Is the Lionel Pullmor Motor Officially Dead?

If not, it should be.

Frankly, I hope they're gone for good. I know some people here will wax nostalgic over them.

 

A quick list of the pros and cons of Pullmor Motors.

 

Cons:

• Noisy
• High maintainence
• Low speed not really possible
• Power hog
• Won't fit in many scale sized locomotives

Pros:

• <crickets>

Personally, I haven't bought any in the last 10 years, and only have a few on my layout. I avoid them like the plague.

 

Yea, can motor technology is such now that Pul-mor's are not needed for the power to pull long 0-gauge trains anymore. I suppose they're going the way of the "air-whistle" impeller in 0-gauge tenders. Eh, such is life......

I'll bet Pullmor's will still be around and running long after some of todays can motored locos filled with complicated electronics have died and gone to train heaven...

Elliot, you have tons of pulllmor power in your basement

I hope not because i think they are a great motors. I have three engines with pullmor motors and they run well and pull well. I have U36C engine and at the club somebody forgot to throw the switch and i smacked into another club member's train. It knocked cars off and it hit so hard it bent the railing on my engine and knocked paint off the railing LOL.    

Maybe, but not on the layout. There are only two with TMCC in service and four more on the RIP track which are doubtful to return.

Not quite dead yet. From the Lionel parts listing:

 

6000622100 AC MOTOR / PULLMOR / NW-2 / GG-1 (PW # 622-100) $50.00
6108582100 AC MOTOR / PULLMOR / NW-2 / GG-1 / W/CAPS $50.00
6008753150 AC MOTOR HOUSING / W/FIELD (POSTWAR # 8753-150) $22.00
6108582150 AC MOTOR HOUSING / W/FIELD (POSTWAR # 773-103) $22.00
6008950100 AC MOTOR / PULLMOR / FM TRAINMASTER / W/CAPACITORS $50.00
6308332150 AC MOTOR / PULLMOR / F-3 / W/CAPACITORS $50.00     
6308366150 AC MOTOR / PULLMOR / F-3 W/ CAPACITORS / (NEW) $50.00

There are also several listed with different couplings, instead of worms, for various steam locos.

 

I hope there gone for good. I won't give an engine a second look if I know it has pullmores.  They were good in there day and there will always be plenty of pre and post war locomotives to be found at shows and estate sales.

Its the noisy sound that makes them classic.  If you want a sterile scale piece...then thats not a true Lionel.  But thats my Lionel classic half speaking.  Of course I will settle for PW tooling with a nice CAN motor as well...since it was MPC who pioneered mounting a CAN over the frame where an AC motor sat.

Yup can motors are great. When they wear, they start drawing more amps, and cook the controller board. As far as I know, they cannot be repaired. The one can motor I needed for a repair was no longer carried by Lionel. It was available on the secondary market at an inflated price. add the cost of the controller board, and it didn't pay to fix the engine.

 

Most of the universal (Pullmor) motors used by Lionel are serviceable, with parts that fairly easy to obtain.

 

To each their own.

Can motors can be built to be serviced and repaired. The R/C hobby is quite familiar with rebuildable can motors. I can recall even seeing such tools as armature lathes and replacement brushes of many different formulations for different kinds of racing. During the time I was involved with 1/10 scale R/C, I had a monster truck with modified motors that I took apart for servicing on a few occasions.

 

It's just that none of them are used in our trains. But there's nothing technically impossible about having that capability-they're just a tad pricey to be sticking them in garden-variety locomotives (and they'd have to be significantly de-tuned for model train use as they were designed for racing).

 

---PCJ

The last Pullmor engine I bought was the Lionel Lines Hudson in a CC set.  I seldom run it, as it never ran as well as any of my can motored Williams steamers.  The same can be said for any AC motored engine I own.

 

I won't buy anymore new Pullmor powered locomotives.  I think Lionel is finally on the right track with their Lion Chief Plus offerings (no Pullmors).  Not too expensive, they run well, and you don't have to spend a ton of money buying expensive control systems.  Run with what you have.   

I doubt that I'll be buying anymore locomotives with Pullmor motors as I have enough.  At times, I enjoy running engines equipped with them.  Six of my locomotives are Pullmor equipped and are definite keepers.  If three of those specific locomotives had a can motor, I wouldn't have purchased them.  On the other side, I wish one of the six had a can motor...it may eventually be upgraded.

 

I love the nostalgia as well as the sound, smell and ease of fixing Pullmor motors.  If the Pullmor motor never gets put in another Lionel engine, I'm ok with that, but it will always have a place in my heart as a toy train operator.

