LIONEL MAKES PUBLIC LEGACY AND WI-FI PROTOCOLS

Correct Barry, I wasn't disputing that.  However, when a Legacy sensor equipped locomotive passes over a sensor track, you can be sure of exactly where it is at that time.  That is not true after some running time with DCS without some external indication of locomotive location.  The scale speed is good, but not perfect.

For those who want to stay conventional, get yourself a Lion Chief or Lion Chief Plus loco as they become available.  You can tell exactly where the loco is because you can be standing right next to it .  Plus looks like they'll be reasonably inexpensive compared with Legacy and PS3 locos.  You can have your conventional, your remote and don't have to worry about wi-fi, star wiring, ground planes, etc. if that's your preference.

I wish you guys would get this fired up when the manufacturers make major mistakes/omissions or don't deliver as promised.

 

As plenty of others have said...They're only toys, go play with them.

This is great news.. I just hope they actually can come thru with it.. I got so tired of waiting for a Legacy system I just bought DCS to hold me over till Legacy is available.. I will still buy a Legacy system as soon as I can get my hands on one.. But If I could have gotten a Legacy from the start I more than likely would have never purchased the DCS in the first place.. and the last last few DCS engines I purchased would have been Lionel.. I'm just not sure if Lionel knows how much money these delays actually cost them in the long run..

Awesome news!  I wonder if they will release an application note like with TMCC?  This makes me even more supportive of the Legacy control system.

DCC converts the track voltage to a square waveform of varying amplitudes. The waveform is the digital command sequence. DCS superimposes the digital command set onto the track voltage and isn't compatible. Don't know how TMCC/Legacy would react to being connected to a DCC layout. Supposedly, TMCC uses DCC command protocols, but transmits by radio to the locomotives.

Unless I am mistaken this really isn't new.Tas had a very similar idea some years back.
Now will this track sensor be a tracking device in a block? Also station stops tell a crossing gate to go down at a predetermined spot. If this comes to be then thank Mike Reagan.

only my 2 cents but it sure sounds like LCS of years past to me.
$oo

Great move by Lionel. Can Legacy upgrade kits be far behind?

WOW, wouldn't that be great!

 

Well, the new Sunset/3rd rail "new railsounds" is essentially legacy railsounds minus the ability to quill the whistle etc.

 

The soundsets themselves are identical to those on recent Lionel legacy offerings.

Actually, I'm guessing the "new" sounds for 3rd Rail are just the new ERR boards, as that's where they get their TMCC packages.  The new RailSounds Commander with the single board has much better sound than the earlier RS4 boards.

 

It's not really the Legacy sound package, I believe it's considered RailSounds 5.

I think that what Lionel is doing is GREAT.  Why--Many of us on this forum may never use this to the full extent possible.  Who will--the next generation of 3 rail train people.  Todays kids.  My 4 year old grandson loves trains and running grandpas trains.  He has the the Thomas the Tank remote figured out and is quickly figuring out the Legacy remote.  Computers, Wi-Fi, I Phones, those are the things he will grow up with.  Integrate it with trains, and you just might keep him hooked on trains. (His twin brother and 6year old brother have minimal interest in trains, but love the the I Pad, Wi, etc. Maybe we might draw them in to trains with this new feature.  Not sure about their 1 year old brother yet)

I have the bluetrain software but haven't built the special bluetooth / serial port doggle to tmcc.  What's different is this software would be talking directly to the LCS wifi. 

 

Bluetrain is just a great example of someone writing software on a android architecture (its 100% free to do) and using the open TMCC api (also free).

 

Anyway, the idea would be the same look and feel on an iPad as a android tablet.

 

The future is looking really bright though, so I'm not complaining, just hoping for the same features on my android tablets.

 

You can buy the BT serial port adapter, they're like $10-12.  You need a 5V DC supply, I retasked one of the many cast off cell phone chargers to power mine. 

