lionel vision loco's need your thoughts ASAP

Couplers that work out of the box. Since that's not going to happen how about a feature to record your own announcements

Good Day Lou,

 

The B&O Trailer Jets would be great! Below is the advertisement from “The Official Guide of Railways” from June 1967 page 261. The B&O GP30’s pulled the Trailer Jet trains often.

 

Regards,

Frank    

       

THANKS! LOUIE

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF MY LAST LIST ABOVE YOUR THREAD?

Lou:  Your list has one glaring problem with it - you have only listed railroads that are predominantly in the Northeast part of the country.  What about the entire western half of the country and the southeast for that matter? Is someone west of the Mississippi going to jump up and down for repetitive NYC and Pennsy locos?  I personally doubt it.  Lionel should offer a nice geographic mix to appeal to the greatest number of hobbyists.

 

The actual Pennsy turbine is a very neat/interesting locomotive.....but I think WAY overdone by O Gauge manufacturers.  (Just my opinion.  Some will disagree.)  Wait several years than knock our socks off with a very nice/improved one.

 

Why do an improved NYC Niagara when Lionel has never done a C&O 4-8-4 Greenbriar?  There are lots of other Northerns that Lionel has NOT yet offerred.  I'd prefer to see new product on that front.  For example, a Great Northern 4-8-4 would be fantastic...and new.  Lionel could spread the fixed costs of developing a new loco by offering it in two paint schemes...black and Glacier Park....in different years. 

 

If they have to stick with something that they already have drawings/parts for b/c of cost concerns or economic uncertainity, I personally think an improved UP FEF or Milwaukee Road S-2 will strongly outsell some of the NYC or Pennsy locos that you've listed....and I'm a NYC and Pennsy fan.  If these can be issued with an MSRP of 1000-1100 and have a street price of 800-900, I would wager that they will fly off the shelves....as much as large scale steam can.

 

These are just my opinions.  "One man's coffee is another man's tea."

Hi Lou,

 

Your list looks like a great start. Thinking of steam engines and growing up in the Southwest, I’d vote for the Frisco Meteor 4-8-4! 

   

Regards,

Frank   

 

  

I DON'T have a problem with railroads west. i looked at a gold painted cb&q steamer from don balls colorful railroads that is really cool. we will never ever see the prices you mentioned for sure but you are correct.

thanks

louie

frank didn't MTH DO THIS TOO

Hi Lou,

First thanks for getting feedback and presenting to Lionel, I think that is great!  I think there is one engine missing from your list above.  The SP Cab Forward seemed to be listed many times as a desired engine.  I know I am hoping for one. 

 

I may have misunderstood your original post/question.  Were we supposed to limit our choices to the engines you listed or was it a wide open question?

 

If we could list any desired Vision Line toy I have to agree with Patrick.  Where are the Vision Line cars and accessories?  The cattle car adds a lot of fun to train play and the wheel and brake sounds actually add a higher degree of realism.  I want more cars with sounds and electro-couplers.

 

I also agree with Alan, Bi-Level ATSF Streamlined Cars would be great too!  I would like to see Vision Line passenger cars with animated passenger figures.  Wouldn't it be cool to see passengers moving about the car?

 

Animated engineer leaning out the window you say?  Sign me up!  I think it would be very cool for the fireman and engineer to be animated.

 

Lastly, in addition to rolling stock and accessories there are engines besides the Cab Forward that would be cool to have in Vision Line.

• SP AC-9
• 0-6-0 Switcher with slope back tender (previously mentioned)
• ATSF 5000 Madame Queen
• UP Greyhound Pacific with matching cars (previously mentioned)
• E7 A-B-A (highly detailed, each powered and each with speakers and sound effects like those on the Centipedes, with scale coupler on lead unit)

thanks again

Hi Lou,

 

To my knowledge MTH made the Frisco 4-8-4 Meteor but hey Lionel can present it too!

 

Regards,

Frank  

Lou, I think that the cab forward has got just as many votes as any other engine type so should be included in your list, also a UP turbine. This would help redress the balance in your list, which has many locos from eastern railroads.

Good Day Lou,

 

For the most spectacular VisionLine diesel locomotives I would suggest the EMD E6 in an AA set with both A units powered with Legacy Control and RailSound features. For the Railroads that have B Units offer the B Unit separately with power and sound too! There is a good selection of railroads.

 

The color schemes represented on these E6's are some of the most striking color schemes ever created!!!

