How will Lionel pulling the plug on ERR affect your buying habits or older engines you already own?

It won't.  I'm more concerned about older engines that need an upgrade.  I do understand the frustration of those that want to buy older locos and upgrade them though.

Good point Marty. What about the older engines people already have? 

Sadly it will put me and a few other people out of business! 

Alex 

Any used 3rdrail engines that I missed out on in the early 2000's I'm less likely to purchase now.  I did purchase extra boards yesterday but won't have access to sounds with ERR gone(hopefully Lionel would be more likely to sell sounds now).  I could go PS3 upgrade kits but I'm not a big fan on MTH sounds even though you have a choice of what to download(to me they all sound the same) and I'm not a fan of doing tach strips on the flywheels.

I'm more worried about what I have now failing in the future.  Three 3rdrail engines, two Kline engines, and one Weaver.  Hence the reason to purchase spare boards.

Also, what will Atlas O do for a command control system on their locomotives? Then again, what will people do for repairs on older locomotives that were equipped with Train America Studios "EOB" systems?

Again Atlas and 3rd Rail are not affected by this.  This is only sales to the consumer.  The manufacturers that use TMCC will continue to be able to get the components. 

Alex M posted:

Sadly it will put me and a few other people out of business! 

Alex 

I think we just need to make our feelings known, like we haven't already, by writing Lionel.  Alex that would truly stink so I hope something can be worked out.

IMO, do not spend any more money in any proprietary systems than you can afford to lose.  That is one of the reasons that DCC with it's open platform  has such a staying power.   No matter how slick a proprietary system is, if it becomes unsupported you are at a dead end.

MartyE posted:

Alex M posted:

Sadly it will put me and a few other people out of business! 

Alex 

I think we just need to make our feelings known, like we haven't already, by writing Lionel.  Alex that would truly stink so I hope something can be worked out.

I can only hope Lionel is reading all of our posts , I’m generally a quiet guy but now a have to speak out. My customers are all in a panic for two reasons , what are they suppose to do if the ERR components I installed breakdown, two they have many many conventional engines that they want upgraded.  Most are saying things I cannot post here. If they don’t continue to make product available then I’m out, time to move on to something different. They say doors close and then new ones open. Very very sad. 

Alex 

MartyE posted:

Again Atlas and 3rd Rail are not affected by this.  This is only sales to the consumer.  The manufacturers that use TMCC will continue to be able to get the components. 

Not yet anyway.  Let's hope that Lionel doesn't has them on the radar screen.

If they erase the Parts Market, it will force people that want to stay in this Hobby, to just purchase new Engines, only!

I prefer DCS, but I understand the frustration. I felt like this when MTH went from proto1 to proto2 and did NOT provide an upgrade path. People spoke and MTH listened. It took a while, but they did listen. I hope Lionel does the same.

Gerry

I’d be willing to bet ERR sales are going up right now! 😠

When was this announcement made? 

George

MartyE posted:

Again Atlas and 3rd Rail are not affected by this.  This is only sales to the consumer.  The manufacturers that use TMCC will continue to be able to get the components. 

Well maybe it's just me but,,,,,,,,,,,somehow I just don't believe your statement!

I just sent Lionel an email and posted on their Facebook page.

Alex, you are a very smart guy and I will be happy to bring you up to speed on DCS upgrades.  The PS3 upgrades today are a bit more work when installing chain files before the sound file.   Your ERR work is highly respected by all those you have worked for.  I have no doubt this will all work out in time.  Like I stated before, ERR is a good product and I have a few good ideas where it might  end up at.  I have no direct information.

I wouldn't panic. Look for a new owner. And look to Lionel for a possible stop gap on upgrading older TMCC engines with possibly a Legacy motor driver boards?

I would look at this as a transitional shift.

Not sure but something is in the works.

G3750 posted:

When was this announcement made? 

George

According to the 5 page thread currently running on the Lionel Legacy & TMCC Forum, the "announcement" was made Friday morning, at York.

