MTH HO

No they haven't

HO gives them a big market share almost as much as O does. The last thing they're gonna do is stop making ho. They don't have as many models in Ho yet but they'rll be a new catalog soon

Matt Makens posted:

HO gives them a big market share almost as much as O does. The last thing they're gonna do is stop making ho. They don't have as many models in Ho yet but they'rll be a new catalog soon

I was thinking the same thing.  I just haven't seen any MTH HO in some time.   Thanks.

The just rolled out GP-38's and before that, Dash-9's.   The last catalog is 2014 so they are clearly due for a new one.   IMO, MTH struggles with the dynamics of the HO market, where there are more established players and DCC is the name of the game.  On that side of the fence I see Broadway Limited as the high-end leader/innovator, but you've got Atlas, Fox Valley, Bachmann, Walther's Proto, Athearn, and others all vying for share with good products.   

They do have a number of really good HO models - I've seen a few of them run and they rival Broadway Limited in terms of quality, but it's a tougher road in HO.  If anything, I would expect MTH to double down in that market before pulling away.   

I have one piece of MTH HO and I think it is well made.  I would have had a second engine but they cancelled it after 18 months.  It's not so much that is was late or that they cancelled but it was the way the cancellation was handled.  Needless to say I will no longer pre-order any items from MTH.

My previous view of MTH wasn't very flattering. However, via a discussion here at this forum, I've since modified my stance and I'm willing to give them a shot if they produce something that I find interest in.

A comment by TheStumpers:

"IMO, MTH struggles with the dynamics of the HO market, where there are more established players and DCC is the name of the game."

In spite of my limited knowledge of things manufacturing, I am inclined to agree with this.

It appeared to me that MTH came into the HO market like they did in the O market: "Let's develop our own proprietary systems and features and the HO market will beat a path to our door."

Ain't gonna' happen in HO. In O scale, MTH was long ago established as a dominant force. In HO, they are just another manufacturer. One that will need to prove itself and its products.  They have some VERY stiff competition as mentioned above, with new manufacturers springing some surprisingly GOOD product on the market: Rapido and that other "Scale" mfg, whatever their name is. 

Also, there truly isn't much in the way of "brand loyalty" in HO.  We spend our loot where we feel the product is the best and offers what we want. Brands aren't terribly important to most HO modelers, especially those like me that have been in HO for the most part since 1962. There are no "Purple vs Orange" wars in HO.

So, me thinks its a bit too premature to count MTH as "done" in HO... but I do recognize they have a ways to go to truly establish themselves in the HO field as a dominant manufacturer.

I wish MTH the best in HO and hope they figure it out and go with what works for the HO market instead of trying to reinvent the HO market.

There is also some bad feelings towards Mike Wolf in the HO world.

EBT Jim posted:

There is also some bad feelings towards Mike Wolf in the HO world.

Why is that Jim ? Is it the MTH DCS control system ? I thought all MTH locos had DCS and DCC?

My LHS just put out the new brochures for the HO DM&IR Yellowstone (2 different classes) and the GP38's.

Rusty

Seacoast posted:

EBT Jim posted:

There is also some bad feelings towards Mike Wolf in the HO world.

Why is that Jim ? Is it the MTH DCS control system ? I thought all MTH locos had DCS and DCC?

Seacoast:

When you have time, read through the information posted in the following link. This will help begin to give you an understanding as to where some of the hard feelings toward MTH in HO originated:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum...&SearchTerms=MTH 

Bob 

CNJ 3676 posted:

Seacoast posted:

EBT Jim posted:

There is also some bad feelings towards Mike Wolf in the HO world.

Why is that Jim ? Is it the MTH DCS control system ? I thought all MTH locos had DCS and DCC?

Seacoast:

When you have time, read through the information posted in the following link. This will help begin to give you an understanding as to where some of the hard feelings toward MTH in HO originated:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum...&SearchTerms=MTH 

Bob 

Ok Bob. Such a group of complainers wow!  Atlas forum is gone, MTH and BLI are still here. 8 years ago = long time ago.

