I have bought three of Lionel latest steam engines and the blackened siderods do not look good. Has anyone been able to shine them up or paint them? Is it possible to use a wire dremal wheel the remove the black? Included are two pointless examples and one not.
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MDuppy posted:I have bought three of Lionel latest steam engines and the blackened siderods do not look good. Has anyone been able to shine them up or paint them? Is it possible to use a wire dremal wheel the remove the black?
Maybe, just maybe, the folks at Lionel are trying to make their scale sized steam locomotive models look more prototypical. Rarely were the side rods highly polished on the vast majority of work-a-day steam locomotive. Generally only the high priority passenger locomotives had polished rods.
MDuppy posted:I have bought three of Lionel latest steam engines and the blackened siderods do not look good. Has anyone been able to shine them up or paint them? Is it possible to use a wire dremal wheel the remove the black?
I partially agree with you, MDuppy. I just haven't gotten used to the new blackened side rods. If the engine is a reproduction, then maybe you can find the replacement parts from the original one.
Hot Water posted:MDuppy posted:I have bought three of Lionel latest steam engines and the blackened siderods do not look good. Has anyone been able to shine them up or paint them? Is it possible to use a wire dremal wheel the remove the black?
Maybe, just maybe, the folks at Lionel are trying to make their scale sized steam locomotive models look more prototypical. Rarely were the side rods highly polished on the vast majority of work-a-day steam locomotive. Generally only the high priority passenger locomotives had polished rods.
That makes sense, I guess I am used to the silver siderods.
I prefer the new look, for reasons HW mentioned.
Now I don't have to paint them anymore.
I also like the blackend side rods. It seems more prototypical for the majority of steam engines. Now, if they make a 20th Century Limited Dreyfuss Hudson with blackend side rods, then I will have a problem.
I think the locomotives pictured look great. Much more realistic this way.
Just my opinion.
I prefer the new look as well, much more prototypical.
I'm digging the black side rods. 3rd rail has been doing it since almost day one. I've been blackening the wheel shoes on most of my locomotives with a paint that matches the driver color. It gives a meaner/rugged look I think.
Here's my video of my New LEGACY 2-8-0 with blackened wheel shoe's
(did it right out of the box)
I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
Wow, the new side rods look great! Why would you want to go back?
The finish from what I've read from other manufacturers is typically black nickel. At least that's what it looks like to me.
I think it is a great look. Removing it to get shiny side rods will prove difficult and most likely ruin the surface. If you do want shiny side rods I would do what was suggested above and see if you can find the old (previous runs) part numbers and order them.
As an example - here's a TMCC ten wheeler: https://www.lionelsupport.com/...56-862b-4cf56c4098be
Another perfect example of how you cannot please everyone! "It's not prototypical enough for the money we pay," okay, blackened side rods to look like its prototypical cousins, then "the blackened siderods do not look good."
I realize these are black and white photos but I'm betting those side rods are not bright silver even the last one.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4342559
But hey, that's what makes this hobby and country great, we're all entitled to our opinions.
And, what's with Timmy?
Mike
ezmike posted:
And, what's with Timmy?
Mike
Typical.
If you want blackened side rods it pretty easy to do with any of the gun blue products out there or just paint them. As for brightening up blackened siderods it would depend on if they were painted or chemically blackened. Either way a dremel with a wire brush should get you close to bare metal then you can plate them. Also Naval Jelly rust remover will remove blueing. I use a Caswell brush plater to replate tin on post war restorations. I can also do nickel or copper. Pretty inexpensive and easy to do.
Pete
I like shiny. Probably because I grew up with them that way.
Jim 1939 posted:I like shiny. Probably because I grew up with them that way.
Same here. After all, they are toys.
Hancock52 posted:Jim 1939 posted:I like shiny. Probably because I grew up with them that way.
Same here. After all, they are toys.
Ahhhh, there it is! The answer to everything, during any/all of these discussions, i.e. "they are only toys.". Never mind some folks actually trying to learn something about the prototype.
"After all, they are toys."
No, they are not.
Good afternoon, my recent MTH Imperial engines have the side rods darkened and compared to my earlier railking steam engines the newer engines look more realistic.
Those shiny side rods on the earlier engines are just a bit to shiny.
Just my opinion.
Thank you for all you comments. I will leave them black thanks to Hot Waters info of the real thing.
D500 posted:"After all, they are toys."
No, they are not.
I agree they are not toys or at least mine are not. They are scale models.
I spend a lot of time making side rods black!! I have left my N&W J 611 and NYC Dreyfuss silver.
Making black rods silver??? A good lacquer paint maybe???
