VJandP - Getting Started

There is unfortunately no answer to "how unyielding is Fastrack".  Even with computer software, different settings in the program will produce different "fit".

A few other points:

The bigger the loop you are trying to connect, the more you will be able to fudge.

Fastrack cannot be pushed together any tighter than its actual length

There is very often a way to make things fit better by using many sections with different lengths of straight between different radii of curves, etc.  This gets inconvenient and expensive!

Vin, thanks for sharing more about your goals.   I essentially agree with LongHair's comments about fudging FasTrack, it depends.  For this size layout, to connect tracks in the real world, it's possible to make the joints fairly tight compared to what SCARM might indicate as one or two instances of +or - 1/8" discrepancies lengthwise.

When making tracks align in SCARM laterally and angularly, I prefer to find combinations that result in near perfect alignment.  Especially when working with different curve diameters in the same plan, trying different combinations of lengths and curve angles eventually results in alignment.

This all translates to SCARM settings as: Settings - Edit - Tolerances: Distance 0.15", Angle ~2.5 degrees

Something I use that speeds up this process is the attached spreadsheet.  Here's a sampling of what it looks like:

As far as your revised plan, I've worked on it a bit to improve the alignment, the biggest changes were substituting O72 RH Switches in place of O60's at the crossover and adding missing 1-3/8" isolation pieces at some of the switches.  The rest is just alignment and clearance related.  Note that in the image below, I've turned on the Show Roadbed feature in SCARM settings.  This makes it more obvious when adjacent tracks are too close or overlapping.  That was the case with the right hand spur in the yard on the right, so I substituted a O60 curve for the O72 just before the bumper.

When working with SCARM, I found it's online help combined with experimentation to be the best ways to learn.

Vin, welcome back to the hobby and this forum.  IT looks like Steve and Long Hair have covered a lot of what you are asking.  I'll look forward to seeing how it turns out.

@SteveH. Another huge thank you for your time and effort.  Now I know the tolerances can be adjusted and that there’s a “show roadbed” option.  Definitely good things to know.  The tweaked plan looks great.  I’m anxious to download it to my laptop and take a closer look.

@Long Hair Thank you for the Fastrack tips    That makes sense that the bigger the layout the more flooding there is. Similar to using tubular track    I can see how this will get inconvenient and expensive quickly! I’m sure there wouldn’t be anything more frustrating than being so close to finishing a section of track and being short a handful of odd pieces.  A sharp hack was my best friend when I laid the tubular track for my other layouts. LOL

Love this forum!

Vin, I too have gotten frustrated running out of track pieces when finalizing a layout.  Since then, I've patiently looked for good deals and ordered more than I think I'll need.  I'll use the extras eventually.

If you're interested, here's a link to my next major layout plan.  Working on it helped me to become very familiar with SCARM and get some great advice here on OGR.

@VJandP posted:

@SteveH. Another huge thank you for your time and effort.  Now I know the tolerances can be adjusted and that there’s a “show roadbed” option.  Definitely good things to know.  The tweaked plan looks great.  I’m anxious to download it to my laptop and take a closer look.

@Long Hair Thank you for the Fastrack tips    That makes sense that the bigger the layout the more flooding there is. Similar to using tubular track    I can see how this will get inconvenient and expensive quickly! I’m sure there wouldn’t be anything more frustrating than being so close to finishing a section of track and being short a handful of odd pieces.  A sharp hack was my best friend when I laid the tubular track for my other layouts. LOL

Love this forum!

If you're w/in driving distance of an LHS, buy some product and make friends with the owner. If you're a good customer, they may let you buy more track and extra fitment pieces than you will need and then let you return what you don't use for a refund or store credit.   

@SteveH posted:

Vin, I too have gotten frustrated running out of track pieces when finalizing a layout.  Since then, I've patiently looked for good deals and ordered more than I think I'll need.  I'll use the extras eventually.

If you're interested, here's a link to my next major layout plan.  Working on it helped me to become very familiar with SCARM and get some great advice here on OGR.