Hope not, the sound, the smell, the power and when controlled by a TPC with Legacy, the run very slow.  I have more fun with them than my Legacy engines.

 

Art

Nothing like the "growl" of 1950's F-3

For guys that love cruise the pulmore is dead, but the current crop of toy train DC can motors are not rebuildable other than potentially the pitman.

 

I wonder what a pulmore that was build with a flywheel and speed sensor would work like though.  At that point you could have cruise.  Problem is no one wants to tool up for that, nor the added cost.

 

So can motors it is.  Frankly at some point the manufactures have to start using universal parts, or the new crop of operators have to be weened off their PW memories of trains that last forever with ample parts and rebuild potential.

 

Just like the scared of batteries issue died.  G

I like them in a few of my engines like the F3 KCS and the Reading T1 and the NYC Mohawk 18009.  All run great at nice speeds.  The one that is a real dog and probably my worst Pullmore motor engine is the NYC Mohawk 18064 with elephant ears, no get up and go.

quote:

Can motors can be built to be serviced and repaired. The R/C hobby is quite familiar with rebuildable can motors. I can recall even seeing such tools as armature lathes and replacement brushes of many different formulations for different kinds of racing. During the time I was involved with 1/10 scale R/C, I had a monster truck with modified motors that I took apart for servicing on a few occasions.

 

It's just that none of them are used in our trains. But there's nothing technically impossible about having that capability-they're just a tad pricey to be sticking them in garden-variety locomotives (and they'd have to be significantly de-tuned for model train use as they were designed for racing).

 

As you wrote, the can motors used in toy trains ARE NOT serviceable, so the fact that serviceable can motors do exist isn't really germane.

Amen to that!!

I like them and they Will Still be Running long after your can motors have been tossed in the trash. Brushes, springs and a good lube now and then they will still be spinning long after we are gone. Sure I like can motor performance but unless they are Pittman quality they are not worth trying to repair. So out they will go.

I'm totally with Keith on this one.  My NYC PW F unit is maybe the only Pullmor unit I have that can crawl with the best modern cruise equipped engine in existence, only it growls, and therein lies the thrill.  A friend cleans his Pullmores by emersing the entire motor in a can of kerosene and then adding power. You should see the black gunk coming out of the engine!  This was in his garage, so don't try this at the kitchen table!  I only like the older Bakelite pullmores.  I've actually melted some of the yellow plastic MPC era Pullmors!

Rich

I don't try to repair can motors, but since the cost of replacement isn't all that significant, I haven't really worried about can motors dying.  I've had very few can motor failures, other than starter set stuff that's not up to the task they're called on to perform.  If the motors start being unavailable, then I'll worry.  However, I suspect that I'll be worm food before that happens.

Except Lionel does stock motor for some of the early 2000 vintage engines, let alone the 90s version, so then your into pulling flywheels and gears, which you don't like to do

 

I have replaced a lot of motors on the MTH.  Problem is the double shaft motors are not as common as single shaft, so your into a large buy order to get the motors from china.

 

It amazes me how many different flywheels and gears are used.  Dia, thickness, etc...  There should be one motor and gear for diesels period.  Makes keeping motors in stock so much easier without large inventories.

 

I understand switchers and such need smaller stuff, but any large diesel could be the same.  G

It certainly seems like the Pullmor motor is dying, and if it does I'll be sorry to see it go.  It's a good motor that hasn't received any design updates since about 1992.  What do you expect?

 

My issue with can motors is that a lot of them *as installed* don't exhibit realistic starting and stopping characteristics.  Big flywheels and back-drivable gears help, but they all tend to be more robotic and less train-like.  This video posted on YouTube by our own PCJ Rail Ride is a good example of how realistically a well-tuned Pullmor motor (in this case two) can perform:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a1xphpSJso

I spend a lot of time by the tracks, and this is very realistic starting behavior for a long freight!

 

The 18064 Mohawk mentioned above had documented circuit board issues which leave its big Pullmor motor starved for power.  Not sure if the replacement boards are still available, but if you can get one it will run as well or better as the earlier 18009.  Or you could just scrap the TMCC and install a regular e-unit.

 

The real reasons the Pullmor has been phased out over the years are high production costs, and RFI (radio frequency interference) from sparking brushes, which can interfere with wireless control systems.  I would LOVE to see an update with a 5-pole armature and/or skewed laminations, drum-style commutator, a lower gear ratio in steam locos, and maybe independent current control for the armature and field.  I think there's a lot of untapped potential here!

