Amtrak Derailment Outside Philadelphia

Dow Jones is now also reporting the 100mph speed.   

Possible brake failure of some kind ???
Just speculating

I don't know, it's hard to tell from this surveillance camera how fast it was going @ the moment it derailed....

 

 

 

Again thanks to all the first responders, police and fire fighters and all the passengers that stopped to help other passengers.

We as train guys and gals look at this crash in a way other people would not understand.

 

       
       

Eric

 

A terrific observation

 

My prayers are with all traveling on that ill fated train

Good God this car is twisted like a pretzel. In every pile up there is a "death car" and it would make sense the lion share of fatalities occurred here.

That surveillance video is really creepy.

My guess is that mangled car is the one that took out the catenary poles.

It's very sad for those who died in the wreck, but the fact that so far only 6 people were killed is actually miraculous to me. With the amount of trauma in the wreck, I thought many many more people would've died.

AT noon, Philadelphia's KYW Newsradio is reporting a seventh person is dead.

       
       


Very true; thank God for Tight Lock couplers. The remaining cars stayed together long enough for the inertia to diminish. That "pretzel stick" Amfleet car is scary to look at. The energy to twist that car like that had to be incredible.

May God be with the families of those involved. Sad day for Amtrak and U.S. railroading.

CNN is now reporting that sources close to the investigation say the train may have been exceeding 100mph.  I can't imagine a train traveling at that speed in that area.  The only time I've seen those speeds is north of Princeton where there are miles of open straight-aways.  It's quite a site to see.  But in North Philly?  No way!  Trains I travelled were often crawling through those areas approaching/leaving north Philly.

I'm sure we'll hear more official details at tonight's NTSB press conference.

David

Okay, I'm confused. Have now heard and read several media reports that reference the "Amtrak conductor" in a role that I thought would more properly be that of "engineer" or maybe "train operator." As in, what responsibility, if any, might the conductor have for the derailment/crash?

 

Am I basing this on outdated terminology/defintions of job responsibility? Please set me straight. I'm all ears (eyes).

 

 

The news media often (meaning "almost always") mis-state the engineer as "conductor".

 

Same with their calling trucks "undercarriages"--only our news media does that.

 

---PCJ

Guess you never waited for an NJT train in Trenton!

Reportedly NTSB just released a "statement" that the "train speed was 107MPH".

 

Yea, at this point, it looks like operator error. We won't know for sure until the NTSB finishes their investigation. ( note Kelly Anderson's post above...)

Someone tell me these new locomotives have "black boxes" - up from just the older Barco speed recorders?

Was the engineer impaired ?? Drugs? Alcohol? Texting?  The defense will be "Mechanical failure"  The engineer should go to jail unless it was mechanical-which I doubt. The big wreck in NY was a high speed derailment on a curve, too.

Yes, modern day event recorder, which records speed, throttle position, signal indication, air brake status, and some other items.

       
       


Failed attempt at suicide like that German airline pilot a month or so ago?

Latest report, the Engineer left the Police station, refusing to be interviewed by the Police until his attorney is present. 

I know that it was a very bad accident to happen, it sure is a tragedy. The news media is really running this one up the flag pole so to speak! But with airplane accidents most people die.

According to the latest on Yahoo news; 7 dead, 200 injured, and the train speed was estimated at 107 mph before leaving the tracks. That is almost an unbelievable speed for an Amtrak train to go. Is there a system in place to monitor train speed? If not there should be, especially on an electrified line.

 

Lee Fritz

 

Earlier today I was watching Fox news when a "safety expert/accident reconstructionist" or the like was being interviewed and recall a couple of references to an older automatic speed control system, and a newer version currently being installed.  According to the expert, the automatic speed control system should have prevented the locomotive operating at an excessive speed.

 

Anybody know the truth about these systems and their use in the vicinity of this crash?

Thanks, RailRide. I heard it in a report this morning on the news and then read it a couple of times in online articles.  Had me questioning myself.  