 

Regards,

Frank

 

E6 A Units

Atlantic Coast Line

Baltimore and Ohio

Santa Fe

Chicago Northwestern

Florida East Coast

Illinois Central

Kansas City Southern

Louisville and Nashville

Milwaukee

Missouri Pacific

Seaboard Atlantic Line

Rock Island

Southern

Union Pacific

 

E6 B units

Atlantic Coast Line

Santa Fe

Baltimore and Ohio

Florida East Coast

Missouri Pacific

Southern

Union Pacific

 

I C SD 70   LOCOMOTION

 

Lou,

I'm glad you like the Idea Too. The key is that Lionel Likes the Idea enough to make it!

 

(I stress the part about it being an accurate UP 4-6-2 not some generic re-paint)

 

It cover's all the bases....a nice super detailed smaller (perhaps less expensive) steamer with great vision features that can negotiate smaller curves. Finally a popular road name that they should be able to get enough sales out of.  (My Respects to PRR and Milwaukee Rd Fans of course). Would be close enought to some Southern Pacific models that they might squeeze another livery out of it.  Matching Heavyweight set would make it too hard to pass up!

 

Like Lee I have the JLC Big Boy Also the Legacy 4-12-2. I might look at the upcoming re-release of the H-7 2-8-8-2 but I think I've got all the monster freight haulers I care to buy.  I need something really nice for the smaller curves on the inner parts of my layout.

Lou,

How about SP 4-6-2  CAB2472 This engine really exists,it pulled commuter trains in the Bay Area.Great Northern 4-8-4 in Glacier Park scheme.

Mikey

Poppet-valved UN-streamlined C&O Hudson (heaviest Hudsons ever)

NYC H10 Mikes

NYC Consolidations

USRA 2-10-2 (Heavy or Light; they'll fit many of our layouts - 2-10-4's do)

USRA heavy 2-8-2

Decapods: Baldwin Light (common at one time)

Big Decapods: Baldwin Heavy, Lehigh and New England, WM.

 

NYC electric S-3 class (Lionel already did the S-1 and S-2...)

NYC R-2 freight electric

 

GE (pre-WWII) Steam Turbine 

Haven't seen a scale GG1 in a spell. 

One engineering change I wouldn't mind seeing is a user option to replace the rubber-tired axle with steel, for some prototypical wheel-slip at startup.  I don't personally care about whistle smoke, but I would pay a little more for an expanded set of cab chatter with fun, random sequences appropriate to each loco.

Here are my choices:
1. Reading T-1 (in Iron Horse Rambles or Chessie scheme)
2. C&O Greenbrier 4-8-4 with its current tender (expanded coal bunker)
3. USRA Heavy Mikado--it's time. Some detail variations might be NYC H-7e, B&O Q-4b or CNJ Super MacArthur (as far as I know, never done in 3-Rail.) Foot boards and road pilot in box.
4. B&O Big Six and/or Reading K1sa 2-10-2s (3rd Rail did the Big Six but due to an error they were under-produced)

Thanks for asking Lou! -Ted

Lou,

Great Topic.  Hope you have some good luck in your meeting.  There have been many great ideas above that I am all for.  I am a sucker for a great looking steam loco with all the bells and whistles (yes pun intended).  Some of the items I would love to see in Vision include (many have mentioned prior).

 

- Pennsy Decapod 2-10-0 new tooling with whistle and other effects

- Pennsy 2-10-2 N1

- SP Cab forward

- Scale Hudson or Dreyfuss as mentioned before

- Pennsy T1. S1/2. Q2 or Turbine

- N & W Class A

- NYC 2-8-0 H9 Consolidation (great looking 2-8-0 much more compact that prior offerings).

 

Would also like to see station sounds diners again - my son especially loves them.

 

Thanks for taking our words forward.

More LionMaster locos that  the rest of us could afford especially another run of the PRR T1.

Sunset/3rd Rail already delivered the SP "P Class" Pacifics some years ago (I purchased a P-10).

 

Both Sunset/3rd Rail and MTH have already produced the GN S-2 4-8-4 in Glacier Park Green.

Hi, Lou.

 

Please put the SDP40F at the top of your Amtrak list:

 

 

I'll put in a vote for the P30CH as well:

 

 

Please do what you can to persuade the powers-that-be to announce a diesel which hasn't been offered previously.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Bob

New York Central H10a or b Mikado.  Well detailed.

Forgot to add, American Freedom set with cars.  Interested in the GS-4 variety, but also the T-1 would get my dollars.

Small steam, 280 consolidation with legacy Also rick o's suggestion of that j3a loco. No locos over the 700.00 price range! Just a thought.

I have quite a few I'd love to see, many of which probably won't happen.  So, here's my list.