You would think folks would be happy with new companies & products etc in a hobby that seems to be shrinking with time. Personally I have a few MTH products and DCS. DCC is cheaper to install etc and you have the old guard with DCC.

I'm  happy with either. Personally I think MTH makes a great HO product.

Agreed. I tend to not get too wrapped up in such things. It's all trains, it's all good...plenty of choices for everyone.

Bob

CNJ 3676 posted:

Seacoast posted:

EBT Jim posted:

There is also some bad feelings towards Mike Wolf in the HO world.

Why is that Jim ? Is it the MTH DCS control system ? I thought all MTH locos had DCS and DCC?

Seacoast:

When you have time, read through the information posted in the following link. This will help begin to give you an understanding as to where some of the hard feelings toward MTH in HO originated:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum...&SearchTerms=MTH 

Bob 

Geeze, the Atlas Forums have been gone for what, 5-6 years now?

Don'tcha think things may have changed by now?

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

CNJ 3676 posted:

Seacoast posted:

EBT Jim posted:

There is also some bad feelings towards Mike Wolf in the HO world.

Why is that Jim ? Is it the MTH DCS control system ? I thought all MTH locos had DCS and DCC?

Seacoast:

When you have time, read through the information posted in the following link. This will help begin to give you an understanding as to where some of the hard feelings toward MTH in HO originated:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum...&SearchTerms=MTH 

Bob 

Geeze, the Atlas Forums have been gone for what, 5-6 years now?

Don'tcha think things may have changed by now?

Rusty

You would think so but I'm not sure. I know a number of HO modelers who still seem to harbor ill will toward MTH and things similar to the stuff posted in that thread on the Atlas forum are mentioned when the topic of MTH comes up with these guys. It's their prerogative to feel however they do; old habits die hard, I guess. As for me, I've bought quite a bit of MTH O scale equipment over the years and I'm certainly willing to give the company a shot in HO if a model in which I have interest is announced. 

Bob       

Interesting conversation.  I'm trying to give a friend some advise on buying a DCS system for HO.     To me, it seems like a bad decision as I'm not seeing a lot of MTH HO merchandise out there.  3 years ago I saw a lot of MTH HO merchandise at the train shows.   I looked in my DCS Remote manual and I don't see where you can run DCC locomotives through the remote.  I can rum TMCC from the remote so I thought it may support DCC.  I'm not seeing it.   He's probably better off going with a full DCC system as I do see that you can run the newer MTH diesels in DCC mode.

I have a MTH ho challenger, triplex, Mohawk and they run and sound great. 

Also just got a new ES44ac, the detail, sound,smoothness and paint is the best on the market IMO. They all run great on DCC and dcs. I am running my MTH Ho with dcs, I find it more intuitive than DCC.

There are some people in Ho that will not give MTH a chance because of dcs and other mistakes MTH made in the beginning. Since 2011 their engines run just as well in DCC as they do in dcs. If you want to start a war on a ho forum just mention you like MTH Ho trains. Their idiots. 

Panther97 posted:

I'm trying to give a friend some advise on buying a DCS system for HO.  

Unless your friend is going to be HEAVILY invested in MTH HO engines, I too, think he would be best served to go with DCC.  It almost sounds as if your friend is coming over to HO from O scale?

Whether or not I own an MTH HO engine in the future remains to be seen. However, I think it's safe to say that I will never own a DCS system. Not because I have such strong feelings against it, but that it simply wouldn't make financial sense to do so. At this point I have amassed 30+ HO engines for my upcoming HO layout, and the majority of those are DCC/Sound equipped, and the ones that aren't, will be.

I can never see the desire for DCS as being something I'll deal with.

I suspect that my circumstances reflects 90% or more of the serious HO modelers out there. (i.e. DCC equipped engines far outweighs the need for DCS.)

david1 posted:

I have a MTH ho challenger, triplex, Mohawk and they run and sound great. 

Also just got a new ES44ac, the detail, sound,smoothness and paint is the best on the market IMO. They all run great on DCC and dcs. I am running my MTH Ho with dcs, I find it more intuitive than DCC.

