Trick or Treat Layout - build thread (4'x7')

I think you are stuck with the water marks. Just use white glue to attach the shrubs and such. The wet water and thinned glue is more for ballast or making piles of material.

No one will comment.

scolba posted:

It does sort of stand out, doesn't it? I sure wish I was in a position to replace it with gargraves and do ballast. Unfortunately this track will likely have to be reused for Christmas, so I don't want to do something permanent with it. But in terms of ground cover, do you think just coarse turf built up would be ok to make the seem disappear? I have a lot of burnt color (yellowish), and some bush and underbrush left. I was just worried about overdoing it. I really didn't want to do that.

My $.02.  Gargraves is great track but it does not lend itself to a temporary layout like RealTrax or FasTrack.  I built my Christmas layout last year with Gargraves and while it looked good, was quieter than the previous FasTrack layout, it was not as trouble free.  Overdoing it on a temporary layout is always something I worry about because I've done it.  

IMHO this is a near perfect temporary display that will be enjoyed by all that see it.  The trade off is it is not prototypical. Making sure the track seems are as tight as possible and maybe sprinkling a bit of ground cover around the edges of the track will dress it up a bit.  If you intend to use the track for a Christmas or winter scene in the future, you can even weather it as fall and winter are different.  

The cardinal rule for temporary layouts:  KISS - Keep It Simple Sam...

Tony

scolba posted:

It does sort of stand out, doesn't it? I sure wish I was in a position to replace it with gargraves and do ballast. Unfortunately this track will likely have to be reused for Christmas, so I don't want to do something permanent with it. But in terms of ground cover, do you think just coarse turf built up would be ok to make the seem disappear? I have a lot of burnt color (yellowish), and some bush and underbrush left. I was just worried about overdoing it. I really didn't want to do that.

although it does stand out, I think what you did looks great.  I would not worry about it.  It is a train layout after all - the tracks need to be there   Great work!

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the perspectives!! Ultimately I have decided to not worry about it standing out. Taking a step back, and looking at it in person, it doesn't pop quite as much as in photos. Also, it will be dark, and bathed in red or purple light. AND I can't do it all perfectly the first time around! Lol, gotta save something for next time!

Put the train on the tracks tonight to see how it looked and to double check the clearances at the fence. It was then that I realized I made terrible planning faux pas. I forgot to plan a spot for the IR receiver lock on!! *facepalm*  I think I have an open spot near the back that SHOULD fit a wired lock on.  So I'll attempt to make an adapter between the IR receiver posts and wires.   Oh well, love and learn!

Also, looks like I am stuck with the water lines.  But as with the track thing, it won't be that noticeable.

More pics for the evening. Nothing major, it's just fun taking pics of it. Lol. Added another car with bones, though!

Are you going to run it with the remote?  I would put it on the straight on the end behind the cemetery. I imagined it just running. Don't forget to at least oil the engine. Turn off the smoke unit. It looks good!

Did you run out of tree arbors or time?

Yeah, the IR remote was the plan.  Unfortunately, I'm a newb yet, so haven't acquired a ton of stuff, a standard transformer being part of that.  So I will have to use the IR remote for control for now.  Sadly its just the basic one, not even the DCS one...so learning a lot of lessons quickly. 

So I already have a knock out, circled in red here:

I really really really don't want to pull up the track to knock out another piece, or solder wires straight to the tabs. I think the standard wired lock on will fit there (compared to the IR receiver).  It looks like ill be able solder a couple of wires to the bottom of the IR receiver lock on and run them through the foam from underneath to the wired lock on then.  Or at least I hope. 

Good call on the oil!  I'll pick that up with the lock on today from the LHS!

I ran out of trees...and time to order more, too...so both!  haha.  I really thought 40 would fill out the layout....and there might be too many!  lol, guess not.  They just plain ol disappeared! 

Oh, I get it now - you need track power feeds. Get a small plastic jack 0'lantern to sit on the lock-on bulb. maybe from a small flashlight trinket.

I am not into the RealTrax lock-ons. I solder the feeds. But, they work.

So, you have the 50-1011? That's ok. We have one for the layout that we are restoring. I haven't tried it yet. If you get an interested visitor, they can figure out the remote. perhaps plant the train nut seed in one trick or treater.

You should use a 40-1068-2 ground track somewhere in the RealTrax setups or perhaps a couple of them. Makes both outside rails common. Not now, I hear ya, but next time.

I use the plastic black ground cover material for skirts. Weed block. It would save painting time and hide the under the layout. Also, it directs the eye to the layout. Just fold some pleats in it.

Moonman posted:

Oh, I get it now - you need track power feeds. Get a small plastic jack 0'lantern to sit on the lock-on bulb. maybe from a small flashlight trinket.

Brilliant!  I love that idea!  Good call!!