JDaddy, it is a good system.  Legacy with the RCMC system is a great system.   Only time will tell what is going to happen.  

Alex M posted:

I can only hope Lionel is reading all of our posts , I’m generally a quiet guy but now a have to speak out. My customers are all in a panic for two reasons , what are they suppose to do if the ERR components I installed breakdown, two they have many many conventional engines that they want upgraded.  Most are saying things I cannot post here. If they don’t continue to make product available then I’m out, time to move on to something different. They say doors close and then new ones open. Very very sad. 

Alex 

Alex,

This is one of the products which kept many hobbyists in the Lionel TMCC/Legacy world. Every engine you and others upgraded to TMCC via ERR (plus those who just went to ERR to get away from the jerky TMCC 32 speed steps) added loyal Lionel users. No one who really works for their money is going to throw away engines and purchase the exact same piece at twice the price just for a new version of the operating system. Like "New" Coke it is a bad business decision. Remember when they promised Legacy upgrades and pulled the plug so you had to by new if you wanted the basic features?

How about when they dropped selling the TMCC remote and base because it supposedly couldn't be produced any longer. All the electronics folks I know said it was just a bunch of hooey to force us users to purchase the big Cab-2 Legacy hand held. When I showed them the Cab1-L next to the Cab1 they all just laughed.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Alex, you are a very smart guy and I will be happy to bring you up to speed on DCS upgrades.  The PS3 upgrades today are a bit more work when installing chain files before the sound file.   Your ERR work is highly respected by all those you have worked for.  I have no doubt this will all work out in time.  Like I stated before, ERR is a good product and I have a few good ideas where it might  end up at.  I have no direct information.

 

Hi Marty 

If ERR goes away , I’m willing to learn PS3 Upgrades. I’ll come up to you and spend sometime learning. Like I say , old doors close new doors open. 

Thank last very much my pal,

Alex 

Hot Water posted:

MartyE posted:

Again Atlas and 3rd Rail are not affected by this.  This is only sales to the consumer.  The manufacturers that use TMCC will continue to be able to get the components. 

Well maybe it's just me but,,,,,,,,,,,somehow I just don't believe your statement!

Well then don't believe it.  This came from Lionel on Friday morning.  I am only passing along the information.

Brandy posted:

If they erase the Parts Market, it will force people that want to stay in this Hobby, to just purchase new Engines, only!

NOT really. Short term NOS items will be canibalized if people want to keep theirs running. This will curb the secondary market. Just like postwar, if there is a demand, eventually someone will manufacture it and bring it to market. Do you think all these LTI, MPC, postwar, and prewar parts dealers have all "original parts"?

Also be aware that Manufactured in China, do you think Lionel has a full lockdown on their tooling and mfg process?

For me and my huge collection, I will now concentrate on my "projects" and start focusing in on the electronic upgrades rather than buying "new" esp if it's the same product with a "swinging bell" or other superfluous gadget that has no effect on performance and operations.  The used market will see prices dropping substantially esp on NOS for Lionel. Only unique newly tooled items never offered before would I be interested in today's high priced market.

This is not great.  I used their accessory boards for many fun projects, not just upgrading engines.  I've used to add sounds to cars, to control a water column (spinning left and right).  This is a real kick in the teeth for me and future project ideas.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

JDaddy, it is a good system.  Legacy with the RCMC system is a great system.   Only time will tell what is going to happen.  

That's right Marty, and how hard would it be for Lionel to release a new updated RCMC board plug and play to update TMCC engines to Legacy speed steps. It may require a few additional board replacements as well, but offering it would be a bigger and better business opportunity for Lionel and improve performance.

How many would stand in line for a better motor driver board ?  I am in for the long haul, and if I have to take a break and run what I have, than so be it... I may even break out the Pre War and run it around the layout a bit.

 Could this be a new business opportunity for someone else to produce these boards? 

