2025 Lionel Big Book Discussion - Positive Comments Only

Nice comments. You're going to get some complaints about raining on the parade of those who enjoy raining on other people's parade .  Will have to look it over in detail in a few weeks when I'm at leisure.  I do hope the catalog brings some joy to many as toy trains are too much fun to have them be a source of unhappiness, or worse yet, bile.

WOW....hopefully a breath of fresh air...we shall see

Fair enough.

I will admit to not seeing anything worthy while viewing the new catalog online, but changing my mind after a few days. Especially once I get my hands on the printed version. That should arrive from Charles Ro (or other sources) shortly.

Visually the catalog itself is quite nice and even borders on overwhelming! Hopefully the new Commodore will be a big hit and we'll see them out there on layouts and at shows more often than not. It is significant in RR history as the 1st shrouded Art Deco steamer if memory serves me. The original issue from the late 1990's was initially impressive with the 3D panels of the body sides Lionel used that truly gave the impression of individual plates of sheet metal like the prototype. They seemed to go all out to create an interesting and accurate model of this classic from the NYC. Also that it (the prototype) was our beloved #5344 under all that steel gave it an added mystique for Lionel enthusiasts!

Feature wise it was pretty lackluster and the 'reversed paint scheme' detracted from it somewhat but it was the late 1990s afterall. With new detailing and modern Legacy electronics this should prove to be an excellent model for our fleet!  I only recently sold my original version for a paltry $350 at a local show. It had been upgraded with a wireless tether by a friend but was not a particularly good runner. It DID have one of the absolute BEST whistles Lionel put in a steam locomotive however and let's hope they include a 'reasonable facsimile' in the new one.  :-)

I'm "positive" the best value in the catalog is the battery operated sets. Being they are true O gauge compatible and I have seen some of them first hand locally, again, for value and bringing a low cost and what so far looks to be reasonable mechanical construction, hopefully will bring some some generations into O gauge.

I am being serious- the hobby needed an entry point set, and while it might not be the traditional 027 sets and metal track of the past, this can and does run on our tracks. Water based smoke and remote controls- just part of the times of trying to be that more environmentally friendly and kid safe aspect.

Here's hoping this does bring some families and younger generation into the mix.

A lot of new sound- and feature-rich cars, wish they release videos these in action to help people make decisions.  We've never had a SleeperSounds or LoungeSounds car before.  The autorack one looks fun, albeit a bit too modern for my collection.  Surprised the Freightsounds PS-1s are still not command controlled.  Glad to see the crane sounds work house back, talk about something never seen on the secondary market.  I like seeing an AEC item every catalog, the gondola is not too far into unbelievable territory, so I'll get it.

I’m a fairly new to the hobby. So for me, this catalog looks very cool. I’ve always wanted a 20th Century Limited so this catalog delivered on that. I’m just not sure if I will go for the set with the Vision loco or if I buy a “shinier” Hudson from the prior pages and then buy the 20th Century cars separately. The Hudson with the set looks a bit dull?

And I will probably swing for a commodore. The gold plated looks beautiful but that candy red set also looks stunning. And yes prices are up there but I’m excited these are available. Cheers!

Great thread.   There’s something for everyone in this catalog.   The Peanuts items are a must for me.  Maybe the Heisler.   Of course a 2025 Christmas car.
I’m thinking the Star Wars sets etc are a great way to attract new people to the hobby

• I've been a train collector for over 45 years so there isn't a lot I don't have already.  My biggest want was a Wabash LC+2.0 Trainmaster. Foiled again.
• I thought the catalog had a lot of nice offerings overall.  I will wait for METCA and Mr. Muffin before I make any attempt to order.

I was really hoping for some scale "madison" cars for the VL Hudsons. I'm not worried about realism so I'm probably going to pass on the 20th century cars.

I will order some of the Bob Ross goodies and that will probably be about it.

A conventional set is cool and unexpected. I'd have preferred no track or transformer to have knocked the price down a bit.

All in all it is a mixed bag. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I get why things cost what they do and I get why things are produced where they are.

When ever my VL Hudson shows up, I will be happy.

@Cheap&NothingWasted posted:

I like seeing an AEC item every catalog, the gondola is not too far into unbelievable territory, so I'll get it.

Yes! My AEC train keeps getting longer and longer, and I love it!

Only the AEC PS-5 gondola with canisters for me to add to my AEC set.  Already ordered my Hudson 5344 from offering a couple of months ago. Not sure what I was expecting, but thought it would have had more unique items.

I spent a few days debating on getting that AEC set. Seeing all the fun add on cars has me both happy and kicking myself for not jumping on that one.

