Amtrak Derailment Outside Philadelphia

Not sure what you're getting at?  I'm curious whether the engineman was a regular on this job or caught  this trip off the spare board. Hopefully he knew the road.

You lost me. I don't know what the man's experience and familiarization level with the track territory had to do with the "local neighborhood folks" shooting at passing trains.

Art,

You should not be up drinking this late at night

I get it now, . rough neighbourhood.  I wasn't sure what you meant by  Projectile marks.   I do now.  Scary stuff.

Commuter train Canton Station to South Station, Boston.  Note the windshield protection.

  

I have to agree with you, Sir! The "Big Three" are acting more and more like tabloids. IMHO. 

The "Big Three" are a waste.  What is interesting about this is the fact that the train increased speed going in to the curve, way over the limit, then put it in to "emergency".  ?  Did he wake up and realize it was too fast, a momentary lapse in judgement, distracted, or just stupid ??  Some years ago on NS straight main line track at Leets approaching Conway an engineer put his coal train into emergency due to a man on the tracks and some loaded coal cars derailed. Never have been an engineer but can't imagine an emergency application at high speed entering a curve like that is good train handling ??  You do it in a car and you are going in to the weeds.

It's nice that your image is hosted by Angelfire Sam, but if you upload it here, we can see it too.

 

Here's what I see...

 

 

I just saw (read) about this as well from outlets that are not "national news" sources.

 

Interesting, if not scary.

 

 

I also just read a report that said PTC (or whatever it's called) is installed in this area, but not yet activated due to FCC holdups with frequency assignments/releases.

 

Since I am certainly no expert on any of this, I will not speculate.   Just stating what I've read.

Well I copied the image and pasted it to here and it looked OK.  Well see what I can do.  (Hey, lucky Angelfire wasn't an XXXX site with an explicit picture!!)

New surveillance camera footage:

http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/n...k-crash-444811843581

Sam, you can't copy & paste an image directly, you have to attach it with the Add Attachments.

 

If you want to host it on Angelfire, you use the little tree symbol in the toolbar and paste the URL of the image.  I do that all the time with other images on the web, don't know what would be special about Angelfire.

 

Two trains, a SEPTA local and an Acela, which passed through the area before 188 reported projectile strikes. The Engineer's window on the SEPTA train was broken in the incident. Based upon these reports from earlier trains and damage to the 601 which suggests it may have been struck by one of more projectiles, we can be certain the possibility that 188 was similarly victimized and the event was a contributory factor to the derailment is one of the scenarios being considered by the investigators.

 

As far as Engineer Bostian is concerned, he appears to be a conscientious and safety minded railroader who enjoys his job and got into it because of a life long passion for trains.

 

Bob     

Hi John,

AAH this is more trouble than its worth.  Just take my word for it it was 1.00 inch flange depth.  Geeze why is everything ten times more complicated than it needs to be!!

Now it will be more interesting to read the NTSB to see what was found.  Interesting turn of events if it really is third party involvement.

And just what evidence has led you to that concrete conclusion??

This is sounding more and more like what actually happened. If he really was past the curve, he normally would be accelerating toward 110MPH.

 

If he was truly unaware that he hadn't passed the curve, his first indication that something was wrong would be the hard left turn suddenly appearing in his field of view (remember this was at night). 

 

---PCJ

How does the train being "struck by projectiles" relate to the speed coming into the curve increasing from 70mph to over 100mph? 

I'm not calling it 'concrete evidence' but...

 

http://nypost.com/2015/05/14/a...for-more-safeguards/

 

The above article quotes his past posts on trainorders.com.

 

---PCJ

Well, if "projectiles" (note, they are being politically correct and NOT stating bullets) were hitting the windshield glass, directly in front of your FACE, wouldn't you be a bit "distracted"?

Are they bullet holes?

THAT is part of the ongoing investigation, especially since a locomotive windshield glass (a commuter train) was  seriously damaged by "projectiles", just prior to the Amtrak train.

Steve:

 

Having used the word "appears" in my statement, it wasn't intended to be a concrete conclusion; rather, I offered it from my own perspective at present. Mr. Bostian has been a participant in other on-line railroading sites and has discussed the need for improvement in certain aspects of the industry in a sensible and professional manner. He's worked in multiple crafts and stated he chose his career based upon a passion for railroading. Based upon what I've read and learned about the man, I certainly wouldn't have any reservations about him being Engineer of my train. After reading some of the previous posts, one of which referenced possible suicide along the lines of the recent plane crash, I just wanted to chime in with some positive things I've learned about him.