There are some people in Ho that will not give MTH a chance because of dcs and other mistakes MTH made in the beginning. Since 2011 their engines run just as well in DCC as they do in dcs. If you want to start a war on a ho forum just mention you like MTH Ho trains. Their idiots. 

It's great you're enjoying your MTH HO products and you're pleased with their performance.

However, name calling isn't really needed.  Did you come to HO from O scale?  Reads as if you did, like a "Purple vs Orange" type of thing. 

By the way, the word you're wanting in your description "Their idiots" is "They're", a contraction of "they are", not "Their", which is a possessive.

Seacoast posted:

 

Ok Bob. Such a group of complainers wow!  Atlas forum is gone, MTH and BLI are still here. 8 years ago = long time ago.

I've been ticked-off at Mike Wolf and his lawyers since my 2003 HO days. Maybe I'm a dying breed among HO'ers.

And, when it comes to O engines .... I buy all of mine from the OGR Forum sponsors .... Lionel, Atlas, and 3rdRail.

MTH is still very much in the HO business, even though they have not released a catalog recently.  Like a lot of HO manufacturers, you are best served regularly checking their web site for information on releases, or watching the model press.  If you go to this following "news" link, you will see announcements for the following products released since the 2014 catalog:

• EMD GP38-2
• DM&IR 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone Class M3 and M4
• DM&IR ore cars (these are specific to DM&IR, and are offered for the first time in HO). 

http://mthtrains.com/news

I have not purchased any MTH HO to date (and I now purchase exclusively HO scale items, having left three rail O) simply due to the fact that they have not manufactured anything that is a "gotta have".  I'm mildly intrigued at the DM&IR Yellowstones, but if I do purchase them, the herald will be gone, and they will become Spokane Southern (we would have tacked on a wartime order for them  ).

I know of a few long time HO modelers who are / were quite ecstatic over the MTH SD70ACe, UP 9000 class 4-12-2, and DM&IR ore cars, and spent heavily when those models came out.  

As far as the DCS vs. DCC debate, I would wholeheartedly agree with those who state that your friend is better served going the DCC route.  Yes, he will lose some of the functions, but most of those functions to me are basically worthless.  I don't give a hoot about smoke, cab talk etc.  Most HO modelers are in the same camp as me.  Purchasing a modern era diesel era locomotive so that it can smoke is just so counter-intuitive on so many levels.  The stuff also screws up the weathering that I place on locomotives. 

A new DCC user has the choice of several great DCC systems that are available.  My personal preference is NCE, but last night, I operated on a friend's basement sized railroad with 11 other folks, using Digitrax DCC.  It worked darn fine too.  

"There are some people in Ho that will not give MTH a chance because of dcs and other mistakes MTH made in the beginning. Since 2011 their engines run just as well in DCC as they do in dcs. If you want to start a war on a ho forum just mention you like MTH Ho trains. They're idiots."

No, they are not idiots, but they are jaded. Sorry, but Mike Wolf reaps what he sewn. His biggest mistake was sending out his letter to the DCC manufacturing community at large "informing" them of his patents. That cheezed a lot of people off, including this writer. I've gotten over it, since he hasn't tried to litigate anything since, except with BLI, with whom there is IMHO a personal grudge. They can both litigate themselves to oblivion for all I care, as there are plenty of people to step in to take their place in HO. Both companies make great products, both companies hopefully have now moved on. One area where I do feel that MTH comes up short, however, is in the detail department on some of their models that I am interested in. As I stated earlier, I am considering the DM&IR M-3 / M-4 Yellowstones, and I am also considering the BLI Union Pacific 4-12-2. Both models would get relettered for my home road, but when I compare the BLI UP 4-12-2 to the MTH product, the BLI locomotive comes out hands down the winner. I have the BLI UP 4-10-2, and UP 4-8-2 in the stable, and both of those run great. I've seen the MTH 4-12-2 run, and it is also one of the finest running models out there. But compare the detail between the two. The MTH 4-12-2:

The BLI model:

I feel the same way about the Yellowstone.  I got rid of a Westside M4 and matching caboose about seven years ago, it was a far better detailed model.  It probably didn't run as good. 