@RamblerDon posted:

I spent a few days debating on getting that AEC set. Seeing all the fun add on cars has me both happy and kicking myself for not jumping on that one.

I missed out on it from the catalog, but I found a new one discounted at the Lionel Retail Store in Concord, along with the b-unit to add to the GP9 from 2001!

Hmmm, the FEC ES44 from Lionel or Atlas?  🧐

I've always loved my original, and mistakenly painted, CV Hudson. The new CV look very interesting. I just need the gold plated cars to go with them

Positive comments... Well, it's bigger than the 2024 Volume 1!

I will likely bite for the S2, I'll be sticking with the prototypical paint scheme.

Positive… sure…

what are the names on the auto racks in the FEC set?

I really like the Commodore Vanderbilt offerings.  The locomotive of the year one is particularly nice looking.  I've been sort of keeping an eye out for a good deal on the latest TMCC one, but I certainly wouldn't mind a slightly visionlined version instead.  I have a while here to decide whether I can swing that price.  Last year was absolutely brutal for for my train budget, so I'm a bit relieved that this catalog doesn't have as many "must haves."

I had pretty modest expectations for the Star Wars offerings, and I was honestly surprised to see a couple of Lionchief sets.  I wasn't terribly hyped until my wife reminded me that our Christmas tree is 100% Star Wars themed, and we look like a bunch of fools running Christmas themed trains under it every year.  We have thee loops, so I think both of those sets are in our future.  The sets may be somewhat plain looking, but I'm betting the sounds are going to be entertaining.

Was it a missed opportunity to do a Darth Vader themed Vanderbilt?  It kind of looks the part no?  I wonder if I would spend $1800 on that...

I wonder if Disney is doing any custom runs this year.  I doubt they'd ever do a legacy locomotive, but they have done Lionchief sets in the past.  50th anniversary of WDW and 100th anniversary of Disney (a berkshire version unique from the 2-4-2 that you could get anywhere).

Also +1 for the AEC gondola.  I'm pretty sure those coke containers are going to be carrying blue glow in the dark pebbles in the future.

Maybe the Southern 0-8-0 as well???

Okay, maybe it is a pretty good catalog.

The Vision CV PolEx steamer keeps staring at me.

@J.Dooley posted:

The S2 #6200 is beautiful, but I have the one from 2014 so not sure I need another one.

Did you like the 2014 version? I'm interested in an S2 but I'm concerned the turbine sound will be outright annoying.

I enjoyed my first couple laps through the catalog. One thing I'm curious about right off the bat: Are those RS3's the old school ones that are plastic with a single motor? They appear to be. Great price point but my old one was never much of a puller haha The last release of RS3s were basic but I have really enjoyed them.

I thought there were a number of nice engines and rolling stock, and it's great to see the battery powered entry sets for the youngsters out there. I love the giant articulated steamers but I appreciate seeing the selection they had in this catalog.

I was impressed with the Star Wars items because I really didn't think anything would catch my attention. I love the Jawa chasing C3PO and R2D2! That's fantastic!

@Patrick Keistler posted:

Was it a missed opportunity to do a Darth Vader themed Vanderbilt?  It kind of looks the part no?  I wonder if I would spend $1800 on that...

It sure does look the part!! That would have been something haha

I'm going to have to go over the catalog a few more times before deciding on anything. I'm enjoying it though! I hope Lionel continues to be successful. I'm also glad to see a thread of constructive discussion instead of the usual.

Some nice different paint schemes. I like the CNJ Trainmaster and the gondolas. The hudsons are also very nice but quite a bit out of my price range. I’m looking forward to seeing the hudsons and CV produced.

I think there is a lot of fun stuff. Nightmare before Christmas gondola, aquarium car and glow in the dark car are very well done.  I’m in for the chasing gondola.  The peanuts aquarium car is a childhood memorable scene.  The back lit tv look on the boxcar is a creative idea.

the commodore colors are nice I would have to see them in person to see if it translates into a wow factor.

the polar express commodore is well done but I got the plasma Berkshire and that thing is gorgeous  don’t have room for both

like the gold plated trim work on the train of the year    

like to see the heisler as it is neat and different and hasn’t been done in a long time

the new entry level I think is a great price and comes with the nice LionChief remote  love the water vapor effect, no smell and oil kids can do themselves   Big question for me is do they run on Fastrack?  I know it’s a battery but if they run on Fastrack  and I don’t need to get a bunch of new plastic track I could check those out for kiddos

Like to see the gantry crane as it’s a cool accessory but I have a couple of them luckily so good on those.  Surprised they didn’t try to add Bluetooth control to it that might have made me look twice.

Cool adding sounds and lights to auto rack.  Anything to bring the train and layout to life with sounds, motion, smoke, lights and colors is awesome.

