Skip to main content

Replies sorted oldest to newest

In the early 1950s , All-Nation acquired General Models, Atwater models and scale model railways to add to their manufacturing Line. General had an EMD switcher at the time and I think Atwater may have made an F style diesel. I think All Nation offered some small steam engine kits, a ten wheeler and an Atlantic which i thought traced their heritage to prewar Varney Offerings. Not sure how long they offered the locomotive kits

In your case, perhaps Atwater models was using some All nation parts prior to the buyout or perhaps what you have may have been Atwater inventory that All Nation was using up around the time of the acquisition. If you look at the paper work for addresses, dates ,etc it might relate the document to a time period giving you a bit more insight as to when the kit was packaged.

Atwater was the company that produced the dies in the late 1940s for the F units that became part of the All Nation Line.  They were well ahead of their time and many O Scale modelers still run them on their model railroads.  I have a few of my own.  The early castings have a small "Atwater" builders plate cast into their nose.  I would think that the All Nation Hobby Shop would have sold the "Atwater" castings until they ran out of them.

As far as Varney/General Models/All Nation/Babbitt steam loco kits go, there was a 4-4-0, 4-4-2, 4-6-0 (original Varney B&O Ten Wheeler from 1946/47), 2-6-0 (Babbitt era), 2-6-2 (Carey Boiler) 4-6-0 ( Carey Boiler), 4-6-2, 4-8-2 and a 2-6-6-4 that was offered during the Genereal Models period in the late 1940s early 1950s for a short time.  All of these models utilized the 70" Varney drivers and other parts.  Frames are all bar stock (usually steel) with spacer rivets and bronze bearings from the original Varney design.  The Mountain and the articulated have cast brass cylinders (probably Adams and Son) and the rest use the Varney Ten Wheeler cylinders, rods and valve gear.  Properly assembled they will outlive their builders and can be made into very smooth running locos.

BTS (Bill Wade) in West Virginia  purchased the steam loco line from Babbitt a few years ago but, up to now, has not offered anything from their inventory for sale.

These models in various finished forms and kits show up for sale with some frequency on ebay and usually sell for less than Babbitt was asking for their kits.  That was probably a problem for the owner of Babbitt and may be why BTS has been slow in offering these kits again.

I think there is a decent market for parts to keep these locos running but I am not sure about the need for new complete kits.  There aren't many people still building locos from kits or scratch anymore.  I would guess there are less than 100 folks in our hobby that are doing this today.

Information above is based on my knowledge of the All Nation Line from personal experience with their locos and reading Model Railroader mags from the late 1940s and 1950s.  Estimate of the quantity of loco builders today is strictly a guess on my part based on conversations with modelers at various O Scale meets around the country.

I will be finishing up my second All Nation 4-4-0 kit this summer.

Best to all,

Joe Foehrkolb

 

 

thank you steamer  thank you joe I now know twice as much as I knew before --it does help--now I'll be able to answer questions should they arise as I'm going to be selling them  if anyone would be interested in 9doors,5 B tops,1 B side,1 right side  & 3 left side A unit,2 1/2 trucks and 5 double thread assemblers--asking $20 + shipping -flat rate  18.95  best price as they weigh 11 lbs.  thanks again guys  much appreciated

The All Nation Hobby Shop was owned by O Scale Hall of Fame member Bob Colson. I'm not sure that they (All Nation) actually produced anything in house. They sold a lot of stuff like the Atwater/General Models diesels that ended up carrying their name, but were not actually their creations. If you are really interested in their stuff, dig up some back issues of the late "O Scale News 48/ft". Bob2 and Joe F. probably can add a bit to this.

Simon

PS: As of later years, the "All Nation Line" was owned by a gentleman named Bill Pope until he passed a few years back. Mr. Pope is also a member of the "O Scale Hall of Fame" as is our fellow forumite Joe Foehrkolb.

 

Last edited by Simon Winter

LOCO FRONTLOCO LEFT SIDELOCO RIGHT SIDETENDER LEFT SIDETENDER SAFETY TREADGentlemen,

I have a few All Nation locos, and they run more like a real steam engine than most spark trains in that, with the original open-frame motors, you have to give them a lot of throttle, then back off as the thing starts to move, or they will jackrabbit or spin the drivers.  As delivered, they aren't for rivet counters but, with effort and enjoyment, they are a good platform for remodeling. 

Here are a few shots of my GM Ten Wheeler, which I reworked extensively to represent an SP TW-10 (?).  Sadly, these shots are AFTER one of my cats knocked it off the piano, but you can see it's humble heritage if you look closely enough.

Lotsa grinding and fabbing, but I am pleased with the results.  The scratch-built Vandy tender houses a speaker and pickup for PFM SSII sound which, to me, is the best steam sound system ever produced.