Your plans look great.  I'll definitely be looking for inspiration on the next layout.

I've already scored some decent deals on eBay.  Most recently an estate sale of 120+ pieces of fast track, looked to be mostly 10" straight, a bunch of 30" straight, and a bunch of various misc sized straight pieces.  With shipping, it works out to about $3 on average for a section with the smaller sections being offset by the 30" pieces and a turn out or 2.

I suddenly need more storage . . . 

My only experience with Fastrak is on my Christmas layout.  Some sections don’t quite fit right, but are close enough to work.  I went with GarGraves on the permanent layout, which is tubular.  My track cuts don’t fit any better, no matter how much measuring I did.

@VJandP posted:

Your plans look great.  I'll definitely be looking for inspiration on the next layout.

I've already scored some decent deals on eBay.  Most recently an estate sale of 120+ pieces of fast track, looked to be mostly 10" straight, a bunch of 30" straight, and a bunch of various misc sized straight pieces.  With shipping, it works out to about $3 on average for a section with the smaller sections being offset by the 30" pieces and a turn out or 2.

I suddenly need more storage . . . 

Thanks Vin.  It's was also an exercise in figuring out ways of using every type of FasTrack pieces available all together in the same layout. 

What we all need is a "suggest" feature in software where you highlight two points and the software comes up with ways to connect them.

Sharing an update.   The space in the garage I have is limited and there are some restrictions like the **** pull down ladder above.  The first layout I posted was intended to be a table on casters so it could be pushed out of the way.  Then I thought about doing an L shape around the area where the ladder would drop.

What I've attached here is a potential alternative.  Problem is that it gives me barely 24" to maneuver in front of the workbench.  And the other thing I don't like, with it being so close to the ladder (it would unfold less than 12' ahead of the siding area) a rogue tote could fall off the ladder, which has happened before.

Overall I like the plan but this permanent table layout won't quite fit the bill.

What I did take away from it though is that I'm loosing the outer 072 loop of the first plan to save some space.  Thinking about what I want to do - learning about Lionel Legacy and wiring - I can save the "big engines" for the future layout in the new house.  I don't need to do too much too quickly.   I'll try to keep the outer loop 060 and will drop down to 048 for the inner loop and maybe 036 to incorporate a small yard.

A 12'x8' table on casters so it can be shifted out of the way sounds daunting but right now it's my best option for a decent size and to accommodate the space needed for other activities in the garage.  Still thinking on it.  We'll see what the next track plan looks like and what I want to prioritize and what I want to give up in this "temporary" layout.

Hi Vin- I posted some comments on your electrical thread earlier. Welcome to the Forum and welcome back to the hobby. Lot's to read and plenty of helpful members here so don't be afraid to ask questions.

Bob

I have less space than you, but I gave up on 072 curves when planning as well.  My mainline is 054 and sidings are 042.  I like the second plan better than the one you first posted.  Yes, we all have to work with obstacles.  We have the pool down ladder to the attic in our hallway.  It is a pain to use, and certainly messes with you for layout planning.

O-60 switches have an unusual geometry.  Going from the end with the switch stand, out through the curved side, is the equivalent of one O60 curve plus two 1-3/8" straight sections.  This can be seen in the attached image where a O60 curve plus the two 1-3/8" straights are overlaid on top of an O60 switch with its included stock half roadbed pieces attached.

To use a O60 switch within a basic loop, two 1-3/8" pieces need to be added into the loop symmetrically in 3 locations (shown in orange) for the loop to line up.

The green pieces were changed to make it all fit.  The blue pieces were added to allow independent power control (toggle switches or other) of the individual spurs.

The revised SCARM file is attached.

@SteveH Thank you for tweaking the track plan.   I keep forgetting about the insulating pieces.  In my brain I keep thinking old school and that I’m going to replace the center rail pin with an insulating nylon pin.  :-/

Thank you everyone for your ongoing input!

