Affording building a layout & Building a Train Collection at the same time

Not that I didn’t buy trains. My main focus was building a layout. About 22x48 in size. My layout is not all that interesting as far as complicated trackage or multi levels. I wanted a high scenery to track ratio. I’d go to shows and never came home with a train. Just scenery items or building kits. I started around 1990. Which worked out very well. I liked steam and they were a bit cheaper in those days. But still expensive so I didn’t buy much.  They also had no features. When I finally invested in command control around the year 2000. I wasn’t saddled with a lot of engines that needed upgrading. I sold a few off and converted a few keepers at the time. I knew a few modelers that invested heavily in MTH Proto 1’s. Acquiring every thing to build the dream layout. Then along came DCS and TMCC and they had an already obsolete fleet that had never seen the rails yet.
My main focus was the NYC, B&A and a few NH pieces. Nothing else. I’ve since started modeling the Rutland. I never bought much engine wise or rolling stock till the layout was pretty much complete. I’ve always pretty much focused on one road. Never really did both at the same time. I’m at a point now of finally doing both. But I don’t buy much. I’ll change up a small area scenery wise or add a particular car that fit’s my present scheme. I just don’t know how you do both today at the same time with not just the price of trains. But the costs of building a dream layout. Especially if you desire a highly detailed one.

It takes quite a bit of money to build a layout, and a lot more to build up a collection of equipment. I was lucky to have built up my collection over 60 years, so when it came time to build a layout, I could concentrate on that. Even a small layout can result in a high cost. I am building a small, 4x8', retirement layout. I have just spent about $100.00, on lumber, and about $800.00, on all new Lionel Fastrack. Again, this is a small layout. I have not even invested in a new operating system, or and structures or scenery. I will probably just use my old KW transformer to run the layout for a while. These new MTH or Lionel operating systems are really expensive.

I think most people today, who can afford model trains at all, will be better off if they concentrate on only one area at a time. Build the layout, or build up the collection. Of course, someone here may win the lottery!

Jeff

I did it the other way around. Built an inexpensive 4x8 layout, 027 track, post war transformer.

Can't say the same for the trains, i have enough to keep the NJHR layout busy. Not complaining/ bragging since most of us have way too many trains. Fortunately I started backing to the hobby in 2016 so after I switched to command control, TMCC and PS2/3 were well tested in the hobby.

I've recently started upgrading older locos with Lionchief and Flyerchief boards. Inexpensive compared to ERR or Stacker installs.

Scenery is where I go cheap. Rigid foam, cardstock printed stuff, dollar store ground covers, and acrylics are the rule.

I do hope to build something of a dream layout one day, Ross, Gargraves,  new power, controls,  all the bells and whistles. At least I have the trains already.

Bob

I agree with many of the points @Dave_C made.   

Here's my feedback, experience with my layout/collection:   I started my current layout around 2010 after a divorce, two relocations for employment and then needing and wanting to participate in taking care of my aging parents.  My layout is 23 x 40, single main line 240 feet long with about 90% of the items on my original "must Have" list.   Is it done today, no but it's 90+% there.

My two adult children nicknamed me "Bargain Man" more than a few years ago.  For me that was a critical trait (ingredient) in building a layout and continuing to enlarge and rotate the contents of the "Collection"....    Personally, once I got the plan pretty well documented after reading most of John Armstrong layout resource and planning books, I personally got much more interested in building the layout so that the collection would have a place to operate.   Having large number of trains on shelves as trophies lost whatever attraction it ever had.   

So Bargain Man, bought 99% of everything needed "used",  all the Ross/Gargraves track, Ross Switches, Turntables, almost all the purchased buildings with the exception of a few from Menards.   I'd say probably close to half of what I purchased was bought here on the OGR forum.   