Key-

PLEASE LIONEL PLEASE!: I really want this

The lower the number, the more I want it

1. ATSF 1800 class 2-6-2, specifically #1880 (PLEASE LIONEL PLEASE!)

2. ATSF 3400 class 4-6-2, specifically #3415 (PLEASE LIONEL PLEASE!)

3. 2-6-0 with Legacy, under $700

4. Legacy steamer under $650 (PLEASE LIONEL PLEASE!)

5. Traditional Steamers (such as Berk Jr.) with Legacy

6. CF7 diesel (ATSF please)

7. Lionmaster Hudson with Legacy, under $800

8. Reading T1 with Legacy (with freight scheme, Iron Horse Rambles, AFT, and Chessie Steam Special)

9. Some sort of 2-8-0 with Legacy

10.  Conventional scale 0-6-0 with Raisounds (such as SP S-12 class or UP 4466)

These would be nice to see.

This started out as being about VISION locos, so let's think about those distinctive models and operating features we want. More SOUNDS, smoke features and swinging bells for me, things that make running model trains more fun (when they work reliably).

 

I don't think it really matters whether 3rd Rail or MTH have issued similar models - Lionel's sound and operating features are superior.

 

Heck, I'd go for a new and improved Acela if Lionel had the nerve to make it. But I suppose I'll just hold off getting an MTH cab forward to see if Lionel make a Vision one.

 

DM&IR Yelllowstone
SP AC-12
NP Z-6 4-6-6-4
GN R-2 2-8-8-2
ATSF 2-8-0 Legacy Mogul
Or another release of the greyhound UP Northern FEF

To each his own opinion, but I much prefer CORRECT scale details instead of "whistle steam", "swinging bells", "blowdown steam", Great sounding whistles but are incorrect for the given model, and fantasy paint jobs.

I am watching this thread intently because I like the Vision Line very much, especially the promise of "pushing the envelope" as Jerry C. stated in his three or so year old description of the goal of Lionel's Vision Line.  I hope Lionel does continue to push the envelope, it is the Vision Line that brought me into the hobby.

 

Here are a some features that I would like to see...

• Wheel slip is something I had posted before and I saw someone else post it here.  Not much cooler than watching videos of the Challenger losing traction and spinning up a driver before hooking back up.  That would be an amazing feature.
• Customizable number boards...c'mon how hard could that really be?
• A scale sized electro-coupler.  The fact that Lionel launched the Vision Line with lobster claw couplers was a disappointment.  Why can't they design and manufacture a scale-sized or at least significantly closer to scale-sized electro-coupler that could still mate with the lobster claw?
• Shouldn't all Vision Line locomotives have the close coupling feature of the Legacy Milwaukee Road 4-8-4?  Why would the high end engines not have a feature present on a lower tier engine?
• Speaking of the coupling of the engine and the tender, why aren't the connections between the two more realistic?  Stereo sound on the VL Challenger is incredible, but Big L blew it when they just left the speaker wire dangle between the engine and tender.  That could have been a more realistic connection and could have been a cool feature.  Where are the water lines and various connections?  How cool is this...........? 
  
  Okay so it would be a PITA to hook up, but once you did it would look cool.
• What about greater levels of interactivity with the engine?  I think it would be cool to have a selectable/optional feature that would allow the operator to monitor boiler pressure, coal/oil consumption and water consumption to name a few.  The levels of each would be dependent upon how the operator was running the engine.  Keys on the CAB2 would allow the operator to adjust each to optimize performance.
• What about customizable sound sets that could be uploaded to the engine perhaps via the LSU?  I would be happy to purchase files from the Lionel web page that could be downloaded to my laptop which I could then upload to my engine. 
• How about a set of 5 speaker equipped box cars whose sounds were synchronized so that when the train got under way you would hear the slack being drawn out of the couplers sequentially?  Combine that with air let off and wheel/brake squeal.  Who would not want to play with that?
  
  Whatever Lionel decides to do with the Vision Line I hope they hold true to the originally stated purpose....pushing the envelope.  I love my new hobby, but to keep it from becoming extinct it has to evolve.  Toy trains have to do more than look nice and smoke while traveling in a circle.  MTH had the right idea/slogan..."trains that do more".  I hope they and Lionel develop ways for trains to do more.  If they do everyone wins in the end.

To each his own opinion, but I much prefer CORRECT scale details instead of "whistle steam", "swinging bells", "blowdown steam", Great sounding whistles but are incorrect for the given model, and fantasy paint jobs.

