@BillYo414 posted:Wow, I'm really sorry man
I mean it's great it's under warranty but that the same time, that's irritating. Any idea what caused it? Or what can cause this sort of thing? Just a wire or board coming in contact with the shell?
Thanks for your sympathy. My best bet would be a bad smoke unit board that took in too much power and subsequently fried itself. The last time this happened it was a smoke unit as well.
That's rough man @Trainmaster04 I feel for you. You ever send anything back under warranty before?
I gotta admit, I'm inclined to pop mine open and check all the wires and whatnot. I just hate to void the warranty in case something does go wrong.
@BillYo414 posted:That's rough man @Trainmaster04 I feel for you. You ever send anything back under warranty before?
I gotta admit, I'm inclined to pop mine open and check all the wires and whatnot. I just hate to void the warranty in case something does go wrong.
Many times and each time has been a different story. Sometimes it goes fine and other times it is difficult. With all of them, it was all time-consuming. I wouldn't blame you if you did but it is a hard gamble.
@Trainmaster04 posted:Many times and each time has been a different story. Sometimes it goes fine and other times it is difficult. With all of them, it was all time-consuming. I wouldn't blame you if you did but it is a hard gamble.
Well at least you know what to expect I suppose.
My long term goal is to be decent at electronics and be able to hold my own. I have done some real minor repairs and and an ERR upgrade. I feel like I could repair it if I could get parts. I don't know. I'll think it over while I work on getting the layout built.
Oh man, that is terrible.
Well, that right there is incredible!
Update on my 2-10-10-2. I called Nassau, who I preordered it through, for a replacement engine. They said they had no more due to two other people called with similar complaints. Hopefully this will not be a continuous problem. Onto calling Lionel and thankfully I was able to make some headway. They were able give me an RA number and start the usual process of getting fixed. The only problem is their turn around time is 4-6 weeks.
@Trainmaster04 posted:Update on my 2-10-10-2. I called Nassau, who I preordered it through, for a replacement engine. They said they had no more due to two other people called with similar complaints.
Your video.( and some others I've seen) It seems like the smoke unit for the whistle and blowdown is getting too hot. In my opinion. The blowdown and whistle steam is too thick and unrealistic ,yet the stack smoke appears like its under producing.
Folks keep wanting better smoke effects. the only way to get better smoke is to add more heat. Too much heat and well.....
I'm hoping you get your locomotive back in a timely manner ,with this issue resolved.
@RickO posted:Your video.( and some others I've seen) It seems like the smoke unit for the whistle and blowdown is getting too hot. In my opinion. The blowdown and whistle steam is too thick and unrealistic ,yet the stack smoke appears like its under producing.
Folks keep wanting better smoke effects. the only way to get better smoke is to add more heat. Too much heat and well.....
I'm hoping you get your locomotive back in a timely manner ,with this issue resolved.
Agreed. It was definitely to thick. As was blowing the whistle the smoke would immediately fall meaning it was too dense. I think for the blowdown it is almost just right, but for the whistle it is a little bit too much. It is a hard balancing at that either ends burning itself up or being too little.
@Trainmaster04 posted:Agreed. It was definitely to thick. As was blowing the whistle the smoke would immediately fall meaning it was too dense. I think for the blowdown it is almost just right, but for the whistle it is a little bit too much. It is a hard balancing at that either ends burning itself up or being too little.
Really sorry the boards fried. Your smoke is super thick compared to ours. Just curious, what smoke are you using?
Matt
Wasn't there a similar problem with the Santa Fe Northern's getting too hot as well? I think that only burnt out the smoke unit(s) though IIRC from the post a couple of years ago?
One thing I've also noticed on the newer smoke units is. If you run them , turn them off, and then turn them back on before letting things cool down. Things get really toasty upon restart.
I believe several years ago Lionel redesigned the smoke units to "ramp up" upon start up to get smoke production started faster. Unfortunately, they still "ramp up" even though the unit has already been warmed.
@SuperChief I use JT’s Mega Steam Coal Fired scent but I have never seen it produce this much smoke in any of my other engines.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 Yes, there was a problem with them which I had the unfortunate luck of have to deal with it.
@RickO Thanks for the tip! This being a cold start of the engine I don’t think that was the problem for my engine.
Maybe I'll fire mine up with all the smoke items off and then turn them on one by one to see if it pops.