I shopped Craigslist, FaceBook marketplace patiently and regularly and bought several lots of dimensional clear, or near clear pine 1x4, 1x6 lumber and most all of the 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch higher grade plywood I required.   Also purchased a bunch of Culled lumber from HomeDepot (which unfortunately isn't really available anymore).

In my case I decided early that this layout would be built in "irregular" shaped modules that could be removed and relocated in case my kids either wanted it, or wanted to sell it off.   It took longer, but had some serious advantages.   I didn't need the entire model RR worth of lumber, plywood, track switches etc all at once to get started.   The other advantage, is I was able to make adjustments to the track plan as the build continued and my ideas evolved.

I learned how to make very realistic block walls hand carved, retaining walls, and mountains/rolling hills without buying any expensive items form the major scenery suppliers.  I purchased around 25 NJ International Brass signal parts used here and then spent more than a few hours learning how to solder brass, and with the help of @stan2004 ended up with a wonderful ABS signal system protecting 11 signal blocks.

Was it worth it, absolutely.   It's interesting that being cheap, trying to exercise patience & discipline paid some interesting benefits.   I refuse(d) to pay market prices for many steam engines and 21 inch Pullman cars over the years.   The blessing was eventually if I was "patient" and kept my eye on various sites I'd end up finding what I was looking for.   Had I had no discipline, I would have just accumulated too many items too soon and then when the items on the "short list" became available, I wouldn't have had the funds, or would have to start selling items to raise cash.

The market, technology and our wants keep evolving, so I have learned that for me, there's a penalty for trying to force the issue and make it happen.  One of the few benefits of age !!!   Wisdom and a better perspective.

I also visited @Dave_C 's layout more than few years ago, after that visit I decided to go back to the Steam Diesel transition era and sold almost every diesel and modern freight car I owned....  Best decision I ever made !!

Here's some photos of the layout, seems worthwhile to add the photos so there's some context to the comments.

I planned my build around the market price for lumber. Prices for most of the year in 2022 were sky high. I would watch price of 2x4’s and when they hit below 4.00 I purchased. With one son working at Lowe’s the employee discounts helped out. I did the same with 1/2 plywood. For the lumber cost in Dec 2022, I paid out 130.00 to build a 8’x12’ platform using screws and carriage bolts on the legs and to bolt the tables together.

Prior to the build I stock piled RealTrax for 6 years or so when I saw a “steal” on eBay. I do not make much money but over the last 25 years the boys and I have accumulated 35 engines. I have managed to grab a PS2 and 3 units but most are conventional and PS. It take time but be diligent and “watch” items on eBay because you will be surprised what you can find without spending a small fortune.

When Dad and I finally got around to building his "Full Basement Layout", we bought the lumber, plywood and homasote from Menards, but almost everything else was secondhand from somewhere.

We started with his 1950's childhood 4 x 10 layout, added on a bunch of used Gargraves track, bought up various Ross switches and crossovers from auctions that we'd keep eyes on, and gradually filled out the layout just as Dad wanted it.  Probably paid about 60% for the layout and table versus buying everything new.

For the rolling stock...we had dad's old conventional stuff, then we had around 30 cars of rolling stock that we purchased 20+ years ago at an in-person auction for about 40% of retail, and then gradually filled out the rolling stock with other auctions and used things we found online.

For the motive power, I can honestly say we've NEVER bought a new unit retail.  Every single piece we have was either one of dad's original conventional engines or an engine we bought as "not working" from online or the MTH liquidation auction.  I learned over 5+ years to repair these to working order then eventually to convert to PS2 or PS3 after we bought a used TIU from this forum.

We would never have been able to afford the extensive collection of locos and rolling stock that we have.  I'd say we paid maybe 30-40% of retail for all our equipment (and in the case of the 8 MTH big steam premier engines, maybe 10% retail), but the trade off was MANY hours of tinkering and soldering and prying and buying tools and cutting my fingertips and ruining PS2 boards.

But those were hours I spent with my dad (and sometimes my son, too) and I say I came out way on top for the time we got before he passed.

