This looks like a Universal Joint.
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That's definitely a joint, other wise the engine and tender would have to stay in a straight line. It's the rest of it that's the problem. I am not familiar with the facilities used by NS to maintain 611, but at least it didn't happen mid trip.
Yep I see the joint now. Must have been a helluva noise.
@jhz563 posted:That's definitely a joint, other wise the engine and tender would have to stay in a straight line. It's the rest of it that's the problem. I am not familiar with the facilities used by NS to maintain 611,
To be clear, NS does not own 611, nor do they maintain 611.
but at least it didn't happen mid trip.
Would the stoker screw be more or less a standard part that would be shared between 1218 and 611? I know that N&W tried to standardize many parts between the two classes; 611 already has at least one of 1218's siderods.
Not necessarily that they would go this route, but curious if this would even be physically possible. I understand there would be logistical aspects that would have to be worked out if they went with this option.
@jhz563 posted:That's definitely a joint, other wise the engine and tender would have to stay in a straight line. It's the rest of it that's the problem. I am not familiar with the facilities used by NS to maintain 611, but at least it didn't happen mid trip.
Last trip to Strasburg, 611 laid over at Hagerstown Md. and Enola Pa.
Like HotWater mentioned, NS does not lend servicing facilities to 611. Any service at these stops was most likely limited to oiling and checking the major moving parts for stress and or excessive temperatures. If there were any small issues, the fix would most likely be limited by the tools that they have in the tool car.
@Prr7688 posted:Last trip to Strasburg, 611 laid over at Hagerstown Md. and Enola Pa.
Like HotWater mentioned, NS does not lend servicing facilities to 611. Any service at these stops was most likely limited to oiling and checking the major moving parts for stress and or excessive temperatures. If there were any small issues, the fix would most likely be limited by the tools that they have in the tool car.
In that case what a shame it didn't hold together until arrival in Strasburg. At least it would have been at a shop facility.
@jhz563 posted:In that case what a shame it didn't hold together until arrival in Strasburg. At least it would have been at a shop facility.
Isn't 611 at a "shop facility" now, i.e. the North Carolina Transportation Museum at Historic Spencer Shops? That is where 611 has been worked on for quite a few years, since the Roanoke Transportation Museum, owner of 611, doesn't even have a building to work on 611 in.
@jhz563 posted:In that case what a shame it didn't hold together until arrival in Strasburg. At least it would have been at a shop facility.
It's probably better that the failure happened where it did. NCTM is a shop facility; it's where 611 was restored in 2015 and where it is serviced most of the year.
While Strasburg is probably more than capable of fixing the issue, it is still an unexpected and sudden repair that needs to be addressed. Strasburg already has scheduled contract work to take care of as well as service to their own locomotives. They would've had to squeeze this in (literally as 611 would need space in the back shop) between other jobs.
@Prr7688 posted:It's probably better that the failure happened where it did. NCTM is a shop facility; it's where 611 was restored in 2015 and where it is serviced most of the year.
While Strasburg is probably more than capable of fixing the issue, it is still an unexpected and sudden repair that needs to be addressed. Strasburg already has scheduled contract work to take care of as well as service to their own locomotives. They would've had to squeeze this in (literally as 611 would need space in the back shop) between other jobs.
I was going off the comment above about only having the tool car equipment available. Strasburg shop I am familiar with, whichever facilities are used to maintain 611 I am not.
@SteveH posted:This looks like a Universal Joint.
Correct. However, the issue is the broken-off auger itself. Since you have "zoomed in" just a bit too much, the broken-off auger is now out of sight.
@Hot Water Yes you're right too, I thought the shear was more obvious, than the U-Joint. I was just pointing out that the apparently skewed part was due to the U-joint.
Was thinking about making a joke that they could pick up a replacement auger at Tractor Supply, but at first decided against it. Oh well, now I've done it.
BTW. I'm a big fan of the J-class locomotives. My grandfather worked at the NW shops in Roanoke back then, he may have even worked on some of these beauties.
As the situation unfolds, I can't help but wonder what causes a stoker screw to break like that? It has to be the result of a tremendous amount of force -- that's no small screw!
Well, wear is what caused it. Just because it is big doesn't mean it lasts forever. Who's to say how long that part would normally last. I'm sure that some of the resident experts could go into detail about parts that are replaced more often than others.
Major bummer, I was going up on May 30th for a ride and hopefully some pictures! It appears that ain't happening!
I was planning two trips one a dinner ride with my bride and one for the granddaughter. Both will go on hold for now.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Well, wear is what caused it.
You know that how? Have you ever heard of a piece of wood getting stuck in the auger?
Just because it is big doesn't mean it lasts forever. Who's to say how long that part would normally last. I'm sure that some of the resident experts could go into detail about parts that are replaced more often than others.
For what it's worth, most railroads with coal burning stoker equipped steam locomotives, had quite a repair/rebuild process for renewing worn and/or broken stoker augers & tubes.
@TrainMan1225 posted:As the situation unfolds, I can't help but wonder what causes a stoker screw to break like that?
A large piece of wood, such as a piece of oak or part of a RR tie, was generally the absolute WORST item to jam-up a stoke auger system. The wood, usually wet, wedges into the auger and tube and really jams it up, to the point that even reversing the stoker engine doesn't solve the jam-up.
It has to be the result of a tremendous amount of force -- that's no small screw!
Now, all stoker systems were designed with a "breakable bolt" somewhere at an easy access point (usually one of the universal retaining mounts). Thus, under VERY high stress, that "breakable bolt" would shear, and no components of the stoker system would be damaged. However, if some unknowing sole used a grade 8 bolt in THAT "special position", well..............................!