I’m working on 2 more track plans that I’ll share hopefully this week.   I’m experimenting with plans that have smaller radius curves so I can do more with the inner loop and adding yards and sidings.  Also, I'm playing around with a layout that I remember from a Train Store I frequented as a boy.

So many options

FINALLY !     Between work and holiday activities, haven’t had much time to make any progress. I spent some time in the garage this past weekend building the table -  12’x8’, on casters so it can easily be scooted around.   Immediately became a storage shelf but half of the boxes are things that I purchased for the layout. The rest of it is going to find a home elsewhere in the garage.

I bought some gate handles that I’ll put on the sides to make it easier to grasp when moving.  Plenty of 45° braces at the top of the legs but I’m going to add an extra piece around the bottom above the casters for additional support. Once I drop the sound deadening board on… I’ll be ready for track!

Speaking of track, I still haven’t finalized a plan for the table. But, temporarily I will be putting a couple of loops on just so I can set up a few things and start getting the hang of all this new equipment.

The below 2 pictures are some of my eBay acquisitions and an early Christmas gift to myself… the ZW-L     I’ve had pretty good luck finding a few items that I really wanted on eBay, I’ll share pictures and updates as I set things up.

The two acquisitions I‘m most excited about are 2 Conrail Lionmaster SD80MAC Diesels, #4100 and #4129.   One was still new in the box and the second was lightly used and well taken care of.   Ultimately I want to model 50s and 60s steam and diesel, but I had to have these Conrail locomotives. I grew up watching these blue behemoths pass through Erie, Pennsylvania streets.   Just taking them out of the box put a huge smile on my face. I can’t wait to fire them up, sound the horn, and watch the ditch lights flashing.

This last pic is what started it all. My wife got this Pennsylvania Flyer set for me for our anniversary a couple of months ago. This totally rekindled my flame for the hobby. At one point I told her… I don’t think you realize what you’ve unleashed. I think she does now, sort of… LOL. Wait until we get into the new house and I get my hands on that bonus room.

Thanks for the heads up.   Updated the post. Hopefully the pics show.    I finished the table and will be posting a few more pics.  

I updated and re-added one at a time, saving the post after each upload.  I can see all the pics - again.  Not sure why I see them and they drop off …?  Hopefully they stick this time.  

Updated pic of the table. I added some extra bracing on the legs. Also added some gate handles on each side to make it easy to grab and manipulate. For as big as the table is, it rolls pretty easily on the casters… so much so, I have to make sure I keep the wheels locked or it’ll coast by itself due to the slope of the garage floor.  

You can see I also added the sound deadening board and last but not least, the inaugural loop of track!    I used the wall wart to power up and run the Pennsylvania Flyer around it, and it did fine. I thought it would lose steam, no pun intended, when it got to the far end of the loop but it did fine without having an additional power run connected.  

With some of the discussion I’ve seen about Fastrack, I was expecting lots of echo and vibration and for the sound of the train on the track to be very loud.  I didn’t think it was bad at all.  Granted I’m in a large garage and only had a few cars hooked up…. We’ll see what it sounds like when I get a few more trains going.

One thing I’ve learned already, 072 curves take up space fast! Ultimately, if I was going to be limited to a smaller layout, I would definitely stick with 060 or 048 and lesser diameters.  But for now, this layout is all about catching up and learning. Looking forward to setting up a few more loops and firing up the ZW-L.

I can see the pics in the above post so hopefully they’ll stick this time!

I’m really concerned about the layout collecting dust and dirt.  Shouldn’t be too bad during the winter since we’re not doing a lot of yardwork and mowing the lawn. In a day or two, the cars will have a decent amount of dust buildup on them.  To help prevent this, I have a tarp that will go over the layout when not in use. I use bungee cords on the four corners to hold it down tightly. I’ll have to take everything off the tracks after each one but this will definitely help keep things clean.

Now I have to figure out what I want to do with all the rolling stock. I think I’m going to buy a dedicated cabinet, that’s hopefully a bit airtight, so I can put everything in rather than back in their individual boxes between runs.