MTH has threatened to make the Great Northern R-2.  There are a lot of potential competitors for their business in the used brass market that will also beat them detail wise. 

But, as those who have modeled for a long time in HO, when it comes to brass steam locomotives, it isn't a couple minute job to get a brass steam locomotive to run good at times, and they still require painting, and sound decoder installation.  That is where MTH shines, instant gratification for less money. 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

laming posted:

david1 posted:

I have a MTH ho challenger, triplex, Mohawk and they run and sound great. 

Also just got a new ES44ac, the detail, sound,smoothness and paint is the best on the market IMO. They all run great on DCC and dcs. I am running my MTH Ho with dcs, I find it more intuitive than DCC.

There are some people in Ho that will not give MTH a chance because of dcs and other mistakes MTH made in the beginning. Since 2011 their engines run just as well in DCC as they do in dcs. If you want to start a war on a ho forum just mention you like MTH Ho trains. Their idiots. 

It's great you're enjoying your MTH HO products and you're pleased with their performance.

However, name calling isn't really needed.  Did you come to HO from O scale?  Reads as if you did, like a "Purple vs Orange" type of thing. 

By the way, the word you're wanting in your description "Their idiots" is "They're", a contraction of "they are", not "Their", which is a possessive.

 

Thanks for the spelling lesson, sorry we all can't be perfect. Btw I have been in Ho for 40+ years. I also have O scale. 

Ho has more cranks then any other train forums I have ever belonged to.

Yes I like MTH Ho, yes I like dcs better then DCC which I used for years and still do. I run both DCC and dcs on my layout, best of both worlds IMO. 

MTH has only been into Ho for a little over 10 plus years and they are improving with every release. The new Es44ac just may be the best on the market IMO. 

We all have our opinions so let's just leave it at that.

Alright, Slick, (aka DAVID1) let's get a few things straight:

If you'll reread the above statements, no one was attacking MTH, especially my statements. In all of my posts I indicated I wished them well and would consider MTH items of interest.

Plus, if you'll look a little bit closer, unless you're blind, you'll see that you're the one that started slinging some mud by referring to others that don't agree with you as "idiots".

Lastly, just who is being the "crank" here? You're the only one that decided to start using demeaning terms toward others of different opinions/persuasions.

And you're more than welcomed for the grammar lesson. I felt since you were referring to others as "idiots", it might serve you well to look at your own reading and writing comprehension skills so that you yourself won't be considered as one.

No one in this thread started the name calling other than you.

And, for whatever reason you deem it relevant, I received my first HO train set in 1958 and modeled in HO almost exclusively since receiving my second HO set for Christmas 1962.

You're right, we all have our opinions, and those opinions ought to be able to be shared here in a mature and civil way without having others step in and use childish ways and terms to demean others that aren't of the same opinion as ours.

Sincerely,

Andre Ming

  It almost sounds as if your friend is coming over to HO from O scale?

Nope, he's an HO guy.  He's just looking to get into the more sophisticated electronics.  He knows I'm an MTH guy and love my DCS system.   He asked my opinion on the DSC system.   It makes sense to go DCS in O-scale if you like MTH.     I wouldn't do it in HO scale.   Although, I would buy an HO MTH diesel since you can run it in DCC mode.  

I like MTH but I'm not dedicated to one brand.  I'm going to buy a Legacy system as well this year.  I like Lionel and MTH.   Thanks for your thoughts on the subject! 

Very nice Jerry aka Gnnpnut, I like both the MTH and Bli models but I do see the difference in detail one up for BLI. I do miss your Hotwater 3 rail drink train run beer updates..lol.

I'm considering getting involved in HO as well sometime and have acquired several HO pieces. The steamers are BLI and I'm impressed with them but would like to have some MTH models as well. Does anyone else make the Erie Triplex that David1 has?  How about a smoking Alco PA? (truly prototypical!)

I am also considering building a small HO switching layout. I was in HO for about 4 years in the late 80s and early 90s and still have almost all my HO including track. Most of my stuff is Atlas track and Athearn blue box. I have one Atlas locomotive (RS1) that I paid $60 for in 1990. I got lucky with this locomotive. It was my best running locomotive back then and still is. I recently found out the drive train was built by  Kato and are still regarded as very good locomotives today. It will get a decoder. 