I view them as models myself, to call them toys seems to be selling them short. Personally I think the blackened rods look much better.
ezmike posted:Another perfect example of how you cannot please everyone! "It's not prototypical enough for the money we pay," okay, blackened side rods to look like its prototypical cousins, then "the blackened siderods do not look good."
I realize these are black and white photos but I'm betting those side rods are not bright silver even the last one.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=4342559
But hey, that's what makes this hobby and country great, we're all entitled to our opinions.
And, what's with Timmy?
Mike
I dont care what color the side rods are make a dam legacy mohawk l3 or l4..
I know it's not always prototypical, but I like the shiny rods and white wall look myself. Even so, I wouldn't want that look on every loco on the roster.
I usually paint my side rods black, but I leave some of them polished nickel silver. The difference is, mine are cast, and the nickel silver, even polished, does not have the artificial shine that the bright nickel plating gives the tinplate models.
If you want realistic looking "silver" rods, the best way is to apply some of that Model Master simulated polished steel paint. Even highly polished steel does not look like shiny nickel plate.
jojofry posted:I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
I will most likely do that, but I wont order it if the whistle is wrong.
Bruk posted:jojofry posted:I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
I will most likely do that, but I wont order it if the whistle is wrong.
How will you know the whistle is wrong, until after it arrives?
Hot Water posted:Bruk posted:jojofry posted:I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
I will most likely do that, but I wont order it if the whistle is wrong.
How will you know the whistle is wrong, until after it arrives?
YouTube!
yankspride4 posted:Hot Water posted:Bruk posted:jojofry posted:I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
I will most likely do that, but I wont order it if the whistle is wrong.
How will you know the whistle is wrong, until after it arrives?
YouTube!
You mean they post videos of Lionel steam locomotive models on YouTube, prior to their arrival, so folks can see & hear them?
Hot Water posted:yankspride4 posted:Hot Water posted:Bruk posted:jojofry posted:I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
I will most likely do that, but I wont order it if the whistle is wrong.
How will you know the whistle is wrong, until after it arrives?
YouTube!
You mean they post videos of Lionel steam locomotive models on YouTube, prior to their arrival, so folks can see & hear them?
Given that Bruk said he wasn't going to order the loco if the whistle was incorrect, I think it is fair to say that he does not have a pre-order in for it. Therefore, I made the leap of faith that he is waiting to see a video before plunking down the cash.
That being said, Mike Reagan has posted many instructional videos on new items prior to their arrival to dealers. The H7 and Lima Berks come to mind.
I seem to also remember that Lionel put a sneek preview of the VL Big Boy well before they arrived in December 2014.
But back to the OP, keep those rods grimy looking. Expecially a workhorse Consolidation. My MTH LIRR H10 nas blackened siderods look great!
Well Ron, it sure would have been nice if SOMEBODY had uploaded YouTube videos of the new Lionel "optional" UP FEF-3 4-8-4 #838 that was supposed to have the Sellers Exhaust Steam Feedwater System, before all the pre-orders.
Hot Water posted:Well Ron, it sure would have been nice if SOMEBODY had uploaded YouTube videos of the new Lionel "optional" UP FEF-3 4-8-4 #838 that was supposed to have the Sellers Exhaust Steam Feedwater System, before all the pre-orders.
I'd be happy to make a video for each of Lionel's new releases if they send me production samples to use. ��
Hot Water posted:Well Ron, it sure would have been nice if SOMEBODY had uploaded YouTube videos of the new Lionel "optional" UP FEF-3 4-8-4 #838 that was supposed to have the Sellers Exhaust Steam Feedwater System, before all the pre-orders.
Don't play the pre-order game. Watch the shipping schedule, monitor the forum posts by dealers for arrivals, look for videos and photos just after delivery, and make your decision.
There seems to be plenty of stock of all these new "Built To Order" items from Lionel. Charlie has had ES44's and the Empire State Express on Clearance since they arrived.
yankspride4 posted:Hot Water posted:yankspride4 posted:Hot Water posted:Bruk posted:jojofry posted:I hope they do this on the new gs4 with the black wheels .. It might actually look like the real engine ..
I will most likely do that, but I wont order it if the whistle is wrong.
How will you know the whistle is wrong, until after it arrives?
YouTube!
You mean they post videos of Lionel steam locomotive models on YouTube, prior to their arrival, so folks can see & hear them?
Given that Bruk said he wasn't going to order the loco if the whistle was incorrect, I think it is fair to say that he does not have a pre-order in for it. Therefore, I made the leap of faith that he is waiting to see a video before plunking down the cash.
That being said, Mike Reagan has posted many instructional videos on new items prior to their arrival to dealers. The H7 and Lima Berks come to mind.