The layout looks great!  I like the handles on the side for moving it around the layout.  When I was a teenager, my layout was in our unfinished 1888 basement.  Quite dusty.  I covered the layout with a big sheet of plastic, and that kept it nearly dust free.  I had wondered if I would damage buildings and scenery putting the plastic on and off, but never had an issue.

@VJandP posted:

I’m really concerned about the layout collecting dust and dirt.  Shouldn’t be too bad during the winter since we’re not doing a lot of yardwork and mowing the lawn. In a day or two, the cars will have a decent amount of dust buildup on them.  To help prevent this, I have a tarp that will go over the layout when not in use. I use bungee cords on the four corners to hold it down tightly. I’ll have to take everything off the tracks after each one but this will definitely help keep things clean.

Now I have to figure out what I want to do with all the rolling stock. I think I’m going to buy a dedicated cabinet, that’s hopefully a bit airtight, so I can put everything in rather than back in their individual boxes between runs.

Looking Good.  All pics are now showing.  As far as storage, if you were to make all the lower braces at the same height and add more supports, some shelving down there could be a good place for additional storage, after the wiring for track and accessories is in place.

@SteveH posted:

Looking Good.  All pics are now showing.  As far as storage, if you were to make all the lower braces at the same height and add more supports, some shelving down there could be a good place for additional storage, after the wiring for track and accessories is in place.

That is a great idea!   I could run a couple of extra braces on the center legs and make shelves along one side. A simple curtain, maybe with Velcro, should be enough to keep the dust out so I wouldn’t have to deal with doors.  

Put together a few more loops tonight.   No power yet.  Hoping to fire up the ZW this weekend.    If I get really ambitious, I might try to figure out the CAB1.  

Major milestone tonight. Inaugural operation of the ZW-L and the CAB1!

Programming the engines was straight forward.  I was able to access the features  like the electro couplers and boost/brake.

One of two issues I came across was that the TMCC F7 ran erratically at first.  It would surge ahead at full speed, slow, pause, surge …. Thanks to this forum and some previous reading I had done, I knew to disable the Odyssey speed control and adjust some other settings and it ran perfectly.

The other issue is that the smoke unit on the non-powered SD80MAC isn’t working.   I searched just now and someone else posted a few weeks ago that their SD80MAC wasn’t smoking.   I wonder if this was a common issue.   Looks like I’ll be replacing the smoke unit.  The working smoke unit in the powered engine works great and throws off a ton of smoke.

I’ll play with the engines for awhile and keep exploring the CAB1 for now.  I’d like to rework the track plan and start messing around with power blocks and some other wiring exercises.  

Found an inexpensive, sturdy storage option that required little effort to set up.  

A lateral filing cabinet cost me $60 from Facebook Marketplace.  A few more bucks for rubber liners for the drawers and I have someplace to store much of my rolling stock and engines.  This should keep them dust free, too.  And now everything is easily accessible.  Ideally something that has more shallow drawers and a few extra drawers would have been sweet but I can’t argue when the universe drops an opportunity in front of you  

He had a few of these cabinets and I think I’m going to grab another one since this one is working so well.  

@VJandP posted:

...

Enjoying your progress; here are a couple of thoughts, one of which may be too late...

Depending on how well the temperature and humidity in your space are regulated, the tarp may allow condensation to accumulate on the layout.

IMO, the 2x4 horizontal braces are overkill and create an obstruction; their location will make it very difficult to get under the layout for wiring and storage.  If they're really necessary for stability, I'd move them high enough to allow a person to slide under them. 

Please don't ask how I learned these things. 

@Mallard4468 posted:

Enjoying your progress; here are a couple of thoughts, one of which may be too late...

Depending on how well the temperature and humidity in your space are regulated, the tarp may allow condensation to accumulate on the layout.

IMO, the 2x4 horizontal braces are overkill and create an obstruction; their location will make it very difficult to get under the layout for wiring and storage.  If they're really necessary for stability, I'd move them high enough to allow a person to slide under them.

Please don't ask how I learned these things. 

Thanks for the feedback! Always appreciate input.

