Track Screw Size

A caveat:  be sure the screw heads don't stick up enough to foul unloading shoes.

Bob, FWIW, Gargraves' website sells #4 screws in various lengths for their track.  I have no personal experience with tubular track.

 

I also don't have any experience using rubber washers as you are contemplating; but, I doubt that using one washer per track section will have a noticeable effect on noise. 

 

 

Bob,

 

I use #4-3/4" cabinet screws, they have double twist threads and take a #1 Philips bit.  Use them on Ross and Gargraves track. thru cork roadbed, into plywood.  They attach easily.  Available in boxes of 100 at your local True Value store for about $5.30.

An assortment of small screws.

Top to bottom

#6 X 1" Drywall screw (Flat head)

#6 X 1/2" Flat head screw

 

#4 X 1" pan head screw

#4 X 1/2" pan head screw

#4 X 1/2" pan head screw black

#4 X 3/4" flat head screw black

#4 X 1/2" flat head screw

#4 X 1/2" flat head screw

 

#2 X 1/2" flat head screw

#2 X 1" pan head (Atlas) track screw

#2 X 1/4" pan head screw

 

For tubular track I usually use #4 panheads just long enough to grip they subsurface. If your using lockons you may need a little longer length on those tracks than on the rest. For the most part the heads on #4 are not going to be an issue in clearance and most times I've been able to find them up to 1" at Ace hardware. After They're in place I go over them with a black sharpy so they don't stand out so much.

Bob,

Here's another choice that will not transfer noise like screwing your track down. Use the small black zip ties. Drill the proper hole then feed your tie down through the hole. On the bottom run another tie up snug against your plywood. I have not used screws since the early sixties because of the noise.

 

God Bless,

"Pappy"

Atlas also sells track screws. http://www.atlaso.com/  

 

6094 Track Screws (48 pcs./bag)

Pappy:  Thanks for the suggestion.  I just found 4" zip ties on the 'Bay for cheap.  I bought 1000 of them which will be mire than enough for what I have planned.  I think this will be a good way to secure my track.  Bob S.

But real trains do make noise.  Don't you want realism?  (even if it keeps the neighbors' kids awake)

#4 seems to be the preferred size. They don't have to be long, just enough to hold the track in place.

I agree with Bruce  #4 cabinet screws!!!

I strongly suggest phillips head.  You can use a power screwdriver, with a light clutch setting, and the driver won't slip off the head.  You may need several lengths.  If not locally available, try boltdepot.com for good prices.

 

I also suggest pan head sheet metal screws rather wood screws.  They bite into the wood without pre-drilling.  But do predrill Gargraves ties or they'll split, with any screw.

use a track spike!!

I have an O27 outer loop.  I used zip ties on the parts that were easy to work with.  I used the screws that hold together a VHS tape for the harder to work with far side.  The screws and heads are perfect for the holes in the O27 rail ties.

Bob,

   You can get all the track screws you need from McMasters-Carr on the Web, delivered right to your front door.  Do a search on the OGR and you will see what I use all the time, I am up at the log cabin right now, so I have no way of giving you the purchase order numbers, in this thread right now.

PCRR/Dave

Do you have your benchwork completed yet?Post some pics.Nick

I think you'll like the electrician's ties you have ordered.  You can even use side cutters to cut off half of the upper head, to make it less obtrusive, as it won't have another tie going through it.

 

I think it's wise to cut off the excess of the lower one, too.  Prevents poking your eye when working underneath.

Since there was no mention of roadbed in the original post, I assume that the track is laying directly on the 3/4 plywood. Rubber washers between the TOP OF THE TIE and the bottom of the screw head will not give the results you seek. The noise you are trying to eliminate is caused by vibrations in the track being transmitted to the wood below it. Without some sort of absorbing roadbed, you actually want to screw down each tie tight to the board. The rubber washer would allow a little vertical play which becomes noise. 

If you were using a sound absorbing roadbed (not the pink or blue foam) then you would want the track to slightly float by using a rubber washer or just backing off the screw about a half turn from contact.

Tight contact direct to 3/4 ply, soft contact for roadbed.

 

3/4 plywood is quieter than 1/2 plywood because it has more mass, which absorbs sound better.

Hi Bob

Track Screws

Click photo to enlarge

I really like that idea Bob. Anything to keep the noise down.

 

Track directly on the plywood will definitely NOT keep the noise down, but real trains make a lot of noise so you'll definitely have that

Bob,
I did pretty much just what you are thinking about on my last layout.

O gauge tubular on johnsons roadbed with # 4 x 3/4 pan head screws and a #10 rubber O ring under the screw-head.

