Getting my feet wet in HO

I would go with Athearn since MTH is closing (no word on if someone will buy the company), while both Athearn and SoundTraxx (the maker of the DCC/sound decoder) are both alive and well.

Both of them will run on DC, but with limited control of the sounds.

Stuart

I have just start with HO as I acquired some HO Lionel.  Never had any before this but I am removing a part of the layout so the kids can have a hangout space in the basement.  After what I have seen so far, I may go more the older Lionel HO items as they made a number of smaller versions of their popular postwar items.

The MTH will run from DCS, DCC, AC or DC power. My son has two MTH HO SD70ACe, the Athearn will only run on DCC or DC power. The only HO steam engines with smoke are Broadway Limited and MTH, there is so much to choose from. If your not a rivet counter, the best bang for your buck in HO engines are Bachmann DCC ready. Plug a 8 pin sound decoder in, solder two speaker wires to the speaker of your choice and it runs smooth and the sound is amazing.

If you're a DCC guy, I would agree with what's already been said. But HO has a rich history, so there's a ton of great pre-DCC stuff that might be worth your looking into....FWIW.

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

If you're a DCC guy, I would agree with what's already been said. But HO has a rich history, so there's a ton of great pre-DCC stuff that might be worth your looking into....FWIW.

Mark in Oregon

I may get the Athearn UP Spirit of the UP, too good of a price to pass up for an engine I love.

Can you all recommend a beginner DCC system, something with room to grow?

The HO "purists" don't like the MTH version of the SD70Ace because they are afraid of DCS.  However, some have commented that the Metal handrails that MTH uses are better than Athearns plastic.

Second hand market is good as there's always those who are selling a 5 - 10 year old model for the more current release.

@hirailsteve posted:

I may get the Athearn UP Spirit of the UP, too good of a price to pass up for an engine I love.

Can you all recommend a beginner DCC system, something with room to grow?

Go to www.trainworld.com and see if they still the MRC prodigy elite 10 amp system for $299.99. We have one and it has the room to grow up to 9,999 engines, and put out 10 amps. I use it for HO, S and O. You can set the max output from 1 to 10 amps, has program track only wires. You can program on the program track or mainline track, add up to 10 handheld remotes.

Bachmann #00826 Thunder Chief Set With Digital Sound.

The Bachmann set is a good low cost option to appreciate HO.

I prefer Atlas or Athearn diesel locomotives.

In my HO locomotive history, I've found Athearn has more detailed locomotives but slightly finicky performance. Atlas hasn't been as ultra detailed, but they've been heavier and more reliable performers. I've tried MTH, and remember it being a decent weight with good details and nice performance. But as a caveat, I'm strictly DC without sound.

For a beginning DCC system, I highly recommend the NCE Power Cab starter set:

https://www.ncedcc.com/online-...wer-Supply-p38322079

NCE has a very well-thoughtout system that is logical and easily expandable.  Plus the controller is vert user friendly.  The starter set (above) can be found for a street price of around $160 and it is easily expandable as your HO railroad empire grows.

If you buy a MTH HO item then it dies. You are better off gutting it and installing something better like ESU or WowSounds

I am well pleased with the MTH HO engines.  I just bought another one while I could still get one, as I'm set up to use their Remote Commander.

@SPSF posted:

The HO "purists" don't like the MTH version of the SD70Ace because they are afraid of DCS.  However, some have commented that the Metal handrails that MTH uses are better than Athearns plastic.

Second hand market is good as there's always those who are selling a 5 - 10 year old model for the more current release.

As a so called “HO ‘purist’”, I dislike MTH for different reasons. The first runs of ACes had horrid decoders, known to fry very quickly. MTH DCS is only slightly compatible with DCC. 95% of the “decoder’s” CVs cannot be read nor changed without a DCS system. Most of us own more than just MTH HO, therefore we won’t buy DCS as we cannot use it with standard DCC locomotives.

On another note, MTH HO is not as detailed as many counterparts. The Genesis line is the way to go if one wishes to own a very nice and accurate SD70 series locomotive. If you want other high-quality HO locomotives, my recommendation is to check out ScaleTrains, Rapido, InterMountain, Athearn Genesis 2.0, as well as the up and coming Aurora Miniature Co. All use NRMA compliant DCC decoders that can be used with any system.

As for what system to use, I started out with an NCE PowerCab starter set (commonly found for $150). This past summer Ive started to expand it with the 5 amp boosters and JMRI bridge and I have zero regrets.

Concerning DCC decoders themselves, two main manufacturers along with a lesser known one are the primary distributors. ESU and Digitrax are well known names in the hobby. ESU is commonly seen as the better of the two, but it’s personal preference. Note, MTH HO PS3 decoders are not exactly compatible with these unless sever reprogramming is done using a DCS system.

As I said, I’ve converted my entire HO roster to DCC (50/50 mix of ESU and Digitrax). Most of my roster consists of Athearn Genesis and ScaleTrains Rivet Counter. Although pricy, they’re the best models on the HO market, detail and reliability wise.