The garage is very well insulated and stays a constant 65° - 70° (a little cooler on cold winter days) all year with the help of ceiling fans. Humidity isn’t an issue but I do have a dehumidifier that we turn on when we have family functions in the garage during warmer summer months.

The leg bracing is necessary. The entire table is on casters so it can be easily moved and even with 45° braces, the legs needed little bit more support so they didn’t flex.  This is a temporary layout. I plan to run most of the wiring on top of the table so I can see it and experiment with it. Access underneath isn’t too important, though it will probably be filled up with some storage boxes.

The permanent layout out will also be taller than this to make access that much easier, too.  👍🏼

At first I wasn’t crazy about the CAB1 remote.   It felt weird not physically manipulating transformer handles to control everything.   Punching buttons was awkward.  A week or so later and it feels like 2nd nature.   Switching between engines isn’t bad at all.  I’m really enjoying it and can’t wait to start playing with advanced features like lash-ups and turnout controls.

Spent time on unboxing some rolling stock last night and had a fun run session even though it was just in loops. I need to get back to track planning and figure out how to incorporate a small yard and some other details on this temporary layout.

Remember this is a temporary layout.  It'll probably last a year or two until the new bonus room is built. Once I know the dimensions of the new space I'll start designing but for now I'm learning. 

So far I've built the table, set up simple loops and powered them up.  The loops aren't connected.  I added a CAB1 system and have been learning and experimenting with that.

I finally got around to drafting up a new track plan.  This one has what I'll call a double mainline and a branch line which is also a yard run around.  I can loop 3 trains at once if I want or use the inner most loop for switching operations independently of the main lines.  The outside mainline has a passing siding and a 2 siding "yard" on the mainline where I can park engines.  The inner most loop has another 2 siding engine yard and sidings for rolling stock.    I decided to skip the reversing loop for now and focus on developing the wiring plans - adding blocks, turn out set up and operations, etc....

The only thing I don't like about the plan is how much space the outside passing siding takes.  I need to play with that a bit and see if I can tuck it in at all.  The other option is to skip it and add a little more elbow room to the inner loops and yards.

Any feedback or comments would be appreciated!

A few questions come to mind:

1) Turnout wiring.   I'm assuming that powering the track is literally plug and play and the turnouts will draw their power from the track.  I know there's an option to use a a separate power source for the mechanisms but that's optional, yes?  I read Lionel recommends the optional wiring with SC-2 so the switches are exposed to a constant 18V.  Is this really a long-term issue?

2) If I go with SC-2 for the turnouts, can I still use the remote switches or can I only use TMCC/Legacy command only?

3) The 1 3/8" pieces for the 072 turn outs - what's their function?  Are they for fitment only or am I supposed to use them as "insulated" pieces and yank out the connecting wire underneath? 

4) Final question (for now ) - anything special I should know about using a 22.5 Xing?  I'm thinking I would insulate the the 2 "legs" that are not part of the right of way.

Learned a few things about Fastrack this week.

1) SCARM is a suggestion. I’ve played with the tolerances while designing track plans, used tips from the forum, and have tried multiple combinations to get everything to connect.   Once I hit the table and started snapping track together, I found Fastrack has more wiggle room than I anticipated.   I used way fewer 1.38” and 1.75” pieces than my plans had.  SCARM for me was best used to *estimate* how much real estate curves in particular would take up in a given space.

2) I also found that the Fastrack geometry came together fairly easily. Adding a double crossover between mainlines or incorporating a 22.5 Xing wasn’t difficult.  I used quite a few 4.5” pieces   I always wondered how Lionel came up with the straight lengths they have    They must have an algorithm that calculated what lengths could combine to create the most variations.

3) Laying out the track wasn’t as cumbersome as I thought it would be.   I laid out the pieces and was able to puzzle piece everything together quickly.

A few pics of the progress and my newest engine.  

The track looks great as you have it now!!  Congratulations!

A few more lessons learned with Fastrack, turnouts edition ….

