HO Steam Loco prototypes?

A "prototype" is generally understood to be a typical or first example of a particular object, especially a machine, whose design may then be refined in later examples. The question here is what actual locomotives, if any, these particular models are based upon.  

RivaRossi made, starting around 1975 and until 1995, a large number of H0 trainsets. The USA trainsets, which consisted of a locomotive and 4 cars, were based on a series of generic 6-axle heavyweight cars and another series of generic 4-axle streamline cars. The steam locomotives in most of these sets were either based on a generic Pacific 4-6-2 type, a Mikado 2-8-2 or on a Hudson 4-6-4 type. By reusing standard parts RivaRossi made convincing but not correct in every detail models of the proper locomotives for these sets. The heavyweight passenger car models were first made in ATSF or Santa Fe lettering. The first streamline sets included 4 coaches but only 3 types; each set had two of the same roomette cars and no restaurant car. The streamlined observation is a bit odd; it is blunt ended while most streamlined observation cars are round ended; the streamlined models were based on the 1949 Broadway Limited. All in all, these RivaRossi trainsets, which were attractively painted, gave a (bit too) colourful view on the American named trains (source: my ebook http://sncf231e.nl/non-ciwl-luxury-trainssmall-2/).

The RivaRossi 0-8-0 was based on an Indiana Harbour Belt switcher; so a "real"model:

Regards

Fred

MJV1988 posted:

Hello,

So I have had this bothering me for quite a long time and maybe someone can either help out or give me a link to more info on it if available. Being into HO modeling alot in the 90's there were several steam engines that I always wanted to know what the prototypes were based off of? The list is a little long but I figured I'd try anyway.

Bachmann/Spectrum: 0-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-8-2

The Bachmann 0-6-0 is based on the USRA 0-6-0.  Their first 2-8-0 was a model of a Reading 2-8-0, while the Spectrum 2-8-0 is basically a generic Baldwin 2-8-0, but is close to an IC locomotive.  As I recall, Bachmann did both the USRA Light and Heavy 4-8-2.

IHC: 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-8-2 (new and older (possibly C&O) model)?

USRA Light 4-6-2 and 2-8-2.  There were subtle differences between the two prototypes, but IHC used the same boiler for both.   Yes the 4-8-2 was based on a C&O prototype.  The 4-6-2 was previously offered by Life-Like and the 4-8-2 by Pemco (with tender drive!)

Rivarossi: 0-8-0, 4-6-2, 2-8-2

As mentioned above, the 0-8-0 was a model of the IHB 0-8-0.  The 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 were based on the USRA Heavy locomotives, again with subtle differences on the prototype and like IHC, Rivarossi simply used the same boiler for both.

Rusty

 

What were the prototypes based off of?

Rusty Traque posted:

MJV1988 posted:

Hello,

So I have had this bothering me for quite a long time and maybe someone can either help out or give me a link to more info on it if available. Being into HO modeling alot in the 90's there were several steam engines that I always wanted to know what the prototypes were based off of? The list is a little long but I figured I'd try anyway.

Bachmann/Spectrum: 0-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-8-2

The Bachmann 0-6-0 is based on the USRA 0-6-0.  Their first 2-8-0 was a model of a Reading 2-8-0, while the Spectrum 2-8-0 is basically a generic Baldwin 2-8-0, but is close to an IC locomotive.  As I recall, Bachmann did both the USRA Light and Heavy 4-8-2.

IHC: 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-8-2 (new and older (possibly C&O) model)?

USRA Light 4-6-2 and 2-8-2.  There were subtle differences between the two prototypes, but IHC used the same boiler for both.   Yes the 4-8-2 was based on a C&O prototype.  The 4-6-2 was previously offered by Life-Like and the 4-8-2 by Pemco (with tender drive!)

Rivarossi: 0-8-0, 4-6-2, 2-8-2

As mentioned above, the 0-8-0 was a model of the IHB 0-8-0.  The 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 were based on the USRA Heavy locomotives, again with subtle differences on the prototype and like IHC, Rivarossi simply used the same boiler for both.

Rusty

 

What were the prototypes based off of?

 

So what railroads used the IHC type pacific and mikado? Or is it just a universal design that IHC slapped a bunch of roadnames on and sold? Same with the Spectrum consolidation and switcher engine? Any specific railroad use that design or is it just a universal?

