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I live in southern IN. My parents farm (Dad's now 90) runs along The Southern Railroad. I remember 4501 running by when I was a kid and would go nuts seeing it. And we have a nice trestle in Georgetown, IN. I haven't seen a steam loco pass in a good 35 years. And the only two steamers I remember in Louisville, KY was the Freedom Train just passing through in 1976, and I did get to see the Challenger at Louisville's Osborn Yard quite a long time ago. I remember my friend had a very "expensive" VHS Camcorder. So that should date that one.

Anything coming my way? I wouldn't want to miss it. I'm sure the news would put a "10 second story ended with a yawn". (so sad).

I just thought I'd try here. I'dmmore on the tinplate train forum. My wife actually has never seen a steam locomotive steamed up.

Bill

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Yes, in case you've been living under a rock, Norfolk Southern's 21st Century Steam Program is over, and even 611 excursions could be as well. Now Amtrak is banning most excursions that use Amtrak insurance and crews. That includes steam excursions on class 1 freight railroads. The new CEO is making cuts. NS is also getting anti excursion now. Wick Moorman who was pro excursion and steam is retired from NS and Amtrak. There's not going to be very many mainline excursions this year except maybe for ones that were already committed. UP 844 is still running its yearly excursion from Denver to Cheyenne this July. 630 and 4501 are still running on TVRM and on the 102 mile Summerville excursions. CEO changes can cause the end of steam and excursions if the new CEO feels that excursions are not worth the effort or cost the company money. That's what happened in 1994. New NS CEO David Goode wasn't a fan of the steam program and axed it Dec 1994. Wick Moorman is the only reason steam returned to NS in recent years.

CSX last had steam pulling a public excursion in October, 1994 on the New River Train. The Milw 261 subbing for 765 which went down for overhaul. That just happened to be the final year of steam on NS, too so in 1995 both NS and CSX were steam free and perhaps Conrail as well, CEO Dave LeVan wasn't exactly a friend of steam, and and you had to go to Steamtown, R&N (425), etc. to ride behind long distance steam in the east in 1995, the 261 actually came to Steamtown in 1995 and pulled excursions so those of us in eastern PA could see it and ride behind it, I didn't go to Steamtown that year or 1996 when it was there. Was there ever a point when NS, R&N, and Steamtown had no steam running at the same time?

Robert K posted:

CSX last had steam pulling a public excursion in October, 1994 on the New River Train. The Milw 261 subbing for 765 which went down for overhaul. That just happened to be the final year of steam on NS, too so in 1995 both NS and CSX were steam free and perhaps Conrail as well, CEO Dave LeVan wasn't exactly a friend of steam, and and you had to go to Steamtown, R&N (425), etc. to ride behind long distance steam in the east in 1995, the 261 actually came to Steamtown in 1995 and pulled excursions so those of us in eastern PA could see it and ride behind it, I didn't go to Steamtown that year or 1996 when it was there. Was there ever a point when NS, R&N, and Steamtown had no steam running at the same time?

So are you saying that it wasn't something that happened that caused CSX to ban steam? I could have sworn I saw something a while back that said it was some event that caused the ban. It really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to me that a company would just say hey let's do that because they're doing it. There's always a definitive reason or reasons that such decisions are made.

I think NS just decided that steam excursions were no longer worth it, tied up their main lines,  and caused headaches for yard dispatchers. I guess new CEO at the time David Goode was against the steam program and wanted it gone. CSX not sure as they never really had an official program just allowed occasional excursions but Chessie had two separate programs in 1977-1978 with 2101 and 1980-1981 with 614. Chessie CEO Hays Watkins was a steam fan like the Claytors, and Wick Moorman. and Seaboard CEO Dick Sanborn who went to Conrail in late 1988 or so because Stanley Crane retired, and actually proposed a steam program for Conrail using an NYC Mohawk among others but he passed away. Dave LeVan became Conrail's new CEO and he wasn't really a steam fan.

Last edited by Robert K
So are you saying that it wasn't something that happened that caused CSX to ban steam? I could have sworn I saw something a while back that said it was some event that caused the ban. It really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to me that a company would just say hey let's do that because they're doing it. There's always a definitive reason or reasons that such decisions are made.
 

An incident on the 1992 New River train in which a tree fell on the dome cars didn't help things. There was also the Great Dismal Swamp derailment on NS with the 611 in 1986, but steam continued until 1994. 

Hello,

I started the thread and have been reading all of the posting, and really appreciate all of the information.