Worked great and helped with the vibrations ..tip don't tighten the screws all the way .. just until the o ring touches the tie .. a little sideway motion with tubes is ok....otherwise you defeat the purpose and transfer the vibration.

 

Hi Bob,

I use #6x 3/4 in long phillips and put them into cardboard and paint them black before I install on Woodland Scenics foam roadbed and add ties to it then add Brennans Ballast .

Mikey

no painting needed with this.  I can power screw them or used a phillips to put then in. I found that the head on #6 is to large so I use #4. Trust me I have a turntable with 40 tracks off of it? 

I had great success with the #6 X 3/4 Phillips Head screws on the 870 feet of track on my layout.

It is unfortunate, the quality of some of the screws is limited at best.  I've stripped the slots out of the Atlas track screws with a drill/driver, which by the way takes a #1 bit.

I was able to grip the damaged screw and remove it with diagonal side cutters.  Be careful using a drill/driver, you can easily damage a piece of Atlas track install on cork.  Too much tork will pull the plastic tie away from the rail breaking the small tabs on either side of the rail. 

The response above is perhaps the best regarding sound vibration.  I think all the suggestions regarding screw size and type are good, especially using pan head screws.  I think it also largely depends on the manufacturer and style of the track you are using.  I used pan head screws of a certain length with Gargraves Track but different size screws with Lionel tubular, depending on either 0 gauge or 027.  The one thing that I really don't agree with is the use of rubber washers which probably do not isolate the vibrations as well as flexible caulk because of the density of the materials in each.  Also, you will have to use more screws if the washer is between the track and plywood just to keep everything level--the washers do not "give" so you will have install more all around the layout.  I also agree with the above poster about using heavier plywood for increased mass ( I even advocate a sheet of dry wall underneath) and the use of some type of roadbed because tracks on plywood will transmit vibration whether they are screwed down or not.  You have to eliminate that as well.  I have used an entire layer of cork over the platform.  In addition under my tubular track, I have placed foam strips in the track ties to permit the track to float somewhat above the platform.  I have also used a flexible foam roadbed which, likewise, does a good job if you want to go in that direction.  While I realize that screws in the plywood will transmit vibration and you want to do everything possible to eliminate that, there are always compromises that have to be made.  I like screws because I know they will hold over the long term.  Because I use cork overlayment, the screws can hold into the cork rather than reach into the plywood but still have sufficient holding power, although not like the wood.  The other thing is to strategically place screws--around curves and maybe just a few in straight sections.  This way while you may get vibration, it may not be as much transmission.  As far as using extruded foam board or Homosote as the base and screwing into that, I would suggest the use of small plastic anchor sleeves that one uses on drywall to place fixtures that attach with screws (you can also easily cut the ends to fit the screw you are using).  The process: Drill a hole into the track tie to fit the screw size that you are using.  Remove the track and drill a larger hole into the foam or Homosote that will fit the plastic anchor.  Squeeze some adhesive into the hole that was drilled in the foam or Homosote that is compatible with the foam and won't cause it to deteriorate.  Place the plastic anchor inside flush with the top.  Replace the track and insert the screw with a small dab of flexible caulk under the screw head.  As you screw down the track, the screw will cause the anchor to expand gripping the sides of the hole.  Once the glue dries, you will have a tighter bond.  You can also remove the screw later on.  The use of plastic ties as described above is a good one provided that you can consistently pull the ties through the hole in the platform and twist them or affix them tightly enough to avoid any slight movement later on.  Sometimes these things stretch over time and you can have the track rising up in spots where the tie has become loose.  Now, that might not be a great problem at all; but if you want absolute stability, screws are the way to go, in my opinion.

I remain truly in awe of the wealth of knowledge and experience disseminated here on the forum.  I had an idea about using screws and rubber washers to fasten down my tubular track.  Not only did I receive my answer, I also received a multitude of ideas, suggestions, direct experiences, and alternatives to my original idea.  Thanks to all.  I have a new plan and will be using cable ties to fasten down the track.  Vibration transmission, was one of my original concerns but now I think I will be able to keep it to a minimum.  The benchwork will have 3/4" plywood to top it off, and I have 12 x 12 self stick carpet tiles that will go down on top of the plywood.  It should help to cut down on vibration and noise transmission from the track to the wood.  

 

Thanks once again to all who have taken their time to offer suggestions to me.  It always proves valuable, and is likewise always a learning experience.  Bob S.

This forum is amazing.  How a simple question on track screws can lead to a lengthy discussion.

Hey, it only took 8 weeks.