Bus vs. Train Biloxi Incident today

From CNN: Here

An eye witness to the crash told the Biloxi Sun Herald that the bus had been stuck at a railroad crossing in downtown Biloxi for five to 10 minutes when the train hit it. Some passengers had been getting off of the bus when the collision happened...

I thought there was a ph number at the crossing you could call in in case of an emergency.

I read where, at the crossing, the road humps over the tracks, causing longer vehicles to get hung up.  

Some bus vehicles have a peculiarity. If the front and rearmost wheels are in contact with the ground and there is a grade that causes the foward set of rear tires to lift, the transmission disengages. Some tractors have the same peculiarity. The vehicle does not necessarily have to "scrape" on a "hump". I have driven both classes of vehicle with this problem. Curiously, the mandate to "come to a complete stop" can result in a safety issue with vehicles having this shortfall.

So, are we going to have a law that says trucks or buses are prohibited from crossing crossings that have low clearance warnings?  My thoughts are with the crew that had 10 seconds or more to watch something terrible unfold that they could do absolutely nothing about to prevent.  The only microscopic silver lining is that a husband and wife died together so neither will have to go through the pain of being the survivor.

Tommy posted:

Some bus vehicles have a peculiarity. If the front and rearmost wheels are in contact with the ground and there is a grade that causes the foward set of rear tires to lift, the transmission disengages. Some tractors have the same peculiarity. The vehicle does not necessarily have to "scrape" on a "hump". I have driven both classes of vehicle with this problem. Curiously, the mandate to "come to a complete stop" can result in a safety issue with vehicles having this shortfall.

Tommy, there is no " peculiarity" about those vehicles, and the transmission is NOT disengaging. What is happening is when the front axle and the rear axle are bridging the high spots, the center drive axle can lose complete, or enough contact with the ground, that it does not have enough traction to propel the vehicle, the transmission is still engaged, the wheels are just spinning uselessly, as if the drive axle is jacked up off the ground. In this scenario, rather than the axle being jacked off the ground, the ground has simply dropped out from under the powered axle.

  I have been a truck driver for more than 28 years, and two of my regular customers have driveways that I lock in the inter-axle power divider, when I get there. If I forget to interlock the axles, and I hit the driveway just right(or rather WRONG) I end up in that very situation, and I look pretty silly . while I let the axle stop, so I can lock in the power divider. Locking in the power divider without letting the spinning axle stop first, can cause all sorts of damage, such as broken ring & Pinion gears or a twisted driveline, either of which are rather difficult to explain to the Boss.

 While it could be POSSIBLE for the drive axle on this bus to have been unloaded enough to lose traction, it is MUCH more likely that it drug it's belly, got high centered and stuck, being struck in the middle of the Bus supports that conclusion. If it was a matter of the drive axle losing traction from the other two axles bridging high spots, the bus most likely would have been struck near the rear of the vehicle, not further forward as it was.

Doug

28+ years and 2,500,000+ miles of moving America's freight from Point "A" to Point "B"

Thank you very much Doug, for your clear explanation of the problem I outlined. I got stuck on a very minor incline to a crossing many years ago.

You're Welcome, the problem with most(all?) 3 axle busses( two rear axles) is that on all the busses that I have seen one of the rear axles is just a tag(unpowered) axle, where the driver does not have the option of locking a power divider. Some 3 axle tractors are the same, but at least here out West it is not very common. We do see some straight trucks out here that use an unpowered drop axle for extra weight carrying capacity, but at least those have the ability to lift the extra axle, to load the drive axle for traction when needed.

Doug

Paul, maybe law enforcement taking pictures?

BobbyD posted:

Paul, maybe law enforcement taking pictures?

Or CSX official with crashes. For some reason there taking a picture of the rest of the train or towards the area of impact. I can not see the crew letting anyone else on the cab of there engine. 

willygee posted:

I thought there was a ph number at the crossing you could call in in case of an emergency.

Willy,
There probably was. I know that ph. nos. are on the gate poles around here. However, the thing is, how many people know that? I have never seen a public service announcement on TV that would try to educate the public to the fact!

Also, one would think that it should be SOP to evacuate the passengers on the bus to a safe area as soon as the bus got stuck.

I live in Biloxi.  In January a Pepsi truck got stuck at this same crossing and was hit by a train.  Its a locally known problem crossing with 16 accidents since 1976.  I work at Keesler Medical Center (Keesler Air Force Base) and while we did not receive casualties we did send medics to the scene and surgeons to the local hospital to assist. I was told that those killed (4) and the most seriously injured were trying to exit the bus when the train hit the bus. At least one person was pinned under the bus and train and dragged three blocks. I have avoided that area since the accident because they have been doing accident reconstruction but will swing by there today. Eye witnesses say the crossing lights were working and the gate came down on the bus.  The city was already studying this crossing (and others in the city) to either close or re-work because we are trying to get Amtrak's Sunset Limited running back along the Gulf Coast from New Orleans. This particular train was running freight between New Orleans and Mobile.  BTW, Biloxi is in Mississippi (MS) not Michigan (MI). 

The phone number location and evacuating a car stuck on a crossing (even more so a bus) are slides for Operation Lifesaver.  Did the driver of the bus take the course recently?  However, because this an "over the road" coach with steps, and only one door, it is card to evacuate quickly.

One picture I saw showed the ENS blue sign on the pole that was knocked down. it has all the info necessary. I thought they did a large awareness on the news after the Amtrak train hit the oversized truck in GA. The police didn't call in that case either.

Yes if they had just called the phone number on the sign.......

I would imagine the bus driver was very busy, and distracted, trying to get the people off the bus.  anyone should have called the number.  

Calling the posted phone number helps but in some recent cases the train crew still could not avoid the collision. It takes a LONG time to stop a train!

Incredibly, a Greyhound bus attempted to cross the railroad at this crossing just this morning !  Biloxi PD patrol car just happened to be at the crossing and stopped the bus before it reached the crest of the crossing.  This afternoon the City put up signage "No Trucks, Buses, RVs" along with the universal "no truck" image sign with the slash mark through it. Prior to the accident CSX had already posted signage warning of the low clearance along with an image of a long axle truck stuck on the railroad.  

As a person who had a job in charlotte nc.I crossed railroad track that had warning signs.And truck still got stuck.On my way home from work.I saw a truck that had the trailers footing embedded in the road.There was a city police there to and a big wrecker.I saw this a few times.I do not know what the deal is about those crossing.Because any body could see that those crossing were bad news for big trucks.BTW this is a track that goes beside graham street in charlotte.