I seem to also remember that Lionel put a sneek preview of the VL Big Boy well before they arrived in December 2014.
But back to the OP, keep those rods grimy looking. Expecially a workhorse Consolidation. My MTH LIRR H10 nas blackened siderods look great!
I do have one on order from my local store/former boss. Lionel released the sounds on their website under the product info... I heard it, wasn't happy. I live here in the Seattle area of Washington. We are fans of the 4449. Was the first steam engine I ever saw. We have been waiting for Lionel to do a GS4 with the 4449 number. They finally do, and the whistle is wrong. I told my former boss about it he wasn't happy...Owner of the store contacted certain people in Lionel. (you may know) and we have defiantly stirred the S**t pot....so it might be corrected. you never know.
I can't say that I was enthused about the new version rods when I first heard about them but now I actually have my 8444 FEF3 I have come around to the change. However I'd think twice before ordering another steamer with these as the "look" might not appeal - especially as I and those visitors I inflict my train demos on prefer to see steam engine running gear clearly in motion.
The rods on the 8444 are not actually pure black. Below is a comparison of them with those on the original issue Legacy FEF3s, in this case the 844 Greyhound version:
For good measure here's a comparison of the new Lionel 8444 with the fine 3rd Rail black 844 made a few years ago:
I have to admit that before now it never occurred to me that the original version side rods really don't look like polished steel. In that connection, I don't remember whose picture the below is but (a) I thank him for it and (b) it's a great illustration of the prototype vs. a model and in particular what the polished steel looks like when cleaned to perfection:
D500 posted:"After all, they are toys."
No, they are not.
THREE rails with a scale gauge of FIVE feet? I am sorry but yes, these items you are referring to are indeed toys. ALL model trains are TOYS! That said, the necessary skills and discipline of applying "Proto 48" standards to locomotives, equipment and track are a requirement for the term "Scale Models" to be applied for them to be true 1/4" to the foot scale models.
And that's ignoring A&B sided two part molded on details of diecast representations being referred to as "scale". Back, over EIGHTY years ago (yup 81!!) in 1937 and on that 700E at that time; yes. But not now and not for quite some time. Brass models killed that measure of values when set in the 1950's by Max Gray himself and later when Levon Kemalyan took over during the early 1960's with U.S. Hobbies (He also ran KEMTRON) things changed. For one, the real and actual Lionel concurrently died. I was there and I remember.
NOW: IF one chooses to remove the black-nickel plating on rods/valve gear, a scotch bright pad will quickly do the trick (with some elbow grease of course). THEN a trip to a local plater (provided you can find one any more, --thanks EPA!) for a dip in the copper and then bright nickel tanks will be a necessity.
I personally believe dark nickel (that's the actual name) enhances the motion of most electrically driven models, but not so in live steam. Steam railroading was filthy, period. Only the "Varnish" (name trains) warranted the cleaning of locomotives after each run or two. The rods and valve gear on those locomotives were oiled steel and never bright plated. The rest of the motive power had the normally accumulated soot and oil mixed together covering everything and darkening the smoothest of steel rods and motion.
But many live steam models are maintained as were the crack Limited's locomotives as and when they appeared at their peak of their importance and cleanliness (as depicted with the attached photos) .
The third, color image (with actual Humans included for scale reference purposes only,) displays a New York Central J3a Hudson, one of the Icons perhaps the Epitome of "Steam Locomotive" (that sure seems to be the case as these things were built in every single scale, as toys, as museum display models etc., etc.) This particular locomotive has nice and shiny stainless steel rods and motion. Not bad for something made some 55+ years ago, that stuff is a ***** to machine!
Also, that fellow in the blue shirt seen looking at said Hudson, actually produces the world's best replica steam locomotive ever produced, bar none.
Regardless of scale, or prototype, Jim Kreider's Nickle Plate Berkshire kit builds into what is without question, the finest replica ever, of any steam locomotive on Earth, or any other planets as well. Even the tapered steel boiler under the jacketing is a scale model. Working air brakes, working Worthington feedwater heater and turbine pump, steam power reverse, all of it to scale, inside and out. It makes anyone and everyone who claims to be a choo choo train fan and who don't own one just plain sick and green with envy.
That last image is a pair of such beasts taken at Train Mountain some 12 years ago! So no matter how many Lionel Vision (or blind) locomotives, or Weaver or Sunset 3rd Rail or MTH diecast pot metal trains you got, well they just don't count as they're just toys after all. IF you doubt me in any way, simply Google Images Jim Kreider Berkshire. Those Berkshire things, I'm not sure what they be --but they ain't no toys.
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