1) Overall, I really like the turnouts   Trains track well on them even in a few places where my table is uneven and the track flexes and twists a bit.  At first I balked at the price but given their performance and the built in command control, I’m happy with them.  It didn’t hurt that I purchased them online for only $86 each. That’s over $30 off of list.  Don’t know offhand what forum rules are in regards to posting about resources, but I’m glad to share if you message me.

2) The command control is sweet!   What awesome built in functionality. Controlling individual switches or an entire route is amazing. I’m having so much fun learning about all of this new-to-me technology and really enjoying it.

A few irks …

3) Those **** lanterns.  Blink and “pop goes the weasel”.  Was a little disappointed at how easily they come off.   I have a very fine paint brush, though a toothpick would work, that I used to dab a bit of Elmer’s glue just inside the lantern.  I figure Elmer’s glue is just strong enough to hold it together but won’t permanently bond it like Gorilla Glue.

4) Technology is love or hate.  Out of 12 switches, 2 seem to have bad control boards.   As always, thanks to this forum, I was able to do some reading about possible fixes. It works fine with the included remote control but I cannot get the two switches to go into program mode when holding the program button down.   On Monday I will have to contact Lionel for warranty replacement and hopefully that will turn around quickly. Ideally it would be great if they authorize me to go to a local shop to swap them but we will see. If anyone has experience with similar situation, let me know!

Some miscellaneous updates…

The passing siding for the outer loop is finished.  At some point in the near future it will be blocked off so I can power down any engines that might be sitting there. Also in this pic, you can see that the crossover between the outer and inner loop is complete.  On the innermost loop, the siding is temporary. I threw it on there because I had a manual 036 switch but eventually that straight section will be a series of turnouts for the inner yard.  You can see 2 10” straight pieces that are disconnected. That’s where the connection between the second and third loops will go.

A close-up of where the connection between the second and third loops will go. There isn’t enough real estate on the table to add an opposing crossover. The switcher will have to move trains between the two loops using only this future connection.

I decided to re-design the crossover from the outer loop to the yard. In one of my above pics you can see the siding wraps around and sits between the 2nd and 3rd loop. It just looks a little awkward.  I moved the turnout and crossing further down to the end of the table.  This way, I can incorporate another crossing over the 3rd loop so the siding will be in the center of the table with the rest of the yard. I think it will look better like that. I want someplace to park a larger engine with an 072 minimum curve requirement and not necessarily leave it on the passing siding.

For this temporary layout, here's what I'm going with for now.  I have much of it completed except the multiple sidings.  I'll have to purchase some additional turn outs and a 2nd 22.5 Xing to finish the loops, but otherwise quite a bit is finished.  In the attached plans there are a few gaps / misalignments that I've taken care of on the layout itself.

This should give me plenty of operating opportunities and it looks to be a good "starter" layout to practice wiring up blocks and eventually creating a control panel.

So far it's been a great experience and fun using the command control.  Coming from all conventional controlled layouts, I was hesitant about the command control system at first, but it’s really great.  I ran 4 engines and managed to keep everything from crashing. 

The Fastrack turnouts seem to be sensitive to uneven areas on the table.  Where they're raised a bit, they loose power.  I'm assuming this might be from a loose pin connection.  Screwing them down has eliminated any issues.  This week, hopefully I can take care of the 2 turnouts with bad control boards (they won't go into program mode) and pick up the last few pieces to complete the outer loops and crossovers.

My first look-see on this thread.  Wow, all this in two months!  Nice job!  Fast learner.

The layout has really come together. This should be a nice test bench to experiment. I like your storage solution. Might I suggest some low plastic trays to stack more cars per drawer?
The track plan should be fun to operate too.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

The layout has really come together. This should be a nice test bench to experiment. I like your storage solution. Might I suggest some low plastic trays to stack more cars per drawer?
The track plan should be fun to operate too.

Bob

Great idea!   I have some inexpensive Walmart totes that I’m storing track in.   Some of the smaller, shallow ones would be perfect to double storage space in each of the deep drawers.