Moonman posted:

So, you have the 50-1011? That's ok. We have one for the layout that we are restoring. I haven't tried it yet. If you get an interested visitor, they can figure out the remote. perhaps plant the train nut seed in one trick or treater.

Yeah.  Honestly I'm not really a fan.  Its not terribly responsive. If I had it to do all over again (from like 2 months ago...lol) I would have purchased at least a Proto 2 engine instead of the Lionel I have now, and gotten the DCS controller or a wired one. 

Moonman posted:

You should use a 40-1068-2 ground track somewhere in the RealTrax setups or perhaps a couple of them. Makes both outside rails common. Not now, I hear ya, but next time.

Can you educate me a little bit on this?  What will that do for a setup?  

Moonman posted:

I use the plastic black ground cover material for skirts. Weed block. It would save painting time and hide the under the layout. Also, it directs the eye to the layout. Just fold some pleats in it.

Man I am intimately familiar with that stuff.  I built a ceiling out of landscape fabric a long time ago to give a large open room a "night sky" feel.  lol.  We actually have a black table cloth that we are going to use (plastic I think) for that very reason!  the stereo and speakers are going to hide under there for the sounds. 

scolba posted:

Moonman posted:You should use a 40-1068-2 ground track somewhere in the RealTrax setups or perhaps a couple of them. Makes both outside rails common. Not now, I hear ya, but next time.

Can you educate me a little bit on this?  What will that do for a setup?  

It will contact both outside rails to provide two commons.(black or neutral wire from the transformer) This improves the engine performance by having all non-traction tire wheels in contact with a rail.

If you look at the lock-on, there is only one contact for an outside rail and one for the center rail. Another lock-on at a second location on the opposite side of the first would do the same thing.

Many say that they have no issues with only one common rail. I have a better experience using both.

Ah nice!  So for the future, would I be able to just solder a jumper wire across the contacts of a couple of the track sections, rather than replacing with that special track?  Or is there something additional in the design of that track (passive components, etc)?

Looks fantastic! 

Thanks Bill!

Got the wiring sorted today. A standard lock on did indeed fit well. So I slid some wires through the foam just below the lock on and wired it up!

This is my precarious and inadvisable soldering placement for the work.    Normally I like to work at a bench, but you gotta do what you gotta do!

I chose to solder to the backside of the lock on as it contacts a sprung tab on the rail, so will flex with any bumps left behind when I de-solder later.

All done and dressed up for the ball.

Aaand.....it lives!!!!!

Also, its loud! Yowza! Lol. I am having a little trouble getting it to run one speed when it's slow. I don't know if that's the track, or what? So it might have to be a bit faster than I'd like.  Also, should I be seeing sparks from the engine and tenders wheels? That seems weird. 

And finally painted the perimeter.

Next will be rigging the rgb led light for spooky lighting.

scolba posted:

Ah nice!  So for the future, would I be able to just solder a jumper wire across the contacts of a couple of the track sections, rather than replacing with that special track?  Or is there something additional in the design of that track (passive components, etc)?

yes, we soldered jumpers across the tabs at the ends. it takes an extra set of hands when using a tightly trimmed piece of wire. I didn't know about the ground track or I would have purchased the  40-1068-2. The RealTrax is inexpensive relative to other track.

scolba posted: 

Also, its loud! Yowza! Lol. I am having a little trouble getting it to run one speed when it's slow. I don't know if that's the track, or what? So it might have to be a bit faster than I'd like.  Also, should I be seeing sparks from the engine and tenders wheels? That seems weird. 

So, now you know that insulation board is not sound deadening material. The hollow roadbed also creates a noise chamber. The low speed issues can be a low amperage transformer, the lack of the second common rail, a funky track joint or dirty track/wheels.

Perhaps the remote internal board is responding differently to the power not flowing through the designed input.

I see the trouble spot in the video - it's the last curve and the first straight opposite the lock-on. A second power feed would overcome that. I know it's too late in the game. You'll get a small amount of wheel binding with steamers in the small curves.

What's the amp rating of the transformer?

Did you lube the new engine? Hit the side rods and axles. Do the gear grease after Halloween.

This is mostly for future use.

The project turned out well. A nice treat for the visitors!  Thanks for the video.

scolba posted:

 

 

Also, its loud! Yowza! Lol. I am having a little trouble getting it to run one speed when it's slow. I don't know if that's the track, or what? So it might have to be a bit faster than I'd like.  Also, should I be seeing sparks from the engine and tenders wheels? That seems weird.  

 

 

LOL, yup, the main complaint about RealTrax and FasTrack: it's loud!  That is why I tried my hand at Gargraves on my Christmas layout last year.  It was way more work but it kept the noise down quite a bit.  There have been quite a number of threads here on how to deaden the sound but the bottom line is, the hollow plastic construction amplifies the sound.