Great points and best management practices, and you guys have some very nice layouts from what I've seen on the forum and in Dave's case, via magazine and video.

I was able to recycle most of the dimensional lumber, wire, screws and bolts and switches from my last layout. I could not salvage the plywood nor most of the Gargraves track (it had been ballasted). This greatly help offset the cost of my present layout, notably the copper wire, which may have been a mile or more in total length.

Good morning, Paul, everyone here is right on track you might say. I am working on my second layout and most of the folks that have chimed in here have given me so much help over the years and have sold me items with a very patience frame of mind.

I was late to the Model RR game and have been trying to play catch up and thanks to everyone here I am getting better at what I do. I have only bought 1 new rolling stock and that was an engine from MTH a PS3, everything else is second hand either from here or train shows.

95% of my lumber is used and all the 2x4's came out of a dumpster that a company is using while they remodel a coinvent store down the road, so far, all the plywood is used from old shelves that were left being by the previous owner, with this being my second layout when I took up the track from my old layout I cleaned each piece and saved all the ballast, washed it and dried it, then put it all in a 5 gallon bucket for this build cause that is how cheap I am!

To be honest it is a challenge to build a layout on just a SS check once a month, but the CEO is good with funds. It takes me a little while to save up for what I want and the forum members I have bought from have understood and are very generous with their time giving me time to save for what they are selling!

My train room, the only thing new in here is the 1x4 pine for the bench work and the sheet of 3/4" plywood for the new to me used Millhouse River TT.

I wish you the best of luck on your future build!

Very impressive how many of you have shown patience, discipline and tenacity in pursuing the hobby. Quite inspirational if beyond my abilities .  Thanks for sharing and congratulations on your achievements.

Mike, it looks like you have a good start on your next layout. Starting with one engine may seem slim to some CEOs, but in fact that's all a railroad needs to earn revenue; and by avoiding debt in one aspect = motive power, you can concentrate on building a layout. Speaking from experience, the more engines the more trouble because fixing and testing and returning them takes time, and that time could be better spent building the layout - at least that's how I feel.

Hi Paul thanks I miss lead you. I only bought 1 new engine, I have 4 diesel engines and 1 dummy diesel engine, 1 huge 4-8-4 PU steam engine with PS3, then a couple PS2 switchers. Also some old conventional steam engines.

I hate to say it, but when I can someday I will probably buy more! Lol 😆 It's kind of a disease!

Mike’s post got me thinking of how my journey started.  I worked as a mechanic. I would spend $30 per week on the layout. It bought a bit more in those days.  Every Friday or over the weekend I would pickup what I needed to make some progress the following week.   Always cash. Yes it took a while and was built sort of in stages. There wasn’t any real high end signature scene on the layout. No Wow factor.  That could come later. I would either buy lumber, wire or track. A 3 ft. Gargrave’s flex was under $4. I never bought a case. What ever I purchased that week is what I worked with the following weeknights. One week might involve benchwork. The next week was plywood and homesote to cover it.  Eventually I had enough done that I could change it up and start adding scenery. The Woodland Scenics bags were around $2 in those days. I would buy enough to give the layout a base coat and some ballast. One section at a time. You have to remember. In those days. The only shopping cart to fill up. Was at a grocery store. It’s easier these days to just buy everything you need at once on the internet. When you either had to travel to a shop and be limited to what they had in stock or talk on the phone to place an order. I think you more carefully planned out your purchases.
As far as train purchases. I did do jobs on the side. Some of that money was used for rolling stock or turnouts. I didn’t buy many engines.  I remember ordering a Williams Masterpiece Hudson and joining a Christmas Club at the local bank to pay for it.
It took about 12 years to get to the point that the layout was pretty much done track wise. Although I have changed a few things up. I now am mostly focused on engines or cars to fit my operating scheme. Even though my layout is fully sceniced. You can always layer more onto what you have or change out an older structure.