I want to do this as cheaply as possible so I don't take a lot of money away from my O scale budget. I have been spending a lot of time researching the HO scene. A heck of a lot has changed since I last had an interest in HO. I am very scared to purchase a locomotive because I can't afford to buy something that doesn't perform well. I found out that it will not be financially a good idea to upgrade my Athearn locomotives as it would be cheaper to just buy new locomotives which would have better detail. However, am upgrading the wheels on some of the Athearn rolling stock. I plan to use all of my old track but I may buy some new turnouts. I'm not sure about that yet.

Anyway, to MTH, I have bought 3 boxcars from them and I am very happy with them. 

Thank you Jerry for your comments above. If the MTH HO locomotives are a little more robust, as in the details don't break off as easy, then that would actually be a plus for me that MTH has less details. I hate it when stuff breaks off.

I am just looking to get a couple of diesels with sound. I remember when the MTH K4 first came out and I saw it run at York. It ran extremely well but even though it did I don't know how well the MTH diesels run. Nor do I know how good modern Athearn, Walthers, modern Atlas or even Bachmann run. I heard some bad things about the earlier Proto 2000 engines. I guess because of my former HO experience I expect locomotives to run poorly. I'm just going to take it real slow and keep on researching.

if anyone has experience with MTH diesels such as the GP35 please post it here and not just the PS 3.0 locomotives but the DCC ready locomotives too. Thanks. 

Hello, Phil.

If you're looking to build a small switching layout and want diesels with sound, a few recommendations of mine would be the current generation of Baldwin units from Bowser and the newest switcher and road switcher releases of Atlas. Each of these models is factory equipped with LokSound which, in my opinion, is the finest commercially available sound system. I own several of these models and they all feature superb slow speed control, accurate prime mover sounds and a selection of horn types. My friend and I use these models on his switching layout all the time. I also recommended these items particularly since you mentioned you don't want to break off parts. These models are fairly robust so you should be able to handle them without a problem. That said, I would definitely steer you away from Athearn models as the Genesis units are dripping with details - they can be a challenge to just remove from the box without breaking something - and handling even the "Ready to Roll" units can be problematic due to their somewhat fragile handrails. As you talk to HO guys, you'll find that the plastic handrail assemblies are considered the main weak of Athearn's switchers and road switchers. I own several of these and you do have to be extremely careful when handling them. Atlas' and Bowser's units are nicely detailed but the details (the handrails in particular) are sturdier than Athearn's.

Here is the link to the webpage of Bowser locomotives. Units are listed as being part of the "Traditional" or "Executive" lines. The sound equipped models are part of the "Executive" line.

 http://www.bowser-trains.com/history/locoindex.html

To give you an idea as to what's available from Atlas, here is the LokSound equipped ALCo S-2 which was released last year.

http://www.atlasrr.com/HOLoco/hos2.htm#.VqTR9I-cHIU

I hope this gives you some idea as to what's available based upon your thoughts. Feel free to post any follow up questions you might have.

Bob

Hudson J1e posted:

I am also considering building a small HO switching layout. I was in HO for about 4 years in the late 80s and early 90s ......

CNJ 3676 posted:

Hello, Phil.

If you're looking to build a small switching layout and want diesels with sound, a few recommendations of mine would be the current generation of Baldwin units from Bowser and the newest switcher and road switcher releases of Atlas. Each of these models is factory equipped with LokSound which, in my opinion, is the finest commercially  ........     

Ditto ....everything CNJ Bob said, Phil.

If you can financially swing it ..... you will see how far HO has come. DCC control of .... and the sound of .... ESU Loksound-equiped engines is wonderful. It brought me back into the HO hobby.

I note that you are in central New Jersey. Besides the fine engines that Bob mentioned, Atlas is also producing an ALCO RS3 with ESU Loksound ..... in very cool "as delivered" Jersey Central green, with the yellow striping. They can be bought for $179

Good luck. Jim

Seacoast posted

You would think folks would be happy with new companies & products etc in a hobby that seems to be shrinking with time. ......