@RickO posted:Your video.( and some others I've seen) It seems like the smoke unit for the whistle and blowdown is getting too hot. In my opinion. The blowdown and whistle steam is too thick and unrealistic ,yet the stack smoke appears like its under producing.
Folks keep wanting better smoke effects. the only way to get better smoke is to add more heat. Too much heat and well.....
Would adding a resistor limit how much power (amps?) can get to the smoke units to prevent this? That's a helpful tip about the ramp up getting restarted each time the whistle key is pulled. Especially if the board isn't checking temp before restarting the ramp.
TRAINMASTER04,
Sorry to hear about the smoke unit getting toasted. Hopefully Lionel will make it good. Question for you, what level on the smoke were you at? I have the Valley 2-10-10-2 but only take it to medium level. I only use it when wife is not around. I am curious if it was set at high and that was the cause? I remember with the TMCC units if you kept increasing the smoke it would get hotter. Did you stop at the high mark or did you keep pressing for more smoke?
@laz1957 posted:TRAINMASTER04,
Sorry to hear about the smoke unit getting toasted. Hopefully Lionel will make it good. Question for you, what level on the smoke were you at? I have the Valley 2-10-10-2 but only take it to medium level. I only use it when wife is not around. I am curious if it was set at high and that was the cause? I remember with the TMCC units if you kept increasing the smoke it would get hotter. Did you stop at the high mark or did you keep pressing for more smoke?
When I programmed it the locomotive was set to low and I increased it to medium. I kept it on medium all the way till it burn itself up. I generally keep my engines set to medium or have them off if my mother or myself can longer take the smell of smoke.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Wasn't there a similar problem with the Santa Fe Northern's getting too hot as well? I think that only burnt out the smoke unit(s) though IIRC from the post a couple of years ago?
Yup. 2019 run of ATSF 3751 class Northerns had the issue. They would melt smoke funnels and fans. It was a two part issue. The first was the unit thermistor was too far from the resistor. Secondly was a mis-programed RCMC. The smoke units were basically on high all the time with no way to turn them down. I wasn't about to send mine back to Lionel for a new RCMC as I had already corrected the thermistor issue and swapped the Canon motor for a 9433 Pittman, so I didn't want a service tech anywhere near the thing. After some back and forth Lionel sent me a reprogrammed RCMC, which I installed and sent them back the mis-programmed one. The issue was fully corrected after that.
@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.
@BillYo414 posted:@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.
I don't. The fix was to move the thermistor about 4mm (1/8 inch or so) away from the resistor. There is actually a printed graphic for spacing on the smoke unit but the thermistor was beyond 4mm when I opened it up.
Well that and a new RCMC.
Got to looking at my engine again and I noticed two new problems. First, the manufacture never packed the owner's manual with the locomotive, which is a first for me. Second, I noticed that the deck plate is missing its mounting screws! It is only being held by friction.
Edit: I also decided to power up the engine again, but isolate the smoke units. I turned off all the units, not through the remote, and still the same result. Also, without the extra smoke I noticed smoke curling from underneath the boiler that smells like electrical.
@Lou1985 posted:I don't. The fix was to move the thermistor about 4mm (1/8 inch or so) away from the resistor. There is actually a printed graphic for spacing on the smoke unit but the thermistor was beyond 4mm when I opened it up.
Well that and a new RCMC.
@BillYo414 posted:@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.
I know somewhere on the forum this was discussed quite thoroughly with a good number of our great tech friendly forum buddies talking about this and the fixes. Gunrunner John had posted about the resistor being too far away, I don't remember what the title of the topic was, but I could probably find it in my email notifications. I'll take a look after a bit as it will be easier to look on the laptop than the phone.
@BillYo414 posted:@Lou1985 Nicely done. Did you have a thread on that by chance? It sounds like a solid repair. I wonder if we're seeing a repeat of that situation.
I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up. I get wanting to learn electronics but that is not the way. Especially since if you do void you warranty and break it you have to buy the parts and send them in before you will get a replacement since its legacy. I would cut your teeth on something not quite that expensive. I would put it on the track and put it through its paces if breaks you have a warranty and yes you have to wait to get it back but leaving it in the box hoping to fix it yourself does not sound like the smartest move. I know enough to get by and fix my stuff usually but I do not mess with a locomotive with a warranty unless directed by the manufacturer.