Hopefully ive been able to clear some stuff up.

I recently did the "switch" over to HO and bought NCE for my DCC setup and its really fantastic. Super easy to use and understand, especially for myself being kind of a newbie. Plus, price wise you can't beat it, $150 to get started with DCC is a no brainer. I will say, if you plan on buying anything HO, look into

https://yankeedabbler.com/dcc-...usVu_ORoCapQQAvD_BwE

Yankee Dabbler is a great store based out of NJ, they also do custom DCC installs. The guys at the store did mention to me to kinda steer away from MTH as a lot of there decorders aren't the greatest and develop issues. Hope this helps

Here's my 0-8-0 on my friends layout stretching her legs for the first time after having sound and decorder installed by Yankee Dabbler. I can not say enough good things about that store and there quality of work.

Johnathan-

If you like European trains, don't rule out Marklin. The quality is truly world class and the system is clear and easy to use. They offer some US prototype as well.

Hi Steve:

Welcome to the wonderful world of HO.

My take on your question.  There is nothing to fear regarding the MTH SD70ACe locomotive.  I know two "HO Purists" that purchased the MTH product, and are very complimentary of them.  The metal handrails are a big plus.  One even went so far as to put operating cooling fans into his (he is a retired EMD design engineer / manager).  I believe both of them did change out the MTH decoder (dual mode, DCC or DCS) with SoundTrax Tsunami 2 decoders, which were state of the art sound decoders when the MTH ACe was first released.

Current state of the art for DCC decoders, in my opinion, are either the LokSound 5, or the TCS WOW series.  I have standardized on LokSound for my diesels, and TCS WOW for my steam.  I haven't changed everything yet, but as other decoders fail, or I upgrade, that is what I am going with.

I wouldn't touch the DCS system for HO, and it was one of three big reasons that I bailed on my three rail scale modeling six plus years ago, and decided to stick with HO, which I have been playing / modeling in since age three.

Nothing wrong with the Athearn product, except the first run ACe locomotives did suffer with poor handrails.  I think the later releases have improvements, but you should check with your local hobby shop, or Athearn direct.  I model 1952, so I have no direct experience with this locomotive, except in my day job (one reason I do NOT model modern era).

To answer your second question, yes, you can run either the Athearn or MTH with a conventional throttle.  You had a recommendation to go with NCE Powercab for a control system, and I would second that endorsement.  I'm a 26 year user of NCE technology.  The owner, Jim Scorce, is an O scale modeler, and posts occasionally in the two rail forum.  I have old NCE (and Wangrow, which were the same) throttles, and a power supply that are still my original purchases.  I've since purchased a lot more later production NCE, particularly NCE Master Cabs with radio.

Regards,

Jerry

Hey Jerry, I was considering buying a MTH HO locomotive that I saw on sale for $80. It is DCC Ready. Can you recommend a sound decoder for that locomotive? I have read that the MTH DCC Ready locomotives have a NMRA 8 Pin plug. Will this make it easier to install a sound decoder?

Jerry, one other question: Do you or any of your HO friends have an opinion on Lionel HO?

Johnathan, thanks for your recommendation. I live about 1 hour from that store. Back in the '80s I bought an Atlas RS1. I got lucky as it was one of the ones with a Kato drive system. I remember it being expensive for back costing $60 but it always ran great under DC. I would love to add sound and DCC. I have considered doing it myself but maybe I will contact your guy.

@Hudson J1e posted:

Johnathan, thanks for your recommendation. I live about 1 hour from that store. Back in the '80s I bought an Atlas RS1. I got lucky as it was one of the ones with a Kato drive system. I remember it being expensive for back costing $60 but it always ran great under DC. I would love to add sound and DCC. I have considered doing it myself but maybe I will contact your guy.

Your very welcome Phil, the technician at Yankee Dabbler is Bruce. He is without a doubt fantastic at what he does and goes above and beyond to make sure your happy with your install. I can't say enough good things about them and there services. They also have NCE for a steal of a price as I just checked a few days ago for a friend of mine also getting his feet wet with DCC. Good luck, keep us posted on your progress.

Johnathan-

Thanks a lot Johnathan. I will try to get there some time soon.

Hi Phil:

Good to hear from you, hope your O scale modeling isn't suffering from your "excursion" into HO. 

Decoder recommendations - I am a BIG fan of the LokSound decoders for diesels.  That is the decoder I have standardized on, as have others.  I just got two Walthers Proto2000 GP7s with the LokSound 5 decoder, and in this case, the sounds are nothing short of awesome.  They "Sweat the details" on the decoders that a lifelong EMD employee with 30 plus years of service experience notices.   Not too familiar with the decoder sounds for modern diesels, but based on feedback from others, you can't go wrong with LokSound.  Any of my modeling friends that are daytime railroaders are all using LokSound across the whole spectrum of product.  I also have one friend that uses TCS, and his ALCOs run and sound great also.  I standardized on TCS for steam.  

Most modern decoders have 21 pin connectors, but you have a recommendation to talk to the folks at Yankee Dabbler.  They would be better able to guide you on the best decoder to use for the MTH SD70ACe.