My move two years ago gave me a nice, finished room for a decent size layout, 12x16 L shape-6'deep; not quite as big as I would have liked but it wasn't my damp dark basement with low ceiling. It also gave me a separate area for unseen storage of mostly scenery making supplies for when I get to that stage AND a work room/studio.  What I LOST was my local hobby shop! Twice a year they had a "sidewalk" sale where he pulled out mostly used items at a great price. I built up a collection of rolling stock and scenic items. Even without those sales, there was always something pre-owned that was marked down and that is how I bought most of my buildings after first starting out with holiday porcelain buildings from thrift shops at about 5 bucks each (those are only used on the Christmas layout now). That is also where I purchased much of my Fastrack and switches (used). I trusted the owner, Tony, and knew that everything had been tested and I bought a few engines from him too. I have also done well with Ebay where I bought track in bulk as well as more MTH stores and just this week a MTH Premier F3 at a VERY good price. I do not have a high-end collection, started with a few ready to run sets at the beginning but just gave a few away and mainly have MTH PS-3s now and a z4000 to run them conventionally (also used from Tony's shop).  I also have the remote for it but have not programmed anything yet and hope that I can do that successfully this summer as I finish up my wiring. I do NOT have scale nor will I, so saving quite a bit of money that way. Other than a Premier steam loco, I think that I am finished with the spending and need to get on with the scenery.

New train room before the move-in. I guess that you could say that the most expensive part of the hobby for me was buying a new house for it and the subsequent move!     Mikki

Excellent topic for discussion, Paul!  I came to O gauge from smaller scales in 2012, the year I joined the forum.  I had sold nearly all my HO and N scale and used the money to help pay our daughters' tuition, so I had nothing to contribute to starting in the new scale.  I was laid off again in 2015 and haven't been able to work since late 2018, so I am in a similar situation as Mike. 

Most of my engines and rolling stock were bought used.  Some of you contributed to the cause.  I wish I could say I am as disciplined as I could be in buying engines and cars, but all in all, I do pretty well.  I made some 'mistakes' early on and some of you have given my 'mistakes' new homes.  I do have 3 diesels I bought new before prices started going up.  The steamers were all used.  Now, if I buy something, I try to sell something.  I don't have room for displaying a collection anyway.

Most of you are familiar with my layout crammed in an 11x11 room.  Track and switches cost a good bit, as most were new.  However, I am not going to glue down ballast and may not even put on any loose ballast in case I find myself in Mike's position someday.  I have also been kidded for using a menagerie of wood.  The used wood supply has run out, but served quite well. 

Spock said in Amok Time, "Stan, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting.  It is not logical but often true."

Spock was talking about his fiancé, but I think it works for trains as well.

For the longest time, all I could afford was the catalog.   There are so many ways to enjoy the hobby, I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from MPC era stuff.

I started with a 4by8 table then added a second.  I only screwed a few of the track pieces down here and there, no ballast.  That way when I expanded my layout, it was easy to configure and reconfigure the track plan.

I have expanded my layout twice, I did find that I tended to like to just run my trains, not doing much switching, so I probably did not need as many switches that I have on the layout.  So, knowing what and how you will be running trains may help save some money. 

Developing a track plan can be fun,  a simple approach may be the best, especially for the first layout.

Building the layout so that it can easily be broken down and transported makes a lot of sense. 

My layout has one line (out of three) than has 54 inch curves, the other two lines are 36 inch. So, by design I have limited my purchases to smaller sized engines.

Scenery can be challenging, for the hi-rail look, I highly recommend the Dennis Brennan "Realistic Modeling for Toy Trains, a high rail guide". He covers everything from benchwork,  wiring,  scenery, etc. the one difference I make with ballast, I only ballast outside the rails,  and nothing beween the rails. Most people don't notice. 