Lionel (2019) - 3759 Santa Fe Northern - Whistle Steam Cooked Self
Here is the topic as promised, plus there is a link in it as well to a similar issue with the 2014 Big Boy. . Again, our good tech buddies came to save the day and offer their advice/know how to fix the issues.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up.
It's getting the satisfaction of breaking rules AND taking something apart all at once 
If we knew more, I would have a more serious attitude about taking it apart instead of joking around. I think I could fix the smoke unit if we could find out that is the issue. Then I don't have to wait for a warranty claim. But I'm hesitant because I might do all that work for nothing. And it does look to be some work compared to the b6 or 0-6-0T I messed with.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Lionel (2019) - 3759 Santa Fe Northern - Whistle Steam Cooked Self
Here is the topic as promised, plus there is a link in it as well to a similar issue with the 2014 Big Boy. . Again, our good tech buddies came to save the day and offer their advice/know how to fix the issues.
Yup that's the thread. I didn't post pictures of the fix for the Northern smoke unit but it's explained there. One note is the RCMC will need changed out as well to fully solve the issue.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:I am not sure what your eagerness is to pull apart $2400 dollar locomotive before the warranty is up. I get wanting to learn electronics but that is not the way. Especially since if you do void you warranty and break it you have to buy the parts and send them in before you will get a replacement since its legacy. I would cut your teeth on something not quite that expensive. I would put it on the track and put it through its paces if breaks you have a warranty and yes you have to wait to get it back but leaving it in the box hoping to fix it yourself does not sound like the smartest move. I know enough to get by and fix my stuff usually but I do not mess with a locomotive with a warranty unless directed by the manufacturer.
Warranty schmoranty 😉
I received my Valley Flyer. A screw came loose on a connecting rod after about 4 loops. How it occurred. I heard a squeak and turned the loco over to oil. A screw fell out. Extra screw? It’s happened. Let’s run it around to see if squeak is gone. Better brain prevailed. Did not run. Brought it down stairs for better light. Found where it fell out. Super small hex head. I was fortunate enough to have a micro socket.
My advice is check rod screw tightness prior to running. I will say, turn volume off and the rods sound like a sewing machine. Not as quiet as a Pfaff, but more like a Singer. It is a cool engine with a delicate look to it. Lots of bits as the Brits would say.
I’m happy. 3rd VL in a row without RMA issue. Thanks Lionel.
@BillYo414 posted:It's getting the satisfaction of breaking rules AND taking something apart all at once
If we knew more, I would have a more serious attitude about taking it apart instead of joking around. I think I could fix the smoke unit if we could find out that is the issue. Then I don't have to wait for a warranty claim. But I'm hesitant because I might do all that work for nothing. And it does look to be some work compared to the b6 or 0-6-0T I messed with.
As far as the warranty goes, I have zero issues with folks going into their brand new engines. My issue comes when after they do this and they complain the manufacturer will no longer honor it.
If memory serves me the problem was the thermistor which regulates the heat was too far away from the heating element. I know some of the service guys will know.
@Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I will say, turn volume off and the rods sound like a sewing machine. Not as quiet as a Pfaff, but more like a Singer.
I didn't know this knowledge would ever benefit me in the model railroad hobby haha but that's for the tip!
@MartyE posted:My issue comes when after they do this and they complain the manufacturer will no longer honor it.
Oh no, that's not my style. I keep warm by the dumpster fire I build.
To be honest, I always wondered how the smoke units kept temp and now I learned that. I've replaced parts in mine and that was fine but I didn't know the nuts and bolts of what I was doing. I'll wait a bit to get more info from other members before I go voiding any warranty.
Blowdown fail: FIXED. My 2-10-10-2 #3008 Valley Flyer arrived last week. A stunning locomotive. Looking at it is like sitting in front of a fire, it's hard to look away!!! Two initial issues. The blowdown steam effect worked once, then nothing. Initially the Engine just stopped as if it hit a wall. Why it stopped, I don't know. Fortunately, that problem has not repeated itself. The blowdown is another story. The whistle steam smoke effect is amazing. Blowdown would not work. The dreaded 3-blinking cab light came on. A reset worked in eliminating the blinks, but the blowdown still didn't work. Called Lionel resigned that I would have to send it back. However, Kristen, the customer support person I spoke with told me that since the whistle steam worked, it's probably not an issue with the smoke units, so she suggested using a shot or two from canned air directly into the exhaust port on the side of the loco. That was verboten with the Big Boy, but I tried. After a few attempts, whatever was preventing the smoke from ejecting was dislodged (?) so it now works 110%, to quote John Glenn. Kudos to Kristen and Lionel Customer Support! I've been running the loco 3-4 times a day for the last 3 days and everything works great.