I have always been an avid collector of antique toy trains from all over the world, and also had a 2,200 loop of 7.5" gauge outdoor railroad around our property, but had to sell it 2 years ago because of rheumatoid arthritis. I also have 2 European 1" scale live steamers (a factory built in Germany by Zimmermann 4-6-2 DGR 01 Pacific that you see in my avatar with my wife & I). I was told by Zimmermann that it was the only one ever shipped to the USA. And a nice 1" scale 4-6-0 Springbok loco that came from South Africa. I'll try to post some photos.

I just got too busy to keep up with the "real trains" news on steamers. I can see how NS would not want ANYTHING to slow them down. Their amount of freight has them running as many trains as possible, and probably could get twice as much freight if they could move it. When the west coast port strike ended I had never seen so many container loaded trains headed east in all my life, and for many weeks. And now that structural steel has died and been replaced by everything steel being "roll formed" from coils, I also have never seen so many coil cars. And then there's the new auto carrier cars too, and still some coal trains. But, it seems there's very little box cars or refers, gondolas etc. rolling down their line in these modern times.

Their line is choked down & slowed by so many sidings for passing trains. And I never see them upgrading to a "two-way" full line. And not just because of the billions in cost, but they all get chocked at the lack of bridges crossing the Ohio River at Louisville, KY (and probably the Mississippi too). And those large bridges are shared by all railroads. So who would pay what percentage? 

I just do not understand the American psyche of ALL things history. I have a friend in Germany, and there are so many perfect operating steamers over there. And we "had" locos well over twice their size! And there will never be anything built like those in the next million years! I feel so grateful to live in the best country in the world. I just do not understand why we're such a disposable breed. From all antiques, to beautiful large building. Tear it down and build something ugly & plastic.

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The last steam engine to run in Louisville was surprisingly this century,  Rick James’s Chinese QJ “Old Smokey”.  I watched its inaugural run in 2008 on his home rails , the L&N’s “old road” (trackage leased by RJ Corman from CSX) from Louisville to Lexington. It’s made a few special runs and public appearances since then but I don’t believe it’s been out in several years.  

With the cancellation of the RJ Corman Lexington dinner train (where it’s believed CSX put there foot down and said no tourist excursions)  ,combined with Mr. Cormans death it’s unlikely we’ll see “Old Smokey” again.  Unfortunately if Mr. Corman was still around I’m positive I’d be telling a completely different story.  Mr. Corman is a true Kentucky legend!  Kentucky folklore says Mr.Corman flew in his private jet to Memphis and picked up a guy by the name of Calipari and brought him to Lexington.  

Your best bet for steam in Kentucky currently I believe would be if the Blugrass railroad museum in Versailles, Ky has another steam days this year (a locomotive was brought in from elsewhere).  That was the closest steam engine to Louisville that ran in 2017 I’m aware of.  

Norfolk Southern did run a steam excursion in Kentucky in 2014 on the CNO&TP; that’s as close as steam on NS has came to Louisville that I know of in my lifetime.  Doubt we’ll see anything like that again anytime soon.  

Kentucky railway museum (KRM) in New Haven, Ky is the  premier steam destination in Kentucky, but unfortunately no steam is currently operational.  Work is currently being done to L&N 152 and C&O 2716 to bring both back into service.  When completed both should make regular excursions.  

 

The south has very little steam running. The only states with operating steam in the south are NC and TN I believe. Tweetsie, Great Smoky Mountains, Knoxville tourist train, and TVRM in Chattanooga. Virginia and Florida the only operating steam are in theme parks, the both Busch Gardens and Walt Disney World. Georgia, nothing, even Stone Mountain and Six Flags have diesel powered engines. The Six Flags train was replaced with a fake diesel powered steam train. We're just going to have to accept the fact that freight railroads like NS and CSX are in business to haul freight and make a profit not handle railfan excursions. Most non Amtrak freight lines in the east and perhaps the entire lower 48 state US will now be unrideable unless you get a job with a railroad. Or Amtrak relaxes or reverses its ban and NS and CSX become excursion friendly again. On the bottom it says Amtrak's current stance on rare mileage trips off Amtrak's network: Not gonna happen. http://trn.trains.com/news/new...cting-charter-trains On those lines such as NS and CSX freight only routes you'll just have to railfan trackside or get an engineer job with them to ride the routes legally. Looks like I'll never get to ride the NS ex-LV and Reading lines between Aldene, NJ and Harrisburg, PA. No passenger service of any kind, since Feb 1961 for LV and 1963 or 1964 for Reading between Allentown and Harrisburg, there were a few special excursions for the public in 2013, 2014, and 2016 on those lines such as Lehigh Limited and two Amtrak Autumn Expresses, but it looks like there won't be any more of those.

Last edited by Robert K

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