 

Hey Hot Water,

No offense man, but this a thread soliciting feedback for Vision Line engines....you know, the toy trains with the swinging bells and the whistle steam.  So, give us a break on the toy "must have absolute fidelity with the prototype" lecture. 

Yes to the cab-forward, but not in the "Daylight" paint scheme.  Might as well paint it up in ATSF Warbonnet colors if you're gonna do that and be just as prototypical (not).  

 

I also second the idea of a highly-detailed, dimensionally-correct SD70MAC in BNSF and other road names would be very tempting.  Its vision line, so I think they should go all-out packing in the details and features.

Milwaukee Road Hiawatha Hudson. Never done by Lionel . A popular road name.

I've decided that there is only so much enjoyment in having a high degree of scale accuracy, of the kind that you can really only get in brass imports, when the operating features and general running characteristics of such models are inferior to Lionel's products. In my experience the differences have become greater in recent years.

 

So as far as I am concerned it's what's fun to run that matters. The Vision line offerings have included some great features and I hope that Lionel recognize that these are strong selling points to a lot of us - Yes, I do mean swinging bells and the like. I'm all for encouraging them to continue pushing the envelope.

Handcok52 wrote..........

I've decided that there is only so much enjoyment in having a high degree of scale accuracy, of the kind that you can really only get in brass imports, when the operating features and general running characteristics of such models are inferior to Lionel's products. In my experience the differences have become greater in recent years.

So as far as I am concerned it's what's fun to run that matters. The Vision line offerings have included some great features and I hope that Lionel recognize that these are strong selling points to a lot of us - Yes, I do mean swinging bells and the like. I'm all for encouraging them to continue pushing the envelope.

Well said!  I agree completely with this statement.  I have to believe that many/most that purchase Vision Line products feel the same way.

I have to believe that many/most that purchase Vision Line products feel the same way.

 

True statement for sure!

 

Me, about the only thing I like to hear is the sound of the steam engine chuff or diesel engine rumble, I rarely hit the bell, horn or whistle buttons, the bell actually gets on my nerves after a few seconds.  Other than proper lights, the other "visual" effects are a none issue for me.

 

But getting back to the purpose of the "Vision Line", I haven't seen anyone suggest  firebox doors that open and close with the push of a button.  How about working gauges, or gauges that have indicators that move (could be nothing more than a magnetized pointer like on a compass)?

 

How about a fireman with a shovel that, when the firebox doors open, he swings around a shovel full of coal?

 

Steam coming from the steam chest?  I know that's been done, but I didn't see it in the Vision Line video.

 

I think a neat idea would be to tie the time an engine runs to how much fuel is used.  They could monitor coal, water, diesel fuel, etc and based on actual data, transmit a voice signal telling the crew they're low on fuel.  I'd rather see them use the available memory in the electronics to do this than to add more hokey crew talk.

So many excellent suggestions except for thoes mentioned in fantasy paint schemes(IMHO).

 

How bout the ATSF Madame Queen (2-10-4); don't think "anyone" has done this model in 3 Rail before.  Lots of detailing possibilities.

 

Here is a picture of it from 1947

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/7907705398/

 

The C&O yellow Belly hudson and the MR Hiawatha hudson ( would look great pulling the Weaver Models MR Hiawatha passenger cars "the Morning Train" with the beaver tail observation car) would be good choices at a reasonable price point.

 

and one other wish; all diesels to be made from "diecast"; not plastic!

My top two choices would be a Cincinnatian and the SP & S #700

• DDA40X

 

Alex

Final thoughts from me as Lou heads off today I think and this subject is important to those of us who appreciate the Vision Line idea:

 

1.  Lots of specific locos suggested above, mostly steamers (cab forward!) but a re-make of Lionel's Veranda Turbine (or a Big Blow) with Legacy/Vision features would get a pre-order from me and would be a great follow-up to a classic model.

 

2.  I don't know if the existing Legacy technology supports a wider range of sound features but Lionel's HO Veranda (with QSI sound) had a fantastic sound set. I know that's DCC but would it be possible to incoporate something similar - especially the extended turbine start-up sequence - in a Vision engine?

 

3.  The Vision selling point for many of us is the sound, lighting and smoke features. Lionel's GE Hybrid is a great engine to run because of the set of these features it has. You could almost never exhaust the range of possible combinations of things it does. It beats MTH's PS3 version (which I have) by a wide margin.

 

4.  Less important IMHO but not to be forgotten is that the Vision line was meant to include rolling stock. No Vision passenger cars have been issued but the Ethanol tank cars are another great product. I'd like to see those issued again as it's practically impossible to find them in the aftermarket.