Conductive Lubricating Oils ?

I use this on rollers,premiere axle bushings as power travels through them and can motor bushings.

Neo-Lube.....google

I use these, when I can get them:

Kroil from Kano Labs (not meant to be electrically conductive, but seems to help anyway). Looks, smells, & feels just like “Rail Zip” from Pacer, which is also great.

DeOxIt from Caig, comes in spray or small bottle with alternate needle applicator cap (I use the bottle, it’s less messy).

Never-Stall from Daylight Distributors. Great stuff, comes in small tube with needle applicator.

I also use WD40 which came in a carded magic marker-like applicator pen, but they discontinued it. Had I known, I would have bought several more packages.

Bill in FtL

That stuff may be good house on the joints of pantographs that are wired to collect power from overhead wires.  

Most very thin oils are conductive.  I mix 50/50 99% alcohol (Amazon) with Zoom oil (because of it's high vapor pressure, so it's extremely slow to evaporate). You need so little that the alcohol is just a thinning/carrier agent that evaporates right off, (if using 99%), leaving just enough oil.  I give it a quick shake when I use it. 

I thought that LaBelle was conductive based on some videos??

Does Atlas still offer "Conduct-A-Lube"?

Hot Water posted:

Does Atlas still offer "Conduct-A-Lube"?

I asked Bill Seratelli at York that very question and he said they do though I haven't seen it offered in a while. Its the only product I have used for this.

Pete

Dan Padova posted:

That stuff may be good house on the joints of pantographs that are wired to collect power from overhead wires.  

I immediately thought the same thing.  I will have a bottle on the way shortly.

https://www.micromark.com/Neolube-2-fl-oz-

Jack,  I think Tom sells it.  At least I hope so because Rich going there today to buy 3 bottles.

I have used Neolube, Caig Labs Cailube MCL, and  Cailube MCL grease. The Caig Labs products were renamed is now called Deoxit Faderlube and Fadergrease.

The Neolube is graphite in a "thermoplastic resin". One time I accidentally bonded to pieces together with it.

Bachmann sells conductive oil.  That's what I use.  I haven't run any analytical tests, but I'll take them on face value.  After all, they used to be an American company.

Alan

SantaFeJim posted:

Jack,  I think Tom sells it.  At least I hope so because Rich going there today to buy 3 bottles.

Jim,

I think Tom stopped handling it, since it was so expensive. He carries another brand (Bachmann?) now, and he says it works just as well as the Atlas product, and is a LOT less expensive.

I just ordered the Atlas, Bachmann and the Never Stall products, I hope to find one I like and order more. In todays world, I find when you do your homework, test and find a product you like, grab extra, because by tomorrow it may be "discontinued".  Thanks for all the responses and input.

RWDeano

Mike Wyatt posted:

I thought that LaBelle was conductive based on some videos??

That’s what I use. Works great and is readily available. Thanks for posting Mike.

I use CRC 2-26 on my pickup rollers. Also used in that application upon my recommendation at a local museum that has continuous operations with out issue. An added bonus is that it is available at the local bog box stores.

I use Bachmanns EZ Lube conductive oil.

Oil is not conductive unless a conductive material is put in it. Like maybe graphite, aluminum, or copper. I don't know what is in the "conductive oil" by some of the train product companies. I would stick a couple of Ohmmeter probes in it about a 1/10 inch apart and measure the "conductivity" just for grins. The contact cleaners like Caig, CRC, Wurth and so forth are just cleaners, most with a tiny percentage of oil, which will remain after the cleaner evaporates. The oil is very thin and helps to prevent the contacts from oxidizing and also lubricates the moving parts. I just use a thin synthetic oil on the roller pins and have never had any contact issues. The thin oil is displaced and the metal to metal is restored under pressure while the oil lubricates the pins on the non pressure side.

BTW, a friend who is on N gauge wipes his track with WD40 used very sparingly on a piece cloth. He used to use alcohol and had contact issues after a week or so. When he used the WD40, he ceased to have any contact issues. And has no conductivity issues. We think the issue before was oxidation of the rail tops.

Waddy posted:

Most very thin oils are conductive.  I mix 50/50 99% alcohol (Amazon) with Zoom oil (because of it's high vapor pressure, so it's extremely slow to evaporate). You need so little that the alcohol is just a thinning/carrier agent that evaporates right off, (if using 99%), leaving just enough oil.  I give it a quick shake when I use it. 

I can't contribute to the main question, but maybe I can head off some minor confusion:

High vapor pressure means something evaporates rapidly, not slowly. Presumably, the high vapor pressure alcohols evaporates quickly, leaving the well-distributed low vapor pressure oil behind.

Also, it's a fact that pure water is a very poor conductor; it takes a smidge of dissolved salt or some such ionic solute to render it conductive. Similarly, for oil, except it is a lot trickier to get an ionic solute to dissolve in the oil. There are large, nonpolar "organic" ionic compounds known--I too have always wondered how alleged conductive or dielectric lubricants work; if they're not total hype, I assume it must involve some such stuff.

I too would be interested if someone would stick their multi-meter probes (in resistance mode) into some dielectric grease and report their findings.

Are any of these safe to use on can motor brushes?  I don’t know if they need to be cleaned or lubed but they squeak. 

Gentlemen,

Wahl Hair Clipper Oil. Simply the best and easiest to use.