What I have not done well is to sell or give away, equipment I don't need, I started an eBay store to sell baseball cards, so at some point will pivot to selling trains.  Obviously the OGR Forum is worth a try as well.   

When I got out of the Army and went to college, I lived in perhaps one of the smallest row houses in Philly, only 9.5 feet wide. My desire to build was strong and while I was on a very strict budget, I nonetheless built a 3' x 4' O-gauge train layout using O-27 track. Later, I built 2' x 4' modules.

The "groove" that I've been in the last decade or so has been one of continuously wanting to build nicer scenes that complement the detailed O-scale trains. I bet many of you can relate to this. We see these magnificent locomotives and cars and desire to build layout scenery & operations for them to run and operate through. The "name of the game" is having fun, and the craft of our hobby doesn't have to be expensive.

Just my two cents:

Collections take years....if not decades....to acquire.  I wouldn't rush it....and the long searches are part of the fun.

Once people have a modest size "collection" and they see a new locomotive or what not, they often pay for part of the new loco by selling an old one to help offset the cost.  The collections that you see in magazines and on line often took decades to put together.  Unless you're made of money, it's hard to put together a large collection quickly.  (I opine that it's not as much fun that way....but opinions vary.)

You don't HAVE to build a DREAM layout right off the bat.  My 20x7 layout was NOT very expensive to build.  Granted, Baltic Birch and #2 1x4 pine were a lot cheaper in 2004....but I digress.

It's not that expensive or time consuming to get two mainlines up and running in a small to medium sized space.  It's also fine to only have 2-5 locos at one time.....and some modest rolling stock and passenger cars.

If money is a concern (as it should be) I'd go for QUALITY over QUANTITY.  I'd also build the best small to medium sized layout that you can afford that isn't over the top.  Personally, I'd rather have a paid for, cr*ppy layout....than a big, dream layout this saddled with debt.  Admittedly, us CPAs are cheap.

What I'm describing is NOBODY'S dream layout.  But it's easy to do and can be done quickly...and won't break the bank.

A half baked, half done layout that lets you run trains is fine.  Start small and then work your way up.

Lumber is tough these days - expensive, and poor quality.  I used to be able to pull any #2 1x4 off the stack and it would be usable and the cost would be negligible.  Now, I need to go up a couple of level$ in order to get straight boards and still need to choose carefully.  Fortunately, lumber is a one-time purchase and there are many ways to mitigate the cost.  Scour the neighborhood and watch for discards, dumpster dive at construction sites (ask, and be safe and legal!), watch for sales and stock up. Use substitutes for sheet goods - 3/4" plywood and baltic birch are often overkill - 3/8 or 1/2" is usually sufficient, and OSB roof decking is much less costly and plenty strong.  I'm still re-using lumber from layouts that I built 40 years ago.

Regarding the trains themselves, postwar and MPC items are out of favor - there are lots of good running pieces that can be found at bargain prices.  If a person wants more detail, MTH PS1 locos have a lot of detail and are hundreds of dollars cheaper than their PS2 and PS3 counterparts.  Don't forget Williams - they're great runners with a reasonable level of detail, and lots of NOS are available.  Sure, conventional engines don't have the latest bells and whistles, but you don't need to buy an expensive digital operating system.

It can be done...

Great thread; it's fun to see so many different approaches to the same goal.  I've just moved for the second time in a year, and am downsizing in a big way. Ironically I'll have a little more space for trains but some cast-in-stone restraints, so here's my plan: Layout size is 5X9; defined by a well-used and free pingpong table. Lionel Fastrack, with 36" minimum curves, and 072 switches, because I have them in stock. All steam power, no engine larger than a Hudson. The table is sheeted with used Homasote scraps, this will be covered with green posterboard "grass". All wiring runs around the perimeter and/or across the surface, with channels cut into the Homasote, so I don't need to crawl under. I've never been much for scenery aside from a few buildings, so this rather plain setup works for me.