Now power is where I can help!  :-)  Sparks typically indicate something needs to be cleaned, either the engine and tender wheels or the track itself or even both.  I would use some sort of plastic friendly, grease cutting solvent for the track.  For engine wheels (without traction tires) and tender wheels, ethyl alcohol and a cotton swab.  It also wouldn't hurt to be sure the pickup rollers are lubed.  You can also use a fine to medium scotchbrite pad to assist cleaning the track.  Even new track has residue on it.

Carl hit the nail on the head regarding the speed differences.  My rule of thumb is a power feed approximately every 4' of track.  I didn't take the time to do the math on your layout but that would be either 2 or 3 power feeds.  I know you don't want to hear that now that you are done but it works.  That also explains why directly opposite your Lockon is where the slowdown occurs, that is where the power has to go through the most track section joints to get to your engine.  Lockons are also fine but I prefer just to solder wire to the bottom of the track and punch a hole through the foam.  I also typically use 16 gauge wire for each power feed but you could probably get away with 18 gauge considering the size of your engine and it's limited consist.  As far as wire size, there are a ton of threads regarding that here too.  Most folks like 14 gauge wire.  Personally I feel that is overkill especially if you are feeding power to track every 4' or so.  

Tony

So I actually have another knockout right in that vicinity of the slowdown.   You can sorta see it circled.

I didn't notice it before now  (I'm apparently QUITE observant )...and probably wouldn't have used it as its close to the front of the layout and the big IR lockon wouldn't have fit anyway.  But the light on the lockon isn't nearly as offensive as I thought it would be (still trying to source a pumpkin or skull or something to replace the light), so I probably could pickup another one, and wire it up there, too.  Just a parallel connection, right?  The easiest setup would be to run straight to the other lockon and twist the wires coming out of there.  Is that legal, or does it have to go back to the IR unit on its own segment?

So the transformer (brick) is 3.75A.  Its a Z750.  I got lube yesterday, but I didn't hit it.  Lol, I was too excited to have it running.  I'll do that tonight for sure.  Along with some cleaning of track and wheels! 

Regarding wire size, thanks for the tip on that.  I figured this was going to be pushing it.  Its funny, of the plethora of electronics projects I have done, I have acquired quite the collection of wire.  But I could not locate ANYTHING larger than this hookup wire. Haha, I actually spent more time looking for it than I did actually working on this last night!  Figures....Anyway, after running it for a while, I kept monitoring the temp of the wire to be sure it wasn't getting too hot.  It was still cool to the touch, but I will plan on monitoring it as I run for longer durations.  I'll probably plan rest stops for the night of Halloween anyhow.  And with the trunk or treat thing, I'll be running off of an inverter on my truck, so I will def be running it sparingly so my truck still starts. 

Yeah, def have some rethinking to do for the Christmas layout.  This noisy hollow stuff won't do for inside around the Christmas tree. 

Thanks a million for all the help and compliments guys.  You all are great!! 

The standard lock-on has a big light. That will need some tape or a pumpkin or skull. The IR lock-on for the remote is subdued. Yes, you can just jumper over to the second location. Perhaps you could toss some leftover ground material on the gray lock-on box for show time.

The Z-750 should be ok for that layout.

Everything is too new for major dirt issues. Wipe the rails with a dry cloth and see what the second power feed does for slower operation. It's almost show time!

Hello My friend, I sure like your trick and treat layout it looks so nice and neat. Thanks longbow57ca.

I saw this thread too late to warn you about using foam with RealTrax. I made the same mistake on my first Christmas layout a few years ago thinking it would deaden the noise and found it actually amplifies it. It is light and allowed me to easily move the layout when I needed to, but the noise was unbearable, and this was in an open room and then a garage. For subsequent years I added a layer of white batting and while that helped, RealTrax was still too loud. I had planned to try adding either Woodland Scenics Track-Bed or Hobby Innovations Flexbed, but part of a bedroom became available, so I decided to build a permanent holiday layout to display my wife's Bedford Falls collection all year where I'll be using traditional plywood for the sub-roadbed. I'm going to try adding the foam roadbed directly to the plywood to see if that deadens the noise enough or if I'll need to add a layer of Homasote or other sound-deadening material. I'll also be using 2 different brands of tracks. My bottom level will be Atlas O36 or O45 and the top level will be ScaleTrax O31 and FlexTrack. I'd like to use ScaleTrax throughout, but I don't want all O31 curves. My 3-4 engines will be MTH RailKing, so they should all run on O31, but I'd like to have the slightly larger curves on the bottom level.