Lionel has me tempted to pull the trigger on a big locomotive for once, that SP Daylight Turbine is definitely an example of a fantasy paint job done right. Now to see which store has the cheapest pre-order pricing to see if I really wanna go for this. If I don't go for the turbine I might look into one of the 4-4-2s. Those seem pretty good

I am immediately ordering one of the track cleaning cars, the only ones out there pre-2025 catalog were either big $250-300 brass bricks on wheels or custom building one yourself. These are only like $140 and the Area 51 version being called an "evidence scrubber" had me laughing.

The Star Wars stuff is pretty cool, I do wish they pulled the Phantom tooling out for this one but there's always volume 2 and the fact we have Star Wars trains in general right now is pretty awesome. They're also including little easter eggs on the cars like that one ice cream maker a guy in Empire Strikes Back was carrying on the Imperial chase car which had me giggle a bit.

Some of the other more whimsical stuff also has me tempted. The 4th of July logging cars look fun, especially that giant bottle rocket. Might need to get both that one and the ACME one and I will be thoroughly surprised of no hobby store does a custom run of that car as a US Army artillery shell.

@BillYo414 posted:

Did you like the 2014 version? I'm interested in an S2 but I'm concerned the turbine sound will be outright annoying.

I do, I like it a lot. The sound is more on the "unique" side than the "annoying" side. I definitely want to see if there are any tooling differences, otherwise not sure I need a new one.

I'll say this in the most positive way I can. Seems like another greatest hits album. Nothing in there catching my eye

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

WOW....hopefully a breath of fresh air...we shall see

To be fair Alan I have not looked at the catalog yet and I am not Lionel's demographic, but to have a thread that has only positive comments? Seems unrealistic as we should be fair and direct in our opinions.  My opinion only comes from the amount of "fan mail" I receive from my favorite O scale manufacturer and part time employer. 

Having said that, I will keep my comments to myself once I've looked at the catalog here shortly.  I don't expect to see anything of interest, but again Lionel is not catering to my demographic and in all fairness they really shouldn't!

@GG1 4877 posted:

To be fair Alan I have not looked at the catalog yet and I am not Lionel's demographic, but to have a thread that has only positive comments? Seems unrealistic as we should be fair and direct in our opinions.  My opinion only comes from the amount of "fan mail" I receive from my favorite O scale manufacturer and part time employer.

Having said that, I will keep my comments to myself once I've looked at the catalog here shortly.  I don't expect to see anything of interest, but again Lionel is not catering to my demographic and in all fairness they really shouldn't!

Yeah..That's like asking for a review of your product and having 5 stars as the only option. I think being respectful and civil is more like it. I haven't been impressed with Lionel's offerings of late. It's either the same old or more Polar Express. However, they know their customer, and I imagine do quite well with staying on the same rails year after year. The special runs are where it's for me, if it wasn't for those this would remain quite pedestrian.

Okay.  I looked at the catalog and will break my promise and have these positive things to say.  The Hiesler is a nice addition to the line.  I'm not allowed to say anything negative in this thread, so I'm done.

The 15" aluminum passenger cars are a big surprise to me.

But at $1,500 for four cars plus the Stationsounds diner it's is a bit rich.

@GG1 4877 posted:

To be fair Alan I have not looked at the catalog yet and I am not Lionel's demographic, but to have a thread that has only positive comments? Seems unrealistic as we should be fair and direct in our opinions.  My opinion only comes from the amount of "fan mail" I receive from my favorite O scale manufacturer and part time employer.

Having said that, I will keep my comments to myself once I've looked at the catalog here shortly.  I don't expect to see anything of interest, but again Lionel is not catering to my demographic and in all fairness they really shouldn't!

Hey....I was just making a comment about the OP's asking for positive comments only.  Heaven only knows that if we had a thread on this forum with only positive comments about a manufacturer's product, heck their would be folks saying that OGR ( read "I" ) must have deleted the negative ones.  Somehow I am the unrealistic one here?  LOL!  Lets see how quickly we get the same old "too expensive", "wrong color", etc. we see each time the Lionel catalog comes out.  .  (By the way, there is another and earlier thread than this one with the standard / expected comments about the catalog).

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Hey....I was just making a comment about the OP's asking for positive comments only.  Heaven only knows that if we had a thread on this forum with only positive comments about a manufacturer's product, heck their would be folks saying that OGR ( read "I" ) must have deleted the negative ones.  Somehow I am the unrealistic one here?  LOL!  Lets see how quickly we get the same old "too expensive", "wrong color", etc. we see each time the Lionel catalog comes out.  .  (By the way, there is another and earlier thread than this one with the standard / expected comments about the catalog).