@Hot Water posted:
Well, a piece of wood is wear and tear, isn't it? No matter what is the cause, wood, coal, bananas, whatever it is still wear.
And I'm sure that they do have the means to put it all back together since it would be something that they'd have to maintain.
Thanks as always Hot Water.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Well, a piece of wood is wear and tear, isn't it?
Not really. That is foreign material (like a big rock) that neither the stoker coal crusher, nor the auger was designed to transport. The "wear and tear" would be consider the reduction of the auger surfaces, over time, which were regularly built back up to dimension by welding procedures (usually in the back shop).
No matter what is the cause, wood, coal, bananas, whatever it is still wear.
Nope. Jaming a piece of wood in the auger doesn't WEAR anything,,,,,,,,,,,,it simply stops/jams the auger system.
And I'm sure that they do have the means to put it all back together since it would be something that they'd have to maintain.
Subsequent information out of the Spencer Shops, reveals that a "void" in the auger casting at the break-point, has been found to be the root cause. Now the many, MANY tons of coal must be removed from the tender, in order for the remainder of the auger assemble to be removed and replaced/repaired.
Thanks as always Hot Water.
From the horse's mouth as they say. Posted on the VMT.org site...
As VMT leadership previously announced, 611 was near ready to depart Spencer, NC on Monday morning when the fireman discovered that the stoker screw was not moving. The engine’s mechanical crew immediately began troubleshooting the issue and discovered a possible break in the stoker screw, a few feet into the tender.
VMT leadership in consultation with Chief Mechanical Officer, Scott Lindsay, determined that the most responsible decision would be to delay the move so that the stoker issue could be properly identified and repaired.
In order to further diagnose the issue, the engine and tender needed to be separated and the 35 tons of coal currently in the tender removed. Mideast Railroad Service was called to assist with removing the coal. After removing the coal, the stoker screw break was confirmed. The cause of the break was likely a weak spot in the original casting, as an internal void was observed extending towards the edge of the stoker screw.
Mechanical personnel have removed the screw from the tender and engine, and have already begun the necessary welding and machining required to make repairs.
Barring any unforeseen circumstances, the stoker screw will be reinstalled and tested within the next few days, engine/tender coupled and coal loaded as 611 is once again prepared for departure.
We would like to acknowledge our mechanical crew and partners for their assistance and cooperation: Strasburg Rail Road, Norfolk Southern, North Carolina Transportation Museum, Mideast Railroad Service, and Rowan Precision Machining.
Marty: Thanks for this information sounds like the delay will not be very long if all goes correctly.
It is amazing (at least I think it is) that modern tools can take a piece created decades ago and rebuild/reweld it to the point where it can be fully functional and last many more years. Now I have no knowledge of welding or remanufacturing steel parts. Maybe, while time consuming, this work is relatively straight forward, but I find it cool. 😀
@Hot Water posted:
Removing the coal by hand, or is there something else other than manual labor that will get the job done?
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Removing the coal by hand, or is there something else other than manual labor that will get the job done?
A bucket crane can do most of the heavy lifting, the rest by hand.
Rusty
Note the coal has already been removed from the tender and VMT’s wording makes it seem like the part has already been repaired. Seems like they’re starting to put the thing back together now.
@MartyE posted:.The cause of the break was likely a weak spot in the original casting, as an internal void was observed extending towards the edge of the stoker screw.
That's interesting. Wonder how long it was in service? All nine years of 611's work life?
@NS6770Fan posted:
That instagram page comes up dead for me. I'd really like to see your HO Enola yard.
Jim
@Rusty Traque posted:A bucket crane can do most of the heavy lifting, the rest by hand.
Rusty
Ooh, I would have thought that may have been somewhat dangerous to the tender. I guess they know what they are doing though. Thanks
FYI, I was at Strasburg today and asked the ticket agent when the 611 was coming. Funny look on his face and did not know if or when it was coming. I hope he is just out of the loop. I would keep in touch with their website.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Ooh, I would have thought that may have been somewhat dangerous to the tender. I guess they know what they are doing though. Thanks
Ya think!!!!!
@Hot Water posted:Ya think!!!!!
Funny. If only you would have answered my question sooner. Either way, guess it is a tedious process.
Anyone have any updates on the repair status?
According to the N&W 611 Tracking group on Facebook, she has been repaired, though, from what I am reading, she won’t be departing until Monday.
Any chance she will be coming through Enola again? I think I just missed her rolling past my work by about 15 minutes last year.
From what I am reading - so again, this is second hand info - the only variable at the moment will be if 611 will be heading to Hagerstown via the H-line in the west of Virginia or the B-line through central VA closer to Washington. North of Hagerstown it should be the same route as 2019. Also, if I am not mistaken, there needs to be a locomotive switch in Enola to accommodate Amtrak’s signal system on the final leg to Strasburg.
Oh, and on top of all the speculation surrounding the route 611 will take, this is subject to NS and what they think is the best route for them.
I'm hoping they'll be running the May 30th excursions as that's when my tickets are for. 
For anyone not following this other thread, @CSXJOE posted a recent pic of the 611 powered up at the Spencer Train show this weekend. 
She was fired up today when I arrived for the show. A friend that does work on the business side of 611 said it’s now getting the schedule worked out with NS but as someone else said probably Monday departure
@CNJ Jim posted:That's interesting. Wonder how long it was in service? All nine years of 611's work life?
That instagram page comes up dead for me. I'd really like to see your HO Enola yard.
Jim
Apologies, I changed my tag awhile back and never updated the link. Here’s the new one, however I’ve yet to post many shots of the yard. I’ve also taken to modeling a broader range of equipment other than just NS.