Also echo your comments on the Atlas product.  I have two of the older Atlas locos, an RS-2 and a GP7.  While not quite the same par as the latest plastic diesles out there in terms of detail and paint quality, the Kato drives are by far the best to this day.  I'm going to drop sound decoders into both of mine (they have older NCE D102s in them now), and continue to use them every operating session.

Regards,

Jerry

I may venture over too at some point but the nearest club with a layout is almost an hour from here. I belong to a 3 rail O gauge club that takes most of my time. Have a few MTH pieces including a beautiful UP Alco PA set with an extra B unit that I would be willing to let go cheap as I don't run the PAs' with the 2nd B unit. These have PS3 sound AND smoke that is actually decent. Shoot me an email (in profile) if interested in trying a MTH powered unit at a great price.

Jerry, good to hear from you too.  

I am going to take your advice on the decoder. Unfortunately, my O scale modeling has been suffering for a long time but not due to HO. Mostly due to Covid and house projects. I want to build a micro layout in HO so I can get some modeling in while I can’t work on the O scale. I had considered S scale but all I have in S is a couple of boxcars but in HO I have locomotives (just 3 or 4) and a bunch of cars, track and power packs. So HO it is. My plan is to recreate the trains I saw as a teenager when I first moved to NJ. Those trains were small freights usually led by a Conrail GP9 or GP7. Not sure which. Sometimes I saw GP38-2s and only once I saw a very large black engine with a PC on it. It might have been a GG1 or something that looks like it but I was so shocked to see it as a kid I am not really sure what it was. The line was electrified back then and I believe the black locomotive had pantographs.

Anyway, I got a MTH Conrail GP38-2 from eBay that I am still waiting to arrive. I would really like to find a GP7 or GP9 as those were the most common back then.

Jerry, are you saying that Atlas did the GP7 with the Kato drive back in ‘80s?

C.sam, those are beautiful locomotives.

Jerry Z said:

"I have two of the older Atlas locos, an RS-2 and a GP7. "

If it's an Atlas/Kato Alco RS, the I suspect it's the RS-3. To my knowledge, Atlas/Kato did make an RS-1 and an RS-3, but did not make an RS-2.

Kato did make an RS-2, but released it branded as their own product. (Also excellent running. I have two.)

Confusing, isn't it?

Andre

@laming posted:

Jerry Z said:

"I have two of the older Atlas locos, an RS-2 and a GP7. "

If it's an Atlas/Kato Alco RS, the I suspect it's the RS-3. To my knowledge, Atlas/Kato did make an RS-1 and an RS-3, but did not make an RS-2.

Kato did make an RS-2, but released it branded as their own product. (Also excellent running. I have two.)

Confusing, isn't it?

Andre

Hi Andre:

You are correct, it is an RS-3.

Regards,

Jerry

@Strummer posted:

If you're a DCC guy, I would agree with what's already been said. But HO has a rich history, so there's a ton of great pre-DCC stuff that might be worth your looking into....FWIW.

Mark in Oregon

You know me, I like OLD stuff LOL  I did manage to get the MTH K4 for a steamy $20 though dead though the seller said it was.

Welcome to the big world of HO.

I too returned to HO from a 20 year excursion into O. I'm now selling off my remaining O gauge (Postwar Lionel) and will never look back. I'm now pretty deep into both worlds in HO, During months off due to COVID,I've rebuilt my previous O gauge layout into an HO which was envisioned as an American HO layout but is now a European (Märklin) HO layout that is absolutely crazy  fun to operate. I still have a lot of American HO that I run on our local modular HO club's layout and a two rail circuit on my home layout. Over the years,I've sampled offerings from all the HO makes and can honestly give real world advice on which brands are reliable as I'm also the go-to person for our local club's loco DCC upgrades and loco repairs. 

I'm personally a fan of big superpower steam and the bulk of my two rail HO DCC steam locos are Trix (Märklin) and BLI (Broadway Limited). I have one MTH HO steam locomotive that runs well and sounds even better after I replaced the stock decoder with a ESU loksound offering. As for first and second generation diesels,the bulk of my fleet is again Trix and BLI. I also have a several diesel locos each from Kato,Genesis,Rapido,Bachmann and Atlas. I've actually been pleased with Bachmann's recent DCC diesel offerings. They have been reliable and held up well. I cannot comment on Bachmann's current HO steam locos. I've had to repair several for club members-I'm not a fan. As for Lionel's new HO offerings -they are "toyish" and not of interest to serious HO modelers and operators mostly based on 60-70 year old tooling (Ex-Mantua,Ex-Marx/Model Power).

As for DCC systems,I second the suggestion of NCE. It is a excellent,easy to use system with great customer support. My own layout uses the multi-system Marklin CS3+ unit.

As far as the best? I'm head over heels blown away by Märklin. It's a benchmark for technology and the ultimate for reliability. I can run multiple long trains,usually 6-20 independently hours upon hours without a single derailment or glitch.

Enjoy your excursion into the world of HO.

Ricky