 

Respectfully,

Bob    

I found it interesting that the article about him in one New York Newspaper was indeed pretty favorable, while the New York Daily News used the term "rants" concerning his posts on TrainOrders over the last few years. Too funny.

I agree - I'd be distracted - probably on the floor.  However, since the train was going 70mph prior to the curve, again, how did this "distraction" cause the train to accelerate by 50% to 106mph.  Did it accelerate on it's own?

Continued evaluation of the event recorder data will most likely reveal that information. When the NTSB chooses to RELEASE that information to the media, that is another question.

Apparently the engineer in question had seriously been into trains when he grew up, supposedly would go and watch trains like "City Of New Orleans" come by the station in the town he grew up in and the like. According to the bio I read, he got a degree in accounting, worked in the field a while, but then quit to work as a conductor then engineer for Amtrak. According to the article, those that knew him said he was very methodical in how he did things and was always taking about safety and risks, which would make what happened ironic as well as tragic.

 

Has nothing to do with what or who was at fault, just is interesting that the guy driving the train apparently was a railfan who found what he thought was his dream job or something. 

That's the impression I walked away with after watching CNN's 10PM program last night too.  They interviewed a personal acquaintance from years ago as well as another Amtrak engineer who relayed positive things about Bostian.

 

Lots more information still to be collected before any definitive conclusion(s) can be drawn.

 

The local newspaper here in Doylestown has a quote from Bostian's attorney reporting that nothing out of line showed up in Bostian's blood sample that was drawn after (or while) being treated for his injuries.  Haven't been watching the news today, so I don't know if that's being reported in the TV media yet.

 

The quote attributed to Botian's attorney indicated, "no drinking, no drugs, no medical conditions, nothing".

 

We're also now seeing more information about the 8 victims, now that they've all been identified.  This is the toughest part of the story, and our hearts just pour out for the families affected.  I'm 56 now, and seeing how young these victims were... 20's, 30's and 40's makes me feel sad that they were called from this life so early.  Many of us have ridden in those business class cars (that was the car that was really mangled in the derailment) in our careers, and the randomness of why these folks were in that car at that moment makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I think about it.  Looking at the smiles on their faces and the sparkle in their eyes brings home the human tragedy of this accident. 

 

I thought I recall reading a couple days ago that one of the victims had just boarded the train at 30th St. Station -- just about 10 minutes earlier.  I'm sure the victims' families now wish all their loved ones had missed this train.  Painful times for sure.  And the only condolence we can offer the families is that their loved ones are now in a place where there are no more good-bye's to be had... only love.  But that doesn't make the immediate pain of their loss any less right now.

 

David 

That would certainly be a twist if this turned into a case of [domestic] terrorism.  Which is what it will turn into if they are bullet strikes.

 

And if I was being shot at I'm not sure I would be able to keep enough of my wits about me for a few seconds and could very well have tried to accelerate out of there rather than brake to stay in the line of fire longer.

"Don't start kicking "domestic terrorism" can down the road and the odds of him being shot at are slim. Even if he was, as engineer, and responsible for the lives of the passengers on board his train, his duty is to stay at the controls.  From what has been disclosed up to now my guess is he was distracted, realized his speed and panicked and put t in to emergency. We shall see.

Is it possible he accidently bumped the throttle when distracted, resulting in the speed inrcrease?  I have no idea how the ACS-64's (or any Amtrak engine's, for that matter) controls work or are laid out, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

Being a desk-top controller design, that is definitely a possibility.

I haven't been following the story to closely as there has been a lot of talk on the news and few facts, but maybe the engineer passed-out and the intentional increase in speed wasn't deliberate?

 

Jim

A perspective from a survivor:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...nt-my-own-mortality/

Per tonight's press conference, the NTSB had requested FBI participation in the investigation, possibly because of the reports of Projectiles hitting trains.

Interesting development 

Water,

I'm trying to find the release. The Acela had windshield damage also all within 24hr. One network released it...can't find the blasted thing the NTSB will release their findings.

I hope and assume they are looking around the area at where the train would have started speeding up to 100+MPH.

 

I found some links on Google that reference stories about this:

 

Google

I also wondered if the engineman might have been working the spare board. Throw in an irregular mix of earlys and lates and fatigue issues could be present.

Sad and tragic.  Many unanswered questions remain.

 

Whatever the outcome, unknown health issue, "projectile", whatever, this much is certain: The Engineer's life is ruined.