Nothing scientific, but I think HO is growing.

EBT Jim posted:

Seacoast posted:

 

Ok Bob. Such a group of complainers wow!  Atlas forum is gone, MTH and BLI are still here. 8 years ago = long time ago.

I've been ticked-off at Mike Wolf and his lawyers since my 2003 HO days. Maybe I'm a dying breed among HO'ers.

And, when it comes to O engines .... I buy all of mine from the OGR Forum sponsors .... Lionel, Atlas, and 3rdRail.

No, you're not a dying breed.

I was just a teenager when it started. I was spending my money from an after school job putting DCC decoders into my engines, with guidance from the nice man that owned Litchfield Station. Soundtraxx was starting to make really cool stuff. Then Mike Wolf legal team started his garbage with everyone.

I'll never forget.

Anyway, it sure is a great time to be playing with trains.

CNJ 3676 posted:

Hello, Phil.

If you're looking to build a small switching layout and want diesels with sound, a few recommendations....

<snip: some excellent advice>

Bob

 

        

Bob is spot-on.

I have examples of both, Bowser and recent Atlas releases.

I have a Bowser "Executive Line" Chicago Great Western Baldwin DS4-4-1000 that came equipped with factory installed class lights, etc, as well as DCC/LokSound equipped. The detail is exquisite, yet robust. The paint and lettering is unsurpassed. The running quality is superb and the sound quality is excellent. I paid something like $180-$185 for the Bowser CGW Baldwin new-in-the-box. I also have Stewart Baldwin's (Stewart is previous to Bowser) that also run excellent, but will need DCC/Sound installed. 

I have on-hand four of the recently released re-tooled Atlas Alco S-2, each with factory DCC/LokSound installed. All are undecorated and all were purchased new-in-the-box for something like $180-$185 each. All run like a Swiss watch and sound excellent.

Just tonight I purchased this Atlas re-tooled S-2 new-in-the-box that also has a high level of detail and factory installed DCC/LokSound for a flat rate of $180, including shipping.

If you are considering an HO switching layout, you are in for a treat when you start looking at the most recent releases.

FWIW: Prior to the construction of my current 16' x 20' out-building, I had a small 12' 6" x 9' 6" room to work with. Years ago I managed to cram inside it a small 3 rail switching layout with a Kansas City theme.  I finally gave up on such an effort and upon switching to S scale, I enlarged my layout scope by 30%. (That is, I gained 30% more layout in the same space by going to S scale.)  I eventually grew tired of the lack of desired product in S scale and returned to HO. I then gained right at twice the layout scope compared to what I had in O 3 rail.  That space gain advantage of HO scale is very hard to ignore.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide!

What are the differences between 'early' and 'later' MTH offerings? I like that the steamers are die cast but is that a real plus in HO?  My BLI PRR T-1 is quite heavy and has a good reputation. Are there any pieces to avoid?

How about the F3's & F7's  and PA's?  

laming posted

I have on-hand four of the recently released re-tooled Atlas Alco S-2, each with factory DCC/LokSound installed. All are undecorated and all were purchased new-in-the-box for something ....

Did those undecorated S-2's come with the separately-applied detail parts uninstalled? So you can apply them yourself after painting and decaling?

Thanks. Jim

Matt01 posted:

Seacoast posted

You would think folks would be happy with new companies & products etc in a hobby that seems to be shrinking with time. ......

Nothing scientific, but I think HO is growing.

EBT Jim posted:

Seacoast posted:

 

Ok Bob. Such a group of complainers wow!  Atlas forum is gone, MTH and BLI are still here. 8 years ago = long time ago.

I've been ticked-off at Mike Wolf and his lawyers since my 2003 HO days. Maybe I'm a dying breed among HO'ers.

And, when it comes to O engines .... I buy all of mine from the OGR Forum sponsors .... Lionel, Atlas, and 3rdRail.

No, you're not a dying breed.