These are not cheap throw away toys.  The operative words here is having a commitment to "backward compatibility" and serviceability plays a big part in it  Over the years folks in this hobby have mentioned this countless times and how it really matters to have a committed train guy who thinks like we think is making the decisions that affect us, its customer base over the long haul.  Funny thing is, there is a company with that proven record in this hobby.

joe   

It will definitely keep me from buying many things such as Williams engines and Ebay units that I want to upgrade to TMCC with Cruise.   Oh well.   

It won't affect me anytime soon. I have a number of Cruise Commanders, Cruise Lites, and Cruise Ms on hand. Also have a number of TAS EOBs and EOB Drop ins if things get really tight. With Lionel now selling Legacy boards, that is another fall back. I am doing one of those now. What is lost is the ease and convenience that ERR brought to table. Also upgrading non Cruise modular and repairing Odyssey will be much more complicated with the loss of the Cruise M.

The above plus I use both TMCC/Legacy and DCS and don't hesitate to install PS2/3 if it appears to be better solution.

Pete

I do not understand this? Would it not go back to Jon Z., the founder? Makes me think Lionel had this planned when they took it over. Just wants to make to buy more MTH!!

Joe Gozzo

Doug N posted:

 Could this be a new business opportunity for someone else to produce these boards? 

Lionel would have to be willing to allow this, to license the TMCC technology to someone to build the boards and such, whether or not they actually sell the assets of ERR.  Be kind of funny if Mike R somehow got involved in bringing ERR back (and before someone jumps on me, I am not saying that is gonna happen, among other things he is busy with Trainworx, his current employer). 

We can only hope someone else decides to take over the business of doing this and Lionel is willing to license the technology and whatnot. I can see Lionel getting out of this business if economically it didn't make sense for them, that they wanted to concentrate on Legacy and Lionchief+, I just hope they aren't doing this with some notion that this would somehow make people upgrading older equipment to TMCC buy their newer stuff, that it will increase sales of their newer engines, if so that would be not only arrogant but foolish, to say the least. I am sorry to read about this, I have older engines now that I am getting close to building a layout and probably supporting command control, that I would have loved to convert.  I just hope a third party is able to do what ERR was doing, and with Lionel if this was an economics decision they hopefully will allow a third party to take it over and I wish them well, if they did this thinking it would force people to buy their newer products, I can only hope the gods of consequences punish them appropriately. 

This really irritates me! For every step forward they take 3 backwards. I believe their goal is to be a high end engine producer. Be careful Lionel. Not everyone can afford a $2500 engine. I know I can't!!

Joe Gozzo

bigkid posted:

Doug N posted:

 Could this be a new business opportunity for someone else to produce these boards? 

Lionel would have to be willing to allow this, to license the TMCC technology to someone to build the boards and such, whether or not they actually sell the assets of ERR.  Be kind of funny if Mike R somehow got involved in bringing ERR back (and before someone jumps on me, I am not saying that is gonna happen, among other things he is busy with Trainworx, his current employer). 

My first thought was TrainWorx and Mike.

I just bought my last lionel item at york! They have a right to conduct their business the way they see fit.  But, there is more to liking a business entity then the product itself. 

IMHO, They have just limited a fun aspect of the hobby. Upgrading older, Upgrading other brands and repair of older tmcc with lack of available parts. 

Add to this the "experience" of buying new product lately!

The stopping of err boards is the last straw. Hopefully, there is a change in Management on the horizon.  

Trainlover160 posted:

I do not understand this? Would it not go back to Jon Z., the founder? Makes me think Lionel had this planned when they took it over. Just wants to make to buy more MTH!!

Joe Gozzo

If more people learn how to Install a DCS kit then more money for MTH! 💰

If they can still supply boards to the other company's then the bottom line is they are just yanking the rug out from under their past customers. If some genius at Lionel thinks it will force consumers to buy Legacy it ain't gonna happen at my house.

Jim 1939 posted:

If they can still supply boards to the other company's then the bottom line is they are just yanking the rug out from under their past customers. If some genius at Lionel thinks it will force consumers to buy Legacy it ain't gonna happen at my house.

Nice, right....they can sell to the competition....