel or 'stunts' pulled by anyone. I buy about 60% Lionel and love it (and MTH, and . . . well, you understanding).

But I run only conventional, including all my Legacy, Vision, and Premier and Railking locos, too.   Simple, hassle free.  

Guys,

I still have the five finger lift system! My arthuritis hasn't gotten that bad yet!!!!

Mike Maurice

I buy lots of used stuff.  If it doesn't work, I fix it.  I've generally had good luck with my used purchases.

You make that claim now chipset, but you know you'll be back to electronics soon.  We've all had those slumps, sorry for your misfortunes.

Stack

I got a K-Line Big Boy NIB from eBay.  It was my grad gift to myself (Had to have something to look forward too to get through college.).  I think almost all my locomotives came from eBay, and only one was a bad egg, but I did get that resolved to my liking.  As for Lionel dealers, I only had one bad experience, but another dealer picked up the slack and made it right for me.

But back to the OP, I mainly run conventional, and all layouts I build must be able to run conventional, but also command (TMCC/Legacy) too for when I want to have the extended features.

I have bought many items from ebay many times and have never had a problem.

You have to know what your buying, what a fair price is for that item and does the seller have good feed back. Has he been there for awhile. 

I have bought and sold on eBay since 1998 and never had a problem buying or selling.

But I always give the Ogr buy/sell board first dibs on anything I sell or buy. 

The 3 Williams brass steam engines I bought all came from the bay.

All 3 conventional, I disliked the way they ran, seemed to be either on or off, lousy speed control going from a standstill to approx 15mph then wide open with a slight turn of the knob.

With PS2 installed they creep along nicely, the N&W 611 starts moving at 1mph and can C-R-A-W-L at 2mph (42:1 gear ratio in the J) , the slow-speed start up is most pleasing to witness.

From what you said it's not command control per se, it's quality control that's bugging you.  If I buy a new engine and something physically is wrong with it (something that can't be easily fixed like a screw out or light bulb not tight) I'd take it back and demand a refund/replacement.  Why do some modelers feel the need to accept things like this?  Is it because they're afraid to hurt their LHS feelings?  Hold them (manufacturers and dealers) accountable, then maybe these quality control issues will be addressed.

I use a Cab-1/command base and TPC 400 for what I call "walkaround conventional." It's traditional track voltage control but I get to walk around with a wireless throttle. The engines, new and old, work fine - shh, don't tell them.

Go 100% conventional and run Williams Engines only.......sounds great but why stop there:

Throw out the remote control for the TV, get up to change the channels.

Give up my GPS only use a map or ask for directions from a stranger.

Why am I on the internet on a forum, I think I should write the editor of my train magazine.

Chipset....have a beer it can only get better.

JohnB

Are you guys saying I cannot use my computer,  GPS, Cell Phone or Cable TV because I prefer conventionally controlled trains?

Sorry, I just don't get the connection.