Totally fair Alan   A totally positive thread on this forum?  That would be something amazing not only here but anywhere online in this day and age! 

My completely objective opinion is that when Lionel does well with a catalog ALL the O scale manufacturers do well.  We are not monolithic in our interests as much as we are in the scale we chose to model it.  All signs so far point to a good year for the industry assuming some the headwinds are merely that.

As to too expensive, wrong color, etc; I hate to say it, but all that will come to pass.  That is not negative or positive in our industry, it simply remains a constant.

We need to divert to the less controversial subject of architecture Alan .  I'm always available for that conversation!

I'm not saying people can't be negative. I mean, go hit most YouTube channels tonight and there's more than enough negativity to make Scrooge seem cheery and friendly. But it doesn't cost us anything to have ONE THREAD where people focus on the things that we are excited about, does it?

There's always going to be people who don't like something. And there are people who post here whose opinions I respect, and I'm interested in their thoughts (positive or negative). But man, some of the threads here and *especially* some of the YouTuber community are just negative to the point that doesn't feel helpful to anyone. I guess it gets the clicks, but it doesn't do anything for me. I choose to be excited about new catalogs and focus on the things that make me happy. I've been happy to see people chiming in here, and very much appreciate it.

Hat-tip to the folks at Mr. Muffin and Trainworld for having their websites updated and taking pre-orders while most of us were still reading through the catalog! As was the case for the 2024 Vol 2 catalog, Mr. Muffin has been impressively aggressive with the discounts, and I'm betting that it'll come down to who has the better shipping costs (Charles Ro always does well here) to decide which dealer to use for my pre-order!

@GG1 4877 posted:

My completely objective opinion is that when Lionel does well with a catalog ALL the O scale manufacturers do well.  We are not monolithic in our interests as much as we are in the scale we chose to model it.  All signs so far point to a good year for the industry assuming some the headwinds are merely that.

I 100% agree with this. For better or worse, Lionel drives our industry, and when they are healthy, the hobby is healthy. I'm hoping that 2025 is a great year.

As they say in football, "Upon further review", while I won't get dinged as hard as last year, as of now, I did watch the catalog show last evening and missed the NKP 8100 ES44s.  So with that it looks like I'll be picking one of those up, I have the Conrail and PRR that I run behind the 765 and this would complete that "set" for me.

The PE Vanderbilt is gaining ground. I have the PE GG1 ordered so I was hesitant to commit to the Vanderbilt but I have a lot of PE passenger cars and when the new observation car comes in, I'll have a spare from the original livery.  That being said I can split up the coaches between the Berk and the Vanderbilt so I suspect I will be getting that.

What interests me a lot is the LC+2.0 diesels and the LC 0-8-0s.  With being able to enter the LC and LC+ into Base3 they get some attention for sure but I suspect not as a pre-order.

I think Lionel did a pretty good job with this book.  We can complain about pricing all day long but in the end there is stuff for everyone in here.

I like those LC+ Santa Fe F3's, definitely caught my eye, same for the passenger cars on the next page. On my wish list!

@J.Dooley I think I might be in for an S2 Turbine. I will still check out Youtube videos but it's nice to hear someone's thoughts directly, as opposed to trying to make a choice from a video. I'll have to read up on the smoke lifters. I assume the smoke doesn't "chuff" from the exhaust? It's more of steady stream?

My favorite thing about the Star Wars cars is they took some of the classics (aquarium car, chasing gondola) and put the characters and scenes in them. I'm really considering the gondola with C3PO and R2D2 running from the Jawa.

@BillYo414 posted:

@J.Dooley I think I might be in for an S2 Turbine. I will still check out Youtube videos but it's nice to hear someone's thoughts directly, as opposed to trying to make a choice from a video. I'll have to read up on the smoke lifters. I assume the smoke doesn't "chuff" from the exhaust? It's more of steady stream?

My favorite thing about the Star Wars cars is they took some of the classics (aquarium car, chasing gondola) and put the characters and scenes in them. I'm really considering the gondola with C3PO and R2D2 running from the Jawa.

The Scale S2's are awesome.  I also have a 2013-2014 cataloged version.  Back then it was MSRP of $1299, so at $1399 the new ones are priced pretty good compared to where it could be with the cost increases we've seen in everything.  The stacks just stream smoke and the sounds don't chuff but in the catalog video Dave said the new ones will have an option to "chuff" like the PW engines.  Not sure if that includes smoke as well or not.

Here is a video I did of the 2013 era Scale S2.

Thanks Jeramiah - refreshing not having to read / listen to the same price / color criticisms

I'm thankful we still have these monster catalogs coming out TWICE a year

I do like the postwar style Reading F3's