Williams traction tires

Precisely measure the driver tire (not flange) diameter in millimeters and check the MTH tire list.

Great idea!

RJR posted:

Precisely measure the driver tire (not flange) diameter in millimeters and check the MTH tire list.

Ok , I have a tire which has split so I can get the diameter from that and contact MTH . Thanks for your suggestion . 🍀

         

 

No, get the diameter from the wheel.  The tire may have stretched and it's hard to keep an unmounted tire perfectly round for a perfect measurement..

Thanks , groove width / wheel diameter not flange or tire . Got it . 

   I've not seen the offerings to know how easy it may or may not be, but I'd imagine the measurements to be quite close overall. So I'd measure the wheel as suggested. 

  A tire is stretched when on. It becomes thinner and skinnier and longer.  Your split tire measurements may be too short, too tall, or too fat in it's retracted state.

Adriatic posted:

   I've not seen the offerings to know how easy it may or may not be, but I'd imagine the measurements to be quite close overall. So I'd measure the wheel as suggested. 

  A tire is stretched when on. It becomes thinner and skinnier and longer.  Your split tire measurements may be too short, too tall, or too fat in it's retracted state.

Thanks for the confirmation info . I found it hard to believe that Bachmann does not stock the tires . The  5300 model seems to be a common enough loco but has been dropped from current catalog . What The . . . 

They know MTH tires are best? (they seriously have the rep. for best tires) Glad to help .... Sorry for the delayed echo actually. Replies have been loading weird. Some skipped, some delayed. I didn't even see your and RJR's posts after the clover till now . Not even after I had posted.

I have a variety of engine makes, so I made a chart so I could cross reference to MTH tires, so far it's worked, but I need to fill in some of the fields.  You only need to look at the TYPE, MAKER, WHEEL DIAMETER, and MTH TT P/N.  The MTH TT P/N I shortened the numbers to save typing, they all start with DE00000XX as far as I know:

TYPE	RAILROAD	ENGINE NUMBER	MAKER	ENGINE P/N	WHEEL DIAMETER	MTH TT P/N	LIONEL TT P/N	ATLAS TT P/N	WILLIAMS TT P/N	WEAVER TT P/N
0-6-0	SAL	1093	MTH	30-1500-1	27mm	DE0000023
2-8-0	SAL	935	MTH		32mm	DE0000023
2-8-0	NPBL	44	MTH		32mm	DE0000023
2-8-2	SAL	411	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	33mm	25
2-8-2	SAL	492	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	33mm	25
4-6-0	SAL	653	Weaver chassis		35mm	27
4-6-2	ACL	1617	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	39mm	31
4-6-2	ACL	1549	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	39mm	31
4-6-2	SAL	801	Williams by Bachmann		35mm	27
4-8-2	SAL	240	Lionel	diecast	35mm	27	6000242206 1"d.048"t.118"w
4-8-4	N&W	611	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	38mm	31
NW2	SAL	1410	MTH	30-2669-1	22mm	DE0000018
RS3	N&W	306	Weaver		21mm	DE0000018
RS3	SAL	1634	MTH	30-2235-0	22mm	DE0000018
F3A	SAL	4030	Atlas O	1647-1	21mm	DE0000018		680505
GP9	SAL	1912	Lionel		21mm	DE0000018	600022108
GP9	SAL	1904	Atlas O		21mm	DE0000018		680505
E7	SAL	3029	3rd Rail		18mm	DE0000018
E7	SAL	3039	Williams		22mm	DE0000018			293-X003

Bob Delbridge posted:

I have a variety of engine makes, so I made a chart so I could cross reference to MTH tires, so far it's worked, but I need to fill in some of the fields.  You only need to look at the TYPE, MAKER, WHEEL DIAMETER, and MTH TT P/N.  The MTH TT P/N I shortened the numbers to save typing, they all start with DE00000XX as far as I know:

TYPE	RAILROAD	ENGINE NUMBER	MAKER	ENGINE P/N	WHEEL DIAMETER	MTH TT P/N	LIONEL TT P/N	ATLAS TT P/N	WILLIAMS TT P/N	WEAVER TT P/N
0-6-0	SAL	1093	MTH	30-1500-1	27mm	DE0000023
2-8-0	SAL	935	MTH		32mm	DE0000023
2-8-0	NPBL	44	MTH		32mm	DE0000023
2-8-2	SAL	411	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	33mm	25
2-8-2	SAL	492	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	33mm	25
4-6-0	SAL	653	Weaver chassis		35mm	27
4-6-2	ACL	1617	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	39mm	31
4-6-2	ACL	1549	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	39mm	31
4-6-2	SAL	801	Williams by Bachmann		35mm	27
4-8-2	SAL	240	Lionel	diecast	35mm	27	6000242206 1"d.048"t.118"w
4-8-4	N&W	611	Williams/Samhongsa	brass	38mm	31
NW2	SAL	1410	MTH	30-2669-1	22mm	DE0000018
RS3	N&W	306	Weaver		21mm	DE0000018
RS3	SAL	1634	MTH	30-2235-0	22mm	DE0000018
F3A	SAL	4030	Atlas O	1647-1	21mm	DE0000018		680505
GP9	SAL	1912	Lionel		21mm	DE0000018	600022108
GP9	SAL	1904	Atlas O		21mm	DE0000018		680505
E7	SAL	3029	3rd Rail		18mm	DE0000018
E7	SAL	3039	Williams		22mm	DE0000018			293-X003