Dick

"High vapor pressure means something evaporates rapidly, not slowly. Presumably, the high vapor pressure alcohols evaporates quickly, leaving the well-distributed low vapor pressure oil behind."

Yes, I meant to say Zoom oil has a low vapor pressure, alcohol a high vapor pressure.

But any thin oil will work on rollers. 

SES posted:

I too would be interested if someone would stick their multi-meter probes (in resistance mode) into some dielectric grease and report their findings.

If it's truly dielectric, it should read infinity ohms or something approaching infinity.

Are any of these safe to use on can motor brushes?  I don’t know if they need to be cleaned or lubed but they squeak. 

First, I must state that I do not lubricate brushes.
I've done some research on the web, and almost everything I've read says that modern brushes are self lubricating.
One group that does tend to lubricate brushes are slot car enthusiasts.

That written, check out the Caig website. They recommend using one of their many products to lubricate brushes / commutators.
I use many of their products working on trains and 1970's stereo equipment.

I've copied (in quotes) below the tail end of an extensive presentation on the subject that Google turned up. The guy has a ring of authoritativeness, to me. The take-home message seems to be that greases used on electrical connections are never intended to be conductive themselves, but rather to protect the connections from corrosion WHILE being sufficiently easily enough squeezed out of the intended contact area to allow good metal-metal contact. The claim that the metal powder in "conductive grease" leaves a helpful film of conductive metal particles in the contact zone is dubious, and adding any additional metal to the contact zone is inviting corrosion trouble if it does not perfectly match the metal composing the contacts. All greases are inherently "dielectric", or insulating; the goal is to use something that will stay in place and not melt, flow away, wick into insulation materials, volatilize, or otherwise be a fire hazard, yet is squeezable out. Silicone grease seems to be the good stuff.    

"One incorrect logic is the "dielectric" in "dielectric grease" means the grease should only be used to insulate. All greases work by the low viscosity allowing the grease to completely push out of areas with metal-to-metal contact. Dielectric grease is just better at holding off high voltages over long paths.

Conductive Grease

Conductive greases and anti-seize compounds have a suspended base metal powder. The suspended metal powder is a fraction of the area occupied by insulating grease, and so the grease still insulates the connection. The grease does not conduct.

The working theory of "conductive" grease is when pressure is applied, the grease squeezes out of the way. This leaves a fine metal powder that theoretically pierces oxides or fills voids. Using aluminum and copper blocks with various surface conditions, I've never been able to actually verify connection improvement from specialized conductive greases. In my tests, it appeared the grease simply carried most of the suspended powder away. Any remaining powder has never been enough to reliably reduce voltage drop across clamped connections. The change in voltage drop has always been indefinable, even with careful repeats of clamping pressure. I'd appreciate anyone having useful data sending me a copy.  

The suspended powder creates a problem that does not exist with dielectric grease. The suspended metal must be fully compatible with the metals being clamped. This means conductive grease is application specific. If the metals being clamped are incompatible with the grease's suspended metal powder, the connection will eventually fail. This is what happened in our CATV system connectors. The connections were a mix of copper, aluminum, and steel. The cable shields were aluminum, the trunk center conductors cables were copper clad aluminum. Drop cables were aluminum shields and connectors, with copper clad steel centers. Our records showed a much higher incidence of corrosion failure using conductive grease. Corrosion failure rate dropped significantly, almost to zero, when we switched to pure dielectric grease.

In bolted or clamped connections,  I have no opinion if conductive greases help or are necessary. I feel like they help, but I'm not sure if that is true. I use Noalox on clamped aluminum slip joints in antennas because it is generally less expensive than silicone dielectric greases and it appears to last longer. I NEVER use conductive greases on push fit electrical connectors, or if I am unsure of metal to grease compatibility.  

Conductive greases should specifically match materials being clamped. Conductive greases should never be used in low pressure electrical connectors, or in connectors with multiple terminals. Conductive greases should only be used in connections that are well-isolated from connections with differing voltages, and never in high voltage connections. They never belong in RF or signal connectors, unless they are bolted connections and the material compatible grease does not bridge insulation."

This is what I use in all my rolling stock and engines and is all conductive. You can order it from Megasteam. http://megasteam.com

Gentlemen,

   I still use the Red & Tacky and the CRC and the Lionel oil.  Depending on what area needs lubricated at the time.

PCRR/Dave

Tanner111 posted:

Are any of these safe to use on can motor brushes?  I don’t know if they need to be cleaned or lubed but they squeak. 

There are several cleaners(removes brush material between commutator bars) and lubricants(for end bushings) for brushed motors. A web search will reveal much information.

The black material on the commutator, and in the slots, is a mixture of the graphite, used to make the brushes, and what ever oil managed to work its way onto the commutator. This material should be removed mechanically, as Lionel recommended.  Wipe the commutator surface clean with a rag and clean the slots with a toothpick. Under the commutator is a felt pad.  If solvents are used to clean the commutator, it will carry this oil/graphite mixture into the felt pad making it conductive. If this happens the motor will become less efficient and run hotter. If a solvent is needed, put it on the rag and wipe the commutator clean that way.

Lots of brushs squeak. Most of my experience is with larger motors, and they really squeak. About the only thing you can do is try different brushes, polish the commutator, change the brush spring tension, or increase the ambient relative humidity. The brushes are made out of graphite, which is a lubricant.  No additional lubricant should be used. Good commutation is hard to achieve and I do not think postwar Lionel did very well at getting good commutation.