This is the part I don't like about repairing trains. UPDATED 8/11, Final chapter 8/12

 Thats a joke.The last time I saw a motor like that it was in a battery operated toy.

Even if replacements were available. They would just burn up again anyway.

That's what pushes newcomers away from O and over to HO.  HO can't even get away with incorrect truck side frames (they'll provide free accurate replacements).

I can’t believe they put those junk motors in that unit...

Is that not something that Lionel would make good on?

Hard to imagine there is not a generic motor that would work. 

That's a depressing story.

Vicious circle.  They have to make the low end stuff inexpensive, so folks will buy it.  You cannot make inexpensive trains with expensive components.  You want good motors, graduate to $300 locomotives.  Even then, most of the 3-rail Diesels I have seen use Chinese windshield wiper motors.  They do last a long time.

But the worst is replacement parts not available

You can buy Mabuchi 385s all day for under 5 bucks. Direct from the factory  can't cost Lionel more than a dollar. The motor in that diesel likely cost them 10 cents. No excuse other than pure greed to produce an engine like that.

Pete

Last time I saw those was in my DC only mpc era 2-4-0.  Isn't there another motor that will drop in?

@jhz563 posted:

Last time I saw those was in my DC only mpc era 2-4-0.  Isn't there another motor that will drop in?

Those motors should be source-able outside of Lionel. If they went that cheap, they're probably not even customized to the application and widely available from Amazon/Ebay or any number of electronics suppliers.

The worm gear is probably press-fitted plastic. If so, it shouldn't even be a major task to transplant them to a replacement. And if on the off chance it's a metal worm, it can probably be pulled off the shaft with some heat and moved onto the new motor without ruining it.

---PCJ

Surprised for a set that retails at $399.99... And of course, it is out of warranty, right?

Agree with everyone else.  Can't believe they put those in an actual engine. 

I never once thought a handcar motor (nor two of them) would be strong enough to pull ANYTHING (aside from maybe a dummy handcar trailer behind it). 

I could see the little motor being strong enough to propel the naked truck around the layout.  Add the frame, shell, and that stack of weights shown, and forget about it. (and by the way, we probably should also account for it pulling at least the rolling stock that came with the set, right?)

Totally unacceptable design.

-Dave

I don't actually have trains with anything but the toy can motors.  Although not all are that tiny. No pitmann sized like I knew from the 70s and expected in at least a couple, my choices went from open frame to crap real fast.  The only saving grace is it should only cost $15-20ea. (I last paid $12 for the size at a pricey brick & mortar about 2014 because it was there. I could have got it for $5-8 online.)

(why do I doubt that price is still low all of a sudden 😒)

When I talk about how MPC did as much harm as good with can motors without rectification for ac, this is a comparable disappointment your experiencing. Now imagine 6ft stacks of returns at Sears and Kmart the first week after Christmas because folks cooked them instantly on their old transformer and track already set up around the trees. (note how many attic collections go from PW, to an mpc car or two, to a cheap cooked 70s-80s DC set then nothing else again)

  The magic smoke lingers about an inch past the sinuses for decades and only smoke pills can help the ill 

The gear is metal. I think many of us could take a better motor, fit the gear to it and make or modify a mounting plate. Time wouldn't come into play. On the other hand for a service station to do it thay have to charge for their time. The bill could easily amount to more the half the price of a new engine.

Pete

Yes, the engine is out of warranty ( by 3 months) Even if it was still in Warranty, doesn't change to availability of the motors. I haven't torn the trucks apart yet to see if the motors can be replaced. My concern is will they burn out again? I'm guessing the motor gets so hot,the brushes fall off the brush holder, second, if better motors can be installed, could be the RCMC handle the current? I'm guessing it probably close to being maxed out with the 2 small motors.

Let us know how it comes out.

@bob2 posted:

Vicious circle.  They have to make the low end stuff inexpensive, so folks will buy it.  You cannot make inexpensive trains with expensive components. 

When did $399.00 become "inexpensive" ??

Lionel will only do this more now that MTH is going bye-bye.  Sad...

Lionel can't go on like this. Sooner or later this will come back to haunt them.

I have heard so many complain about MTH and say Buy Lionel. Last I heard Lionel is not even taking warranty items in for repair. One of my biggest issues has been and always will be promoting the hobby. How are we to do that when big companies charge the prices they do and do not back up their product. Yes MTH may be closing and people are saying "I wouldn't purchase anything from them now". Explain to me what the difference is as far as warranty or service. My heart bleeds for this youngster. I just got done visiting my 6 year old grandson whom I only get to see once maybe twice a year. He has Lionel (from the MPC era) that his Mom Mom and I gave him last year. We set it up while up there and I can honestly say I was so frustrated and disgusted that I now understand why he doesn't play with it. Breaks my heart so much. I love my trains and I love running them. They relax me and I have loads of fun. Even my grandson loves running them when he is hear at Thanksgiving time (we celebrate Christmas then with the family so they can all go to the in-laws at Christmas). Sure hope yo find some way of getting it fixed for them.

Shaking my head wondering what is wrong with the tried and true china drive? Williams used it on their Chuggington and Brewster / Thomas locos which they had a fire sale for $59.99 & they use it on all of their locos, at one time there was a lifetime warranty.

I know it's not the favorite for 2 railers, but it is a bullet proof drive.  And Lionel wouldn't need to add all of those weights because the actual trucks and flywheels would provide enough weight.

Chuck,

Wow what a disappointment they used such crap parts.