 

EDIT:  Here's the one I bought, works great: BT Serial Adapter

MTH is going to have three levels of DCS App`s 'one Basic free App' a 'Full DCS App' ,that you are charged for, then an 'App for Computer Controlled Layouts' ,exclusively from Hikel Trains...I have heard something about it either is or is similar to 'GPS' in the the Engines, but I only caught a little of that description from Mike Wolf... I think MTH and Hikel Trains will want to make money on their investment in their WIFI System and MTH is very strict with it`s patents, so I don`t think we`ll see them releasing the DCS Protocols anytime soon...

If I understood any of this it would be cool

 

LCS Protocols

Obviously, working on a different business model.

John,

However, when a Legacy sensor equipped locomotive passes over a sensor track, you can be sure of exactly where it is at that time

And why is this important?

Sweet. For those so inclined there will be some really new and exciting ways to do things coming your way. There are so many talented people that with the codes in hand will do things I couldn't begin to imagine.  Those are the people that will then make it available to people like me that are extremely excited about what's to come but don't have the knowledge to do it on their own. For a price, of course, which I will be happy to pay. Im the plug plug and play guy. 

 

For those so inclined to just hook a transformer to the track, relax and push that handle and watch her go can still do what people have been doing since that first Lionel engine hit the rails. I would guess there will be more and more conventional trains coming to market at steadily dropping prices. I know I have quite a few that just do not see any track time anymore. 

 

This news is simply great. I've felt that this is absolutely the best time ever to be into model trains the last few years. Now it will be even better. 

It is a prerequisite if you want to do many kinds of layout automation. It helps if the computer knows where things are and when they are there.

So to know where each engine is on the layout track maybe we need to install a Military-grade GPS system in each engine instead of multiple LCS sensor tracks!

 

Then could use the engines for drone targeting. Wow this is getting exciting.

 

Legacy,  DCS yes. DCC no.

For someone who wrote a book on controlling trains remotely I found this comment hilarious.


       

At list of $95 each, a sensor track is not that practical for full block control, unless you have some very deep pockets.  An insulated rail is far cheaper.

 

That said, strategically placed sensor tracks would permit a computer system to monitor entry of locomotives onto the layout, with subsequent tracking by occupancy of insulated rails.  I currently use RFID tags and RFID readers for this function - installed in a locomotive or designated rolling stock, it works no matter if the motive power is TMCC, Legacy, DCS, or the old 0-5-0!

I agree, there are many other cheaper ways to detect a train.  However the combination of having at least one sensor that can positively identify an engine along with the now public knowledge of the legacy commands and an array of cheaper third party sensors allows for some very interesting automation possibilities with hardware and software from many different sources. Let the open source games begin!

An excellent move by Lionel - and sure to bring many, many (now unforeseen) improvements in model railroading in the future.

 

YEP!  Let the open-source games begin!

 

Your move, MTH.

It was my understanding that the Legacy base would not accept Legacy commands via the serial port.  In order to send Legacy commands will you need to communicate with the new LCS control and it will send the commands out?  Or does Lionel plan to allow Legacy commands to come in via the serial port on the command base?

Improvements/enhancements for those enamored by the digital age in model railroading?  Probably yes!

 

More participants in the hobby in the future?  Not likely, since model railroading is about trains and railroading, along with the imaginative creation of credible or even fanciful environments for those trains to operate in.  Unless we stimulate more interest in those down-to-earth aspects of the hobby, my guess is all the gizmos in the world--now or in the future--will not bring increased numbers of participants into the world of model railroading.

There was a back door into the MTH system that the early, version 1.0, Legacy sets could access. MTH was informed, the back door was closed and Lionel effectively recalled all the 1.0 versions for a hardware and software upgrade.

It can be done now for many engines however Lionel does not make the sound sets available.

I downloaded the PDF file. It this the protocol?

Or does Lionel plan to allow Legacy commands to come in via the serial port on the command base?

 

From the documentation Lionel posted regarding this announcement:

 

* NOTE: only 0xFE commands may be sent to the base (and your command equipped locomotives) unless the minimum LCS equipment is installed, for example - the LCS SER2 or LCS WiFi adapter. 

The sound is what makes it all worthwhile!  I can put a pretty nice cruise control into a locomotive now with the ERR upgrades, but I can't have the great Legacy sound.

I'm having a tough time understanding this.

