What is your max grade for Subways

Chris-

 

In general, 4-5% is the maximum most O scale trains can handle. Lionel's or MTH's graduated trestle sets would be the maximum grade the cars could handle safely without stalling. However, the steepest grades coming in/out of stations on the "prototype" is about 2%, but there are a few areas where grades exceed 5%.

 

-John

I remember reading somewhere the best bet was to go a quarter inch per foot. So one inch in for foot.

That math doesn't add up Jerry   1/4 inch a foot adds up to one inch in four feet.   We have a section that is 1/2 inch per foot and a four car train makes it up no problem but six car trains struggle.  Don't go by other trains recommendations because the MTH & Lionel subways are much heavier than normal cars.  Their trucks aren't as free rolling as others too. 

@Bluelinec4, Hi, thanks for the help.  1/2" rose to a 1' foot of run puts it at about 4.17% grade.  Hmmm, that will challenging, may need a turnback or something to get more run.

 

Thanks.

 

Chris

@AcelaNYP, thanks.  Ok, will have to mock up an 11 or 12 foot run and see how the trains run on it up and down at different grades before I build it permanently in to the layout.

How many inches is the minimum for clearance for the Subway sets?  perhaps if I can limit the rise it will shorten the run I need to make up to the next level.  For example instead of 6" between levels (requires a 12' run @ 1/2" per foot), perhaps I could go 5.5" or 5" which are prototypical 22' and 20' feet and would only require a 11' or 10' run as described earlier.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

Prototype subway tunnel clearances are very tight. The clearances show up well in Toronto because of the light colored station roofs. 

 

Just make sure it leaves enough room for everything you want to run on the line.  The prototype has cars built to their tunnel dimensions.  We don't have that luxury.

 

EDIT:

 

Here's a diagram from nyc.subway.org showing tunnel dimensions from the Independent Subway. Car dimensions are 60 feet long, 10 feet wide and 12 feet 2 inch car height. Tunnel height is 13 feet 2 inches from the top of the rail to the underside of the tunnel roof.  The article is here.

My El lines have 6.5% grades, and the MTH Rail King LoV and Q trains I run negotiate the grades very well. Each of these trains has a single powered unit. Traction tires are a must have! Speed control is put to the test on these grades and there is some slowing.

 

How many inches is the minimum for clearance for the Subway sets?

 

Lionel's and MTH's subway cars are about 3-3/8" tall (from the top of the rails), so I would recommend at least 3-5/8" minimum clearance to compensate for any track irregularities or at the top/bottom of the grade. Graduated trestle sets top off at anywhere from 4-3/4" (Lionel) to 6" (MTH) tall, which is more than enough for the subways.

 

-JOhn

Here's a diagram from nyc.subway.org showing tunnel dimensions from the Independent Subway. Car dimensions are 60 feet long, 10 feet wide and 12 feet 2 inch car height. Tunnel height is 13 feet 2 inches from the top of the rail to the underside of the tunnel roof.  The article is here.

The R142/R142A cars were built for the IRT Division of the NYC subway, which has more restrictive clearances than the Independent (IND) Division. IRT cars are 51'-4" long versus 60' or 75' on the IND. The IRT tunnels are built to the "Contract 1" part of the diagram from nycsubway.org.

 

-John

 

The tallest cars are the MTh Q cars  I will measure them for you to get the clearance  You can make things very tight

@Bluelinec4,  thanks!  I appreciate all the help and suggestions.  I am excited about getting started on my first subway line.

 

Chris

@AcelaNYP, Yep, the prototype clearances are real tight and I am cool with that, I just don't want to build myself in to a corner if you know what I mean.  That photo is great and the drawings are real helpful.  I think the biggest variances are going to be from the manufacturers Lionel and MTH and trying to be flexible to accomodate the addition of future cars, within reason.

 

Chris

Absolutely - keep in mind neither Lionel or MTH are truly to scale, but I would use the MTH subway cars as a reference as they are taller than Lionel's. I have the Lionel R27 and MTH R17 cars, and the R17s are noticeably taller and boxier.

 

-John

The MTH Premier cars are scale cars   The R62 Railking is scale and the Lionel R27,R30 and R16 are scale.

 

When I get to the club I will measure the Q Cars  This pic shows how tight we went on the R17  There is about 1/4 clearance from the top of the car to the El crossmember

 

 

 

 

 

They're made in-house as part of "Silk City Bridgeworks"

 

---PCJ

       
       

What type is that elevated 2 ?

We make them at the NJ HiRailers  SilkCity bridgeworks is the name of the company  Very different than Jim from Bridgeboss  These are made to order  Email silkcitybridgeworks@yahoo.com

No no im sorry for the confusion i meant in the pictures u posted which product is that type2 ?
Thank you

That is type 1.  We made that to match some that we had bought from another company.  The type 2 is closer to NYC subways structure and is much cheaper than the type 1. 

I use an approximate 3% rise on my personal layout only because I run other heavier Steam Engines besides my Subway sets both Lionel and MTH. I would have to agree that these Subway sets will handle 4-6 % rises rather easily.

See below a few photos of my Elevated graduated and curved sections.

thanks.

jim r

 

 

I try to limit my grades to under 4%.  3.7% or 3.8% is the max.