I was just a teenager when it started. I was spending my money from an after school job putting DCC decoders into my engines, with guidance from the nice man that owned Litchfield Station. Soundtraxx was starting to make really cool stuff. Then Mike Wolf legal team started his garbage with everyone.

I'll never forget.

Anyway, it sure is a great time to be playing with trains.

Hi Matt,

HO and N scale maybe growing I dont know if the hobby is growing. Just look at the demographics not to many kids buying trains to many electronic distractions today. Just my opinion & my demographics argument is not data driven.

As for MTH I'm at a point in my life where I don't carry a grudge especially over a hobby like model or toy trains as life is just to short. There are other manufactures out there to choose from, Coke and Pepsi.

EBT Jim posted:

laming posted

I have on-hand four of the recently released re-tooled Atlas Alco S-2, each with factory DCC/LokSound installed. All are undecorated and all were purchased new-in-the-box for something ....

Did those undecorated S-2's come with the separately-applied detail parts uninstalled? So you can apply them yourself after painting and decaling?

Thanks. Jim

Yes, the undecorated Atlas S-2's come with uninstalled details for ease of painting and decal work.  I prefer that SO much more to the old Proto 2000 method of undecorated units WITH the details already (glued) in place. Remember those??

Bob, Jim, and Laming: Thank you so much for the information. That is exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate it.

The 1990 Atlas RS1 I have is a CNJ (green with yellow stripes) so this new one would match it. I am going to see if I can get a hold of one. I like the Alco S-2 but would prefer to get the RS1.

Bob, I just checked the Atlas website and I saw that they announced HO RS1s on July 1st. There was no CNJ but a Rutland in the same color green and a single yellow stripe. Did you by some chance mistake this locomotive for the CNJ version? Just curious because I couldn't find the CNJ version.

Thanks for the heads up on Bowser. I had no idea that they put out such a quality product.

What about Walthers locomotives? How do they stack up against the competition? They seem to be less costly so that's why I am curious about them. They had a sale recently where I could have got a brand new DCC Ready RS1 for $52. I almost bought it but the choice of road names was very limited.

Thanks again guys.

Matt01 posted:

Seacoast posted

You would think folks would be happy with new companies & products etc in a hobby that seems to be shrinking with time. ......

Nothing scientific, but I think HO is growing.

It could be that perhaps there is more of a lateral shift from other scales to HO.

And, it could be that others are doing what I have done: I have returned after dabbling with some side trips into other scales, being lured back by the amazing quantity and quality of today's HO offerings. Plus, there's no denying that you get more layout per given space by downsizing from one of the larger scales to HO.

So, for me, my return was twofold:

* It has much more product I want that the other scales didn't.

* I gain more layout in my given space as opposed to my previous experiments in O 3 rail and S scale.

I'm an HO scale guy at heart, have been for over 50 years.  I enjoyed my non-HO experimental years, but it's sure nice to have the stuff I want to be available at prices that are acceptable.  The roster I am amassing in HO comprising of available product is simply not possible in S scale or O scale.

Phil:

You're more than welcome on the info. Glad to give back to this forum that gives so much.

I do not (yet) have any of the new release Altas RS-1's. I have two undecorated on reserve.

My RS-1's are the Kato powered ones such as yours. It is hard to improve on Kato performance!  Your Kato RS-1 SHOULD run with the best of them. If/when you want to add DCC/Sound to your 1990 vintage RS-1, I use a fellow that does good work.

As for the CNJ EBT Jim mentioned: He was talking about a CNJ RS-3, not RS-1. Those are found on this Atlas website page:

http://shop.atlasrr.com/c-535-h75.aspx?pagenum=2

I don't have any experience with Walthers engines, though I understand they have retooled their FM switcher and it is a dandy.

I typically hit Youtube and search for the manufacturer and engine type I'm interested in, and usually I get a lot of search returns with reviews, videos of the engine's performance, sound, etc. It's been a help to me.

Andre

Andre, thanks a lot. My mistake on the RS.

That's a great idea to check you tube for reviews. I won't forget that.

Yeah, for a 26 year old locomotive it still runs great. The Kato drive is excellent. The funny thing was my favorite engine