I have a other thought on the sparking.  Try running the train in the opposite direction.  In the video, it's running clockwise.  Turn it around so it runs counter clockwise.  Why?  Well if your engine has traction tires and they happen to be on the outside rail that has the power connected to it, your electrical connection would have to come through the other wheels on the engine and tender.  That would explain the sparks from the tender wheels.  The ultimate fix would be to solder the jumpers between the outside rails or use the special tracks that have the jumpers between the outside rails.

Tony

I appreciate the info even though it's late double daz!! You actually helped me sell the boss on switching it up to Atlas track for out Christmas layout. So thank you!!

Thanks Tony! I gave it a shot in the opposite direction tonight and it was the same. However I found that I can't run it the opposite direction. The way the engine swings clips the fence when going that way. Doh! Also I have traction tires on both sides, so its moot anyway. 

But all said and done the additional lock on got wired up and helped the slowdown in that spot. However I think I have a bad connection on the turn before it comes back to the first lock on. I'm getting a BIG slow down there. Since I have decided to jump ship on RealTrax and go to Atlas soon I'm not going to fret too much at this point.  No more sparking, though, so it must have just been dirty from the scenic work.

Set up tonight for a dry run.  We had some family over and a little guy who is into trains, so thought it would be fun. First I got the light setup

We have a full light on one end so you can see the candy well and this on the graveyard end for spookiness.

Daylight action shot on the porch:

Kitty likes the train, too.

So I can choose what color I want on that overhead light. 

Red:

Green:

Blue:

Orange:

Teal, maybe? Lol:

Purple:

Can't quite decide which I like best. Red is a bit dark. Purple is cool, and the green and blue are neat too.

So a couple of things I have learned  today.  I hate...HATE...the fake cobweb stuff.  it doesn't take much to get twisted up in the wheels. I spent a lot of time cutting that out before lubing just to find more in there after running some more. The solution would be to use something tacky to hold it on the cars better, but I didn't want to goo up the few cars I have.

The other thing I learned is that while most of Menards cars seem well built, the $7 flat cars aren't. Lol, earth shattering revelation, right? I know, I know, I shouldn't have expected anything more, but after cleaning out the cob webs on that one 3 of the 4 axles were bent, and the plastic trucks were flexing.  It's usable still, but not great. It was just a bit surprising about the axles. 

Off to Trunk or Treat tomorrow! 

looks great! Fun idea and a nice change of pace from the traditional holiday layouts we've all grown accustom to seeing (and building...a-hem).

scolba posted:

I appreciate the info even though it's late double daz!! You actually helped me sell the boss on switching it up to Atlas track for out Christmas layout. So thank 

Glad to help, I think you'll be happy with the switch. I'm looking forward to the switch on my layout this year as well. When I got back into the hobby I got impatient and both an RTR set with RealTrax. I knew better than to buy a set, but this one included the passenger cars I wanted, etc., so I figured I'd save a little plus not have to ballast. I looked at as being free track based on non-RTR prices, but I also bought some extra track. Still, I figure now is the time to switch before I sink any more money into a track I don't really want to use on a permanent layout.

I like what you're doing for Halloween. I don't have a front porch and the driveway slants a bit, but I could probably do something to level a layout. I might just put together something like what you did in the future using what RealTrax I have. I have a couple of 10' folding tables that would just need some risers. I could build something in sections that would lay on the tables and be hung up when not in use. For something outside, rigid foam covered with carpet padding would probably do the trick and be pretty light. Something to think about to make use of the RealTrax I have.

perhaps the cobwebs and bent axles were causing the slow down.  You know, I can't decide which color lighting I like. Can you set it to change automatically?

It will be interesting to watch the reaction of viewers.

Have fun! It was fun to watch the project. Thanks again for posting.

I have no experience using Atlas track but I can tell you it's the quietest I've heard.  My local dealer made their display with it and it amazes me how quite it is.  I opted for Gargraves on the new Christmas layout I built last year.  I have quite a bit of Lionel with Magna-Traction and that doesn't work on Atlas track.  Of course hind sight being what it is, I don't think it would much matter if the Magna-Traction didn't work on a 5x8 flat layout.  

This project turned out really nice.  Great job!  But now I'm interested in what you have in store for Christmas!

Tony

Thanks guys!! 

It could very well be part of the issue, Carl.  The car wouldn't glide at all after giving it a little shove.  The light does cycle through all of the colors, but it does it a little too quickly and abruptly.  Probably what I get for buying the cheapest one I could find.  lol.  I think I'm leaning towards purple, myself. 

Lol, Tony, now I'm feeling the pressure to....er....perform for Christmas!  haha.  I am going to be starting a thread for some help on that one.  I'm having troubles getting a track shape in my mind. 

Very cool layout! Thanks for all the progress pics as it was enjoyable to see the development of the layout from start to finish.

-Greg

Great write up!

Great way to have some more fun with our hobby!