@ToledoEd posted:verboten
Today I learned a new word.
Well that's interesting though! And a good fix to try should anything go wrong. I wonder if Lionel knows the issue is occurring or if Kristen just has that experience gained through time.
@ToledoEd posted:Blowdown fail: FIXED. My 2-10-10-2 #3008 Valley Flyer arrived last week. A stunning locomotive. Looking at it is like sitting in front of a fire, it's hard to look away!!! Two initial issues. The blowdown steam effect worked once, then nothing. Initially the Engine just stopped as if it hit a wall. Why it stopped, I don't know. Fortunately, that problem has not repeated itself. The blowdown is another story. The whistle steam smoke effect is amazing. Blowdown would not work. The dreaded 3-blinking cab light came on. A reset worked in eliminating the blinks, but the blowdown still didn't work. Called Lionel resigned that I would have to send it back. However, Kristen, the customer support person I spoke with told me that since the whistle steam worked, it's probably not an issue with the smoke units, so she suggested using a shot or two from canned air directly into the exhaust port on the side of the loco. That was verboten with the Big Boy, but I tried. After a few attempts, whatever was preventing the smoke from ejecting was dislodged (?) so it now works 110%, to quote John Glenn. Kudos to Kristen and Lionel Customer Support! I've been running the loco 3-4 times a day for the last 3 days and everything works great.
So the smoke unit for the blow down was clogged? I have read several posts where that has been an issue(smoke stack, whistle steam, and the like), never thought about canned air. Of course whenever I have added smoke fluid, I usually give it quite a bit of time to drip down in, then gently blow after removing my funnel. I usually wait about another 5-10 minutes before operating. This far I have not had an issue with any smoke fluid/smoke unit not operating. I do have one engine that is one that needs the unit replaced because of that generation of engines has had issues with it(F-12 Ten Wheeler from years ago). I have to consult the tech Gods we have for other advice on upgrading the engine as well as I forgot some things.
@Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:I received my Valley Flyer. A screw came loose on a connecting rod after about 4 loops. How it occurred. I heard a squeak and turned the loco over to oil. A screw fell out. Extra screw? It’s happened. Let’s run it around to see if squeak is gone. Better brain prevailed. Did not run. Brought it down stairs for better light. Found where it fell out. Super small hex head. I was fortunate enough to have a micro socket.
My advice is check rod screw tightness prior to running. I will say, turn volume off and the rods sound like a sewing machine. Not as quiet as a Pfaff, but more like a Singer. It is a cool engine with a delicate look to it. Lots of bits as the Brits would say.
I’m happy. 3rd VL in a row without RMA issue. Thanks Lionel.
Bryant, glad you had an easy fix issue with yours. It's scary when parts fall off and your left trying to figure out where they went. Last thing anyone needs.
These posts have been horrifying. I have 1 Vision and 2 Legacy locomotives that are 1 to 3 years old that I have yet to run or test. Woe, woe, woe is me. Time to assemble an 0-82 loop whether I have room or not.
@Stephen Johnson posted:These posts have been horrifying. I have 1 Vision and 2 Legacy locomotives that are 1 to 3 years old that I have yet to run or test. Woe, woe, woe is me. Time to assemble an 0-82 loop whether I have room or not.
I don't actually know what the Lionel warranty is but you are in the right place to get them fixed if you're a DIY type of person.
IF FedEx didn't loose Eastside Trains Pallet!!!!! I would have had a teardown thread of the engine already....we will have wait and see if it ever gets found. This was my only chance to get a 2-10-10-2....im peeved.
Black bonnet pulling freight
Rough times @Bruk. It has to turn up, right? Like that's not just a box somebody shipped...it's a whole pallet! If I tore mine down and broke it, could I send it to you for repair?
@Ulus Ekerman That paint job is just awesome. People can bark about fantasy schemes all they want...this one is just perfect. Is that a Pittsburgh backdrop in the background?
Beautiful engines. I hope those with issues get them taken care of.
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