 

One more idea... all series motors have a tendency to overspeed under light load, which can sometimes result in high speeds and unrealistically fast acceleration.  However... add an independent electromagnetically controlled train brake (this could be in a special boxcar or caboose) and you've got enormous promise for realistic train handling that even Legacy can't match.  Long live the Pullmor Motor!  

Lionel has killed the Pullmor through neglect of production quality in China and plain ignorance. Think back to how smoothly the early Postwar Alco's and switchers operated. They once paid close attention to details and engineering tolerances. Fast-forward to modern Chinese production: The Pullmor has become a lost art, a victim of both Lionel's design deficiencies, and willful substitution of inferior materials in China. I will cite the following examples: (1) The substitution of smaller, 3mm metric armature shafts into a 1/8" diameter design, causing vibration and performance degradation due to transverse slop in the bearings; (2) The use of soft, mild-steel on armature shafts in lieu of hardened drill-rod steel. As a result, I have recently actually seen armature shafts losing their diameter without any bearing wear, again causing performance degradation; (3) Plastic armature shaft bearings which wear quickly and cause poor operation. (4) Consider the Conventional Classic 726 Berkshire. Apparently, Lionel doesn't even know where the armature bearing is even located. The instructions call for oiling an armature bearing which does not even exist on the brushplate! The shaft makes no contact with the brushplate whatsoever. What neglect to detail!

 

The bottom line is that they just can't do these traditional locomotives right anymore. Out of 6 Conventional Classics locomotives I have, 5 required motor rebuilds. Additionally, out of the 6 (which were all supposed to have Magnetraction) 2 had no evidence of magnetraction, 2 were weak, and 2 were acceptable, though weak by postwar standards. I would probably blame the Magnetraction failures on the Chinese for using cheaper alloys. However, considering that Conventional Classic 726 Berkshire again, the drive wheels are actually zinc, not a ferromagnetic metal. Lionel's engineers never played with magnets as kids apparently. Things like zinc are not magnetic. 

 

I love Pullmor motors, but I am glad they quit something they are incapable of doing correctly.

 

 

I just cleaned up a 1946 vintage 2020 that had been stored for many, many decades.  The Atomic motor was beautiful, not a hint of slop, with ball bearings on the shaft. this despite evidence of A LOT of running (the rollers were worn halfway through). The armature rotated so freely you could almost just blow on it to make it spin.  I cleaned out the old grease and it ran great.  A great piece of machinery and very easy to work on.  I agree that the quality of these motors have declined a great deal since production has moved to China.  I still hope that they won't go away...I love that smell of ozone!

 BTW, Lionel had experimented with a modern design five pole pull-mor - the first Odessey.  It worked very well, but was considered too expensive to produce.  

 I like the old Pull-Mor motors. They are indeed lengthy of service,and like mentioned as long as part's are available they will be with us for a very long time.

 

 And YES...that familiar smell

 

 

My TMCC vert Pullmors run great.

My pre 1960 vert Pullmors in Switchers too run great.

I always liked the full size diesels operations with twins.

Its the singles on car-body, and larger sizes, and 60s-early 80s Switchers. Those have been the ones with issues. Likely the core reason I shy from most diesels too. I do like them looks wise, I don't run them much. Hate working on them.

Seeing that big plastic brush cap is like looking into the engine bay of a Pinto, Omni, or Citation. Did I get the lemon, or the gem? Will it go back together and run as well?

(One the only things in existence I don't look forward to tinkering with is a Pullmore)

 

The horizontal ones, I don't know much about ID wise. But I've ran lots of early stuff. I think there are full case Pullmor, and Pitmans in the early steamers, right?? Or is pitman DC only? Other pullmores were frame mounted fields, armature parallel to the axles. And the worst of the giant plastic caps, Right??.

 Anyhow, full case seemed to run much better. The best.

 

My starter set, parallel mount, 1 can motor Coast Guard switcher is the best for low speed starts, and operation. But its limited traction wise*, and I'm sure extra weights here aren't to healthy for the more delicate seeming plastic gearing.

My early PW non Mag-trc SWs without a traction tire either, do much better than pulling 6-7 light weight cars. *But on a grade the Coast Guard wins!?

 I sold my Pullmor GG-1s w/Mag-trac, and kept the much better running, better tracking, K-line can motor version.

 

Besides access, the repair on a can motor shouldn't be much more than "pop, pull, press, click, done" its design boasts of cheap, easy motor replacement as opposed to a heavier motors repair. The availability shouldn't be an issue as often as it seems to be, there is too much variety in use for sure. Bad use of good design.