Got a Lionel Part number?   When I look up the  The LC ET44AC doesn't show any parts list from what I found.  Looks similar to the Thomas Tank motor.  

Pic of the gearing on the motor?

Jim

@feet posted:

Lionel can't go on like this. Sooner or later this will come back to haunt them.

It's already haunting us.

Wish I had something similar to give him.

Chuck this is awful, and it makes me hopping mad!!  No flywheels?  The worms are probably pressed onto the motor shafts, so upgrading the motors to something better would be a big job.  Exact replacement motors could be fitted if the parts are available.  But they would probably burn out just as quickly.  Lionel should be ashamed of itself for selling such an under-engineered and under-spec'd loco!  It's a marketing failure too, because if someone's first experience is frustration and disappointment, there won't be a second purchase!  

I feel so badly for the young boy...  I'm willing to personally wire you a cash contribution to buy him something better, with real, built-in quality they way they USED to be made!  Maybe you can find out what his favorite railroad is, what radius of curve, which transformer, etc.  Life is too short to drink bad wine.  And thou shalt not suffer a witch to live!

Appears to be the loco from this set:

http://www.lionel.com/products...onchief-set-6-84732/

Edit: I just noticed the locomotive "features": Two powerful maintenance-free motors

Thanks Training Wheels,  

Your set link helped bring up the parts list for this ET44, here is the part:

I looked through my stash of about 70 motors.  These are the closest I see - probably not it as worm pitch looks wrong.  I got close as I could on the caliper to read - not exact.  I don't have any part numbers listed on these motors.

Jim

Once MTH turns out the lights Lionel's bean counters will go crazy reducing expenses.

This is what people have to look forward to once MTH goes out junk! Way to go Lionel! 

I sure feel bad for the youngster. This is one of the reasons I have quit buying anything with a motor. After parts fell out of the box of a brand new lion master big boy, I knew I was done with Lionel and MTH both. I'm on to scenery and rolling stock and am a much happier guy for that.

Wow, a slot car motor.

@bmoran4 posted:

Well, technically, they are maintenance free.  They can't be maintained.  When they die you have to buy a new train, apparently.

Hopefully someday the part (even though it's a cr@ppy part) becomes available so a repair can at least be attempted once.

-Dave

@Ted S posted:

............................I feel so badly for the young boy...  I'm willing to personally wire you a cash contribution to buy him something better, with real, built-in quality they way they USED to be made!  Maybe you can find out what his favorite railroad is, what radius of curve, which transformer, etc.  Life is too short to drink bad wine.  And thou shalt not suffer a witch to live!

While that's a noble and generous gesture, think through how that plays out in the end.  We all chip in a few bucks for this case, then this happens again (and again).  Word gets out from that one family that Chuck went above and beyond to get the kid a new set. 

Eventually there will be multiple customers looking for the same resolution, and so how many replacement sets are going to be funded this way?  Any that are not would be looked at as a "this other customer got resolution, but then I didn't" scenario.  IMO that would bring a new dynamic to the situation that could unfairly reflect negatively on Chuck and his shop.

-Dave

I don't recall seeing whether or not Chuck's shop sold the set originally.  If the set didn't come from his shop, extra kudos to him for trying to help.  

I agree with the post above saying that having people chip in is a fine gesture but a slippery slope.  Also appalled at the low quality of the motor.

Some ideas:  1) Help the mother to write a letter to Lionel about the situation.  Any company that cares about their customers (especially new ones) should be willing to take action even though it's just outside of the warranty period.  It would be really disappointing if Lionel won't help out.  2) Find a reliable used PW or MPC engine, and give it to the mother or sell it at cost.  

Hopefully, this is an opportunity to build a future hobbyist.  

Another thought - if Chuck is a member of LCCA, try contacting them for advice, since they have become very intertwined with Lionel.  Maybe they have some suggestions, or can contact someone at Lionel on the customer's behalf.

A MPC engine won't work. Lionchief has a constant 18 volts on the track. A variable transformer is needed.

Chuck,

Look at motor # 6SP-8060-103 , it may work.

WOW! you guys are the greatest!! Thanks for caring so much. This world need more guys like you! Don't know what to do yet, will figure it out.

@Lionel Parts posted:

Chuck,

Look at motor # 6SP-8060-103 , it may work.

 

The motor may fit but the issue is the gear. Getting the gears off the old motors is bad enough, in this case since the motors are already toast it doesn't matter if they get destroyed. Its mounting that gear on a replacement without damaging it thats the hard part. You can find that motor no problem its the gear that makes it unique. 

BTW that isn't the only engine with that tiny motor. The starter set 0-8-0s and Docksiders have a similar motor and I believe some on the Lionchief versions had that same small motor carried over.

Pete

@Mallard4468 posted:

I don't recall seeing whether or not Chuck's shop sold the set originally.  If the set didn't come from his shop, extra kudos to him for trying to help.  

I agree with the post above saying that having people chip in is a fine gesture but a slippery slope.  Also appalled at the low quality of the motor.

Some ideas:  1) Help the mother to write a letter to Lionel about the situation.  Any company that cares about their customers (especially new ones) should be willing to take action even though it's just outside of the warranty period.  It would be really disappointing if Lionel won't help out.  2) Find a reliable used PW or MPC engine, and give it to the mother or sell it at cost.  

Hopefully, this is an opportunity to build a future hobbyist.  

FWIW, I agree with the above statements.

Once had an inexpensive HO Pacific, and the motor looked to be very similar to what's been shown here. In HO, it's "okay", but O...?  

In any case, I hope it works out.

Mark in Oregon