I have taken the position of letting the investigation play out on this one.  Too many factors involved to place blame anywhere yet.  The ACS-64 is only a year old and we have seen in the past that new technology has bugs that may not be immediately apparent, there could have been other mechanical issues at play, or it could be operator error.

 

To me the main issue to me is the tragic loss of life, the suffering of injured and traumatized passengers as well the trauma caused to family members, first responders and to Amtrak employees who all did what they needed to in this time of crisis. 

 

While this is an important story, it is thankfully a rare occurrence and had it been an aircraft we would have been hearing a very different story on the loss of life. 

It seems to me that areas of  severe track curvatures is of the highest priority for the  automatic train control system to be operational.

 

A very important Investigation Question is why was it not in place on this curve.

 

 Investigators of Tuesday's deadly Amtrak derailment say they are focusing on reports that the train was traveling more than twice the 50-mile-an-hour speed limit when it entered a sharp curve in Frankford.

 

This news piece with the security video shows the train right before the curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ed&v=7PL4LOczlZo 

Kind of hard to tell for sure, as there's no way to know if it was taping in 1:1 time...

It sort of looks like it's going really fast, but you can never tell from something like this.

No.  My points of reference are areas between Princeton Junction and New Brunswick back in the days when Metroliners were Amtrak's train of choice for NYC commuters needing to make time.  When riding them, 100+ MPH doesn't really seem fast.  But if you ever get a chance to observe a high-speed run-by trackside out in open straights, it's very impressive.  The first time I saw it, I was amazed the area where the pentagraph makes contact with the overhead catenary doesn't melt.  The friction up there has gotta be tremendous at high speeds!   

 

Truthfully, as I said earlier... The area of this latest accident is a very run-down, urban area of North Philly -- certainly not an area where one would expect to see a train traveling 100+ MPH even on the straightaways there.  Something is definitely amiss here, and your heart just pours out for the victims and their families.

 

David

the new media tonight said the train was going in excess of over 100 MPH which is why there was a derailment!

sounds like operating engineer was going way to fast which made the train derail due to excess speed!Human Error

 

Alan

The news mentioned a crew of 5. Would that mean 2 engineers and 3 tail end crew members?

I believe that Amtrak trains only have one engineer.  There was an accident on the NH in the 1950s where the engineer had a heart attack.  The train failed to slow for a curve outside of Bridgeport and derailed.  

 

 

For the sake of reference showing the huge distance the locomotive continued to travel past the track. The velocity that this train flew off the end of that curve is astounding. Just crazy! Now why? How?

Just heard on the news that the train was going 106 mph on a curve with a speed limit of 50 mph.

I watched the NTSB press conference this evening and among the salient facts were that the train left DC at 7:10 p.m.; reached 106 mph (in a section of track with a 50 mph speed limit) when emergency braking was applied by the engineer; and, seconds later, the train derailed at 9:21 p.m. at a speed of 102 mph.

 

As Erik's photos show, the locomotive travelled an extraordinary distance after leaving the track.  There are additional photos on Yahoo News that provide some different perspectives of the locomotive relative to the track it left and the distance it travelled before coming to rest.

 

EDIT:  Apparently the NTSB spokesman misspoke regarding the departure location and time; and, my reply has been edited accordingly.

 

 

This is just so tragic.  My prayers are for all the people involved in the crash as well as their families. It is a terrible day for all.

 

I really hope families who have loved ones injured or missing have a more reliable source of critical information than the media. 

 

It is absolutely disgusting to me how the media will do and say anything, irrespective of accuracy in order to be the first to report, or to remain relevant as the story unfolds. They should be ashamed.

 

Ed

The NTSB lead investigator stated that the system was mandated to be in service here .... by the end of this year.

Get it straight...the speed of the track BEFORE the curve was 80 mph...engineer was supposed to slow to 50 at the START of curve...please temper what you see and hear on CNN!  And remember...the CONDUCTOR IS THE TOP DOG ON THE TRAIN...responsible for putting the train into EMERGENCY!  Ron B.(former engineman on the Northeast Corridor).

It's called POSITIVE TRAIN CONTROL.  PTC has not been installed on this part of the Corridor.