 

I've been lucky. The last two motors I did were burnt 80's DC starter docksides. $7-$11 on the motors. Plus, for each, a bridge rectifier, fishing sinkers, and a micro switch, till I'm ready for a reverse board.(they are much cheaper now.) So $15 motor, $15 rev board, $5 dollar engine, 4 sinkers(?) = $30.99 newish locomotive that out pulls most of my Pullmor SWs. I could've afforded black paint too I guess.

 

6 or a half dozen? I'm not a pullmor fan, but I don't really hate them. They should build them well, or move on I guess.

 Can motors are growing on me. But I still don't like the fancy crap too much.

 I just know I'm not letting go of open frame steamers any time soon.

 

I still have a 70s ozone machine I can use for the smell, if I can't lift a throttle.

Anyone make a smoke pellet scented air fresheners? 

 

  

 

 

Well, whatever happens to the Pullmore motors, I've got enough parts stashed away to keep my Alco's running for my grandkids grandkids.

 

I'm pretty much the opposite - about 95% of my stuff is powered by pullmors - nothing wrong w/ the can motor, but I just prefer the open frame type. I love the smell & sound & being able to service it.  That being said, the new batch of pullmors have been really bad - I've had a bunch of issues w/ the conventional classic engine motors - so maybe it's for the best that it's no longer being made

95% of my Lionel Items are Pullmor powered. Both USA (PW/MPC/LTI) and the China made that came in the PWC series and Conventional Classics. The only issue I ever had was the M&STL Orbitor Alco powered unit. That thing sounded like a coffee grinder, even sent it back to Lionel. They told me thats the way its suppose to be. Well got a few parts from Chuck Sartor, and now that thing runs great!

 

Wish they wouldnt kill it off like tubular track, but since Lionel is ignoring us PWC/Conventional Classic guys, I guess it doesnt matter.

 

LONG LIVE PULLMOR!

 

Seems like guys like us are minority these days 

The DC can motor has provided smoother more realistic control and operation. They pull as well or better than the open frame universal pullmor motors and use less power. To their credit though, I have equipment from the 1940's and 1950's that still use the universal open frame motors and they still run like new. They were quality motors built to last while toy can motors are designed for several hundred hours of life and then you need to find a replacement. Now if you consider an instrument grade Pittman motor (as was used in early Williams engines); I would say that they are on par for life expectancy with the pullmor.

In summation, a HIGH GRADE DC can motor will last as long as a pullmor, run smoother, pull strong while using less power. The industry is apparently using ones that give adequate life, as I haven't read too many reports of can motors burning out. .

Mike:  

 

Are you sure about that statement?  I only have one Lionel FM Trainmaster and it has 2 Can motors.  It's the Lionel #6-52315 PRR TCA 50^th Anniversary FM Trainmaster made in 2004.  So they've been using them in FM's at least 10 years now.  

 

HTH,

 

Bill

We might be Chris, but our simple AC motored trains will run forever, and wont crap out with the super fancy deluxe electronics!! And we can still perform our own repairs :-)

Personally, there's a love-hate relationship with these motors. The majority of my conventional equipment is postwar or postwar-style Lionel from the MPC and LTI eras such as the USA scale Hudsons, and some of my early TMCC equipment has the Pullmors, too. I do prefer can motors overall since they are much stronger and allow slow speeds, but I do love fixing up and maintaining the Pullmors, as they do give me some self-satisfaction. That's the main reason I like them, not that they smell of ozone, not that they're just old school Lionel, but if something goes wrong I can fix it.

 

As for its condition in Lionel's line so far, it's a roll of the dice. It may pop up again in some shape or form if Lionel listens to us and does more in the CC/PWC line. I mean, they brought the Lionmaster line this year, so anything is possible.

Each of us are entitled to our own opinion. The Pullmors are the last of a dying breed ruined by off-shore greed (IMHO). Just as my cut off date for prewar trains is 1934. If I were to re-enter the hobby actively my desired Lionel pieces are all postwar with Pullmor power. Am I,"old-fashioned"? I would have to answer,"Yes!". Just as every one of my prewar pieces are still running. So would every one of my Pullmor beauties.

What it comes down to is it's personal preference not a right or wrong answer. I don't think the AC motor will continue to be made but if what some saying is true and there not made the way they use to be that may not be a bad thing! Just like tubular track I don't think we'll see any shortage of the good old AC motors pre or post war in the near or not so near future.