Hi Bob , thanks for your list , for me it's taken all the guess work out of the problem . The engine number I have is 460 of PRR 4-4-2  E6 loco , the Williams model number is 5300 . Bob , I notice on your list there are (2) engines which use 39 mm wheels , I have tires which are 2 mm wide . Bob can you advise which is the best one for my loco ? 

 

Wow! Ive never had a page load like this.   Bobs list is behind jags post and continues past the post boarder, to and across the recent column 

I've seen that before, I pasted an Excel file into my post so that's what's causing it.

JAG...not sure I understand your query.  Do you have wheels that are 39mm diameter AND 2mm wide?

I've had a couple where the MTH tire is wider than the width of the groove in the wheel.  I found that, once I get the tire on and up against one side of the groove, I can turn the engine over and while running it take a single-sided razor blade and cut off the extra material.  Press lightly at first until you're sure of the cut and that it's straight, then press down until the blade cuts thru.  It's very easy to do and quick.

If anyone knows of an error in my chart let me know so I can fix it.  I've only replaced a few so far but they seemed to work.  Last one was on my Williams brass J.  So far the only diesel I've had to replace tires on was my oldest one, RailKing RS3 from a 2001 catalog and that was a few months ago.

I figured somebody would have posted this by now, but here is the matrix of MTH tires and the locos they fit.  The locos listed are all MTH, but a scale E6 has the same driver diameter regardless of manufacturer.  For the larger drivers, I try to use the next size smaller than the matrix shows.  The extra stretch helps the tire settle into the driver's groove better.  Bob D's tip above about trimming the tire also works well.  As he says, work slowly while the wheels are rotating under their own power.

The last two digits of the MTH part number are the diameter in mm.  Thus, there must be errors in Bob D's list above.

The MTH traction tire chart is not quite correct when it says all diesels.  The Ingersoll-Rand boxcab uses much smaller tires.  It is also a bit aged.  I haven't checked what the 44-tonner uses.

 

Bob Delbridge posted:

I've seen that before, I pasted an Excel file into my post so that's what's causing it.

JAG...not sure I understand your query.  Do you have wheels that are 39mm diameter AND 2mm wide?

I've had a couple where the MTH tire is wider than the width of the groove in the wheel.  I found that, once I get the tire on and up against one side of the groove, I can turn the engine over and while running it take a single-sided razor blade and cut off the extra material.  Press lightly at first until you're sure of the cut and that it's straight, then press down until the blade cuts thru.  It's very easy to do and quick.

If anyone knows of an error in my chart let me know so I can fix it.  I've only replaced a few so far but they seemed to work.  Last one was on my Williams brass J.  So far the only diesel I've had to replace tires on was my oldest one, RailKing RS3 from a 2001 catalog and that was a few months ago.

Yes the wheel is 39 mm diameter and the tire is 2 mm wide . 

RJR posted:

The last two digits of the MTH part number are the diameter in mm.  Thus, there must be errors in Bob D's list above.

The MTH traction tire chart is not quite correct when it says all diesels.  The Ingersoll-Rand boxcab uses much smaller tires.  It is also a bit aged.  I haven't checked what the 44-tonner uses.

 

When I made the list, I measured the wheels on the engines then tried to find the engine on the MTH chart BobB linked to.  The RK USRA 0-6-0 states (in the MTH chart) to use the DE0000023 tire, but the wheels measured 27mm, if I got the model of the 0-6-0 correct.  That's the problem with the MTH chart, they should have used the 20-XXXXX-1 and 30-XXXXX-1 engine P/N they use every where else.

If the tire requires stretching anyway, then maybe those numbers in my chart are correct.  I haven't lost one yet due to over-stretching.

Granted, some of them I simply guessed at, using what little data the MTH chart provided.  I figure a bit of stretching is better than being on the get go.

I'll be glad to make changes to my chart so people can use it IF someone can provide accurate data.  This is something that is really needed IMO.  Nothing worse than buying a set of replacement tires only to find out they don't fit.  And it's almost impossible to "try them on" like a pair of shoes.

I would recommend we all measure the wheels on our engines, then list the size along with the P/N of that engine.  If the norm is to select a tire slightly smaller than the size of the wheel we should be able to generate a pretty good MTH tire cross-reference chart for all to use.