 

Loves me some trains,

 

Mark in Modesto

Attachments

Images (5)
  • LOCO FRONT
  • LOCO LEFT SIDE
  • LOCO RIGHT SIDE
  • TENDER LEFT SIDE
  • TENDER SAFETY TREAD
Last edited by Mark in Modesto

I know I shouldn't spent the time but here is the correct story of the Atwater tooling.  In short, Atwater Models developed the F-3 tooling but ran out of money before marketing the product as his under floor powered trucks basically didn't work.  General Models which had been buying up other O scale lines in the 1946-1949 period, acquired the tooling and developed the well known power truck later marketed for many years by All Nation.  General Models sold many copies of the model (which still had "Atwater" engraved in the dies) and developed the F-7 variation before going bankrupt in late 1950 (due to a bad direct sales strategy and possibly an embezzlement).  Bob Colson bought the line from the bankruptcy auction in 1951 for his All Nation Hobby shop in Chicago.  Initially he intended only to sell off the remaining stock but Bozack (father of the current owner of Chicagoland hobbies) and others convinced Colson to restart manufacturing of the line which included the F units, diesel switcher, Varney derived steamers and many freight cars.  Colson produced the line through the early 1970's with many additions and improvements. Bill Pope then acquired the line and continued it until his death about 10 years ago.  Rumor is that the tooling is sitting in Pope son's barn rusting.

Slight addendum to the above.    Bill Pope sold off the steam line of kits in the 90s I think to a guy in Kentucky who named it Babbitt Loco works or something like that.    He upgraded the models with enclosed gear boxes (from PSC I think) and sprung drivers.    He also added a 2-6-0 to the line with a rolled brass boiler.    I don't how many of the loco kits were offered, but I have seen kits for the 4-6-0, 4-4-2, and the 4-6-2

This gentleman sold the line a few years ago (maybe 5) to I think BTS Car Shops.    The owner of that company had some serious medical problems shortly after buying the line and has not offered parts or kits for sale yet.   But he still mentions that he plans to on his website.   

So the dies and tools still at Pope's shop would be presumably for the diesels, freight, and passenger car kits.   I think Bill Pope bought the plans and dies for the Walthers passenger car kits when they got out of O Scale mfg.    Keil-line bought the molds for diecast parts from Walthers.    Keil and Pope worked together to market new kits from the Walthers tooling.  

Another addendum: the steamers went first to George Sennhouser, of Babbitt, Minnesota, and hence the new name.  The guy in Kentucky - Boyce Yates -  continued the line under the Babbitt name.  I did all his axle knurling, and he sent me spare parts.

This is an unforgiving business - it costs more to roll out a complete kit than it does to buy one on eBay, either kit or finished.  That is what happened to CLW, and it will continue to happen.  There is no future in paying money for dies, tools, or patents/copyrights.  I love the Walthers 9000- series passenger car kits, but they can be had in pristine condition for $25, or less than it would cost to pack the box in low quantities. That is why the Pope children will never find a buyer.  The stuff needs to be placed in an archive, with strict rules on who can use the fixtures and dies and how they are returned.  Not gonna happen.

Opinion.

Okay, you are someone, when is your first release?

Realistically, The 40s era stuff takes a lot of work to compete with the modern plastic and brass models.   The detail is just not there.    The walthers passenger cars can be made up into nice cars.    But the rivet detail is crude compared to the GGD plastic.     They do have the advantage of some specific models and GGD is limited to just a few.    On the other hand, how many modelers still want models of heavy weight passenger cars?   

The  All Nation line products, along with Max Gray brass played a critical role in keeping O Scale 2 rail alive during the 1950/60's.  The men that produced them deserve our respect and thanks.  But by today's standards of prototype fidelity and performance their models just can't compete with newer products in resin, brass, or even die cast.  Case in point being the incorrect nose contour on the Atwater/GMC/All Nation F units or the simple stamped brass hardware on many 1950's era kits and  imports.  From a prototype modelling perspective, the good old days weren't all that good - however model railroading was satisfying and fun.  IMO it is even more so today as we have far more choices on how to pursue  the hobby.

 

Last edited by Keystoned Ed

El Classico,

Golden Gate Depot's forthcoming release of 12 and 1 and 8-1-2 sleepers lists for $170 per car complete.

If you could purchase a Walthers kit for $25, add $40 or so for good trucks (GGD's 3 axle P/S ones are $50), decals at $5-10, lights @ $15, interior @ $30 +/-, paint, etc. Basically a GGD completely finished car costs the same as a complete Walthers kit.

I have built a number of Walthers cars and know I am slow compared to other builders, but I can figure at least 25-35 hours to completely finish a car to basically the same level of amenities as a GGD car.

A well known O scale passenger car builder charges about $600-650 for a completed O scale passenger car including ones built from Walthers kits. Are they "better" than GGD cars? In some respects definitely - at 4 times the price.

Personally, I much preferred JC Models kits over Walthers for their finer rivet detail but JC was rather limited in offerings compared to Walthers although they did offer a number of PRR, NYC, and N&W kits in addition to 12 and 1 cars.

And one choice, out of many, is to be a "doorstop" collector.  There are very few of us, and our models are very crude in comparison, but we are a happy bunch.  I would post a photo of a "doorstop" for you, but with just a little work, you can see many doorstop models, including well done Walthers cars, on another 2-rail forum that actually accepts my Photobucket images.

I sometimes wonder about folks with perfect layouts and three rail track.  They in turn wonder about my sanity, running sand- cast PAs and Mountains.  All in good fun.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×