Thanks.

sncf231e posted:

RivaRossi made, starting around 1975 and until 1995, a large number of H0 trainsets. The USA trainsets, which consisted of a locomotive and 4 cars, were based on a series of generic 6-axle heavyweight cars and another series of generic 4-axle streamline cars. The steam locomotives in most of these sets were either based on a generic Pacific 4-6-2 type, a Mikado 2-8-2 or on a Hudson 4-6-4 type. By reusing standard parts RivaRossi made convincing but not correct in every detail models of the proper locomotives for these sets. The heavyweight passenger car models were first made in ATSF or Santa Fe lettering. The first streamline sets included 4 coaches but only 3 types; each set had two of the same roomette cars and no restaurant car. The streamlined observation is a bit odd; it is blunt ended while most streamlined observation cars are round ended; the streamlined models were based on the 1949 Broadway Limited. All in all, these RivaRossi trainsets, which were attractively painted, gave a (bit too) colourful view on the American named trains (source: my ebook http://sncf231e.nl/non-ciwl-luxury-trainssmall-2/).

The RivaRossi 0-8-0 was based on an Indiana Harbour Belt switcher; so a "real"model:

Regards

Fred

Fred much appreciated. So the Pacific and mikado from Rivarossi are just universal engines? No one specific used this exact engine or similar? Yes it did drive me nuts when they used a big boy tender on a UP FEF or even a streamlined NYC hudson. I'll have to bring up the passenger cars on another thread because that's another one that's been on my mind for awhile also.

Thanks again,

Matt

MJV1988 posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

MJV1988 posted:

Hello,

So I have had this bothering me for quite a long time and maybe someone can either help out or give me a link to more info on it if available. Being into HO modeling alot in the 90's there were several steam engines that I always wanted to know what the prototypes were based off of? The list is a little long but I figured I'd try anyway.

Bachmann/Spectrum: 0-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-8-2

The Bachmann 0-6-0 is based on the USRA 0-6-0.  Their first 2-8-0 was a model of a Reading 2-8-0, while the Spectrum 2-8-0 is basically a generic Baldwin 2-8-0, but is close to an IC locomotive.  As I recall, Bachmann did both the USRA Light and Heavy 4-8-2.

IHC: 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 4-8-2 (new and older (possibly C&O) model)?

USRA Light 4-6-2 and 2-8-2.  There were subtle differences between the two prototypes, but IHC used the same boiler for both.   Yes the 4-8-2 was based on a C&O prototype.  The 4-6-2 was previously offered by Life-Like and the 4-8-2 by Pemco (with tender drive!)

Rivarossi: 0-8-0, 4-6-2, 2-8-2

As mentioned above, the 0-8-0 was a model of the IHB 0-8-0.  The 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 were based on the USRA Heavy locomotives, again with subtle differences on the prototype and like IHC, Rivarossi simply used the same boiler for both.

Rusty

 

What were the prototypes based off of?

 

So what railroads used the IHC type pacific and mikado? Or is it just a universal design that IHC slapped a bunch of roadnames on and sold? Same with the Spectrum consolidation and switcher engine? Any specific railroad use that design or is it just a universal?

Thanks.

USRA Light 4-6-2:  Atlantic Coast Line, Baltimore & Ohio, Grand Trunk Western, Mobile & Ohio/Gulf Mobile & Ohio, Lousiville & Nashville.

USRA Light 2-8-2: A whole bunch of railroads...  I'm going to list them by reporting marks.  AC&Y, A&WP, ACL, B&O, C&A, C&EI, C&O, CGW, CNOTP(SOU), FEC, GT, KO&G, L&HR, L&N, MC(NYC), MEC, M&O/GM&O, Monon, NYC, OSL(UP,) PRR, PM, P&WV, RI, RUT, SAL, SLSF, SOU, MP, NKP, NdeM, T&P, UP, WAB, WofA.  I left out some of the more obscure railroads...

USRA 0-6-0: ACL, B&O, CB&Q, CGW, CNJ, C&NW, GT, GTW, M&O/GM&O, NYC, OSL(UP,) NKP, PRR, P&WV, RI, SAL, SLSF, T&P, TRRA, UP.

The thing about steam locomotives are most designs were individual to each railroad.  Take the Rivarrossi 0-8-0 for example.  It's a model of a locomotive only owned by the Indiana Harbor Belt, and they only had 3 of them.  I'd be willing to bet Rivarossi made them because they were so unique,with probably the most heavily detailed plastic locomotive for the time (introduced in 1960) that made it an eye-catching model, more so than a standard USRA 0-8-0 model would have had.

As far as the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 goes, the 2-8-0 is one of those locomotives that were pretty unique to each railroad.

And there could also be significant differences between 2-8-0 classes on a specific railroad, so it make sense for a mass marketer of models to offer a generic version in different roads.

As far as the NYC Hudson with the UP centipede tender, AHM/Rivarrossi was playing it a little fast and loose.  Some NYC Hudsons did get centipede tenders, but they were of NYC's design.

Rivarrosi apparently felt it wasn't worth it to tool up for the NYC tender.  Oddly, Bachmann did.  They first put it behind their 2-10-4, which used their Santa Fe Northern's boiler...  Go figure...

Rusty