If only TMCC commands can be sent into the base serial port, what does the SER2 do to allow Legacy (TMCC2) commands to be sent into the serial port?

I am GUESSING that there is the equivalent of a "dongle" built into these devices that "blesses" them as far as the base is concerned.  This would be similar to the serial/parallel/usb key locks that some software vendors use to prevent unauthorized use of their software.  aka you can copy it to your hearts content but it will only run if you have the "key" plugged into the system.

 

It looks like the development of a "universal" remote will be in the hands of developers of apps for pads and smart phones.  Lionel is giving them access to the codes and their devices will still have to communicate with the wifi or serial adapter to get the commands they are sending into the system.

 

Quit talking sense Allan, it screws up the masses.

 

Seriously, I do find entertaining all the speculation about the one great thing that will bring swarms of people to O Gauge railroading.

 

People are into trains or they're not, for a variety of reasons either way.

 

There is no magic "one thing" such as tablet interface which will bring in the masses who currently have no interest or bring in all the young children either.

Ford

 

is better than

 

Chevy.

 

 

Seriously people, give it a break.

Actually you are right, Ford did not need a government bailout to stay in buisness. They produced automobiles that people wanted to buy.

 

....... my trains better than yourrrr train, my trains better than yourrs......

Here is the official press release from Lionel:

---

 

 

Lionel Trains Releases Legacy Protocol to Bring Hobbyists Together

Manufacturer-Agnostic System Integrates Mobile Devices, Opens Access to Developers

 

Concord, NC – January 15, 2014 – Lionel LLC today announced it will make public its Legacy command protocol and open its WiFi-to-model-railroad interface in an effort to grow the hobby by allowing a single remote to control all manufacturers’ locomotives.

 

Industry hobbyists have long pined for a universal remote to integrate and control model railroad layouts. Lionel is taking the first step towards realizing this goal via the user’s own smart device and Lionel’s WiFi adapter. Layout Control System (LCS) WiFi creates a common access point with a royalty-free protocol designed for model railroading. Any manufacturer can use LCS WiFi to support their unique locomotive command sets. Within this framework, hobbyists will be able to control different manufacturers’ locomotives seamlessly from one app running on a smart phone or tablet.

 

“To keep up with today’s mobile-centric landscape, unified control from a smart phone or tablet is critical in growing the hobby of model railroading,” says Jon Zahornacky, Chief Technology Officer at Lionel. “Publishing our WiFi protocol gives the hobby a royalty-free path to controlling any manufacturer’s model trains from smart devices using our WiFi adapter.”

 

Lionel is working closely with LCS partners to develop their own apps that connect to Lionel’s WiFi interface. The first announced such product is Blue Train developed by Bob Krivacic, a long-time innovator in the model railroad industry. The BlueTrain app runs on Android devices, connects to LCS WiFi, runs Lionel locomotives and can be used simultaneously with any other LCS-compatible controller.

 

“By opening the Legacy protocol, Lionel is allowing other manufacturers’ products to control Lionel Trains. It’d be great to see other manufacturers follow suit and begin sharing their own proprietary protocols. Everyone involved in the model railroad world stands to benefit,” says Bob Krivacic, industry innovator and developer.

 

The Legacy command specification is available and can be downloaded from www.lionel.com/lcs. The WiFi specification is available through the LCS Partner program.

 

About Lionel Trains

Lionel Trains (http://www.lionel.com/) is an iconic model train company that has captured the hearts and stirred the imaginations of both young and old since 1900. The Company offers a wide product range of interactive train sets, track and accessories. In 2013, Lionel Trains introduced its first iOS gaming application, Lionel Battle Train. In 2014, Lionel opened its LEGACY protocol to allow individuals, clubs and other companies to control all the features of a Lionel locomotive, using LCS WiFi, from a smart phone or tablet. This is the first step towards a universal remote that controls model trains from all manufacturers. You can follow Lionel on Twitter and Instagram or like us on Facebook.

 

 

Ryan Hatoum | Account Coordinator | SHIFT Communications

This is simply great news for all of us longing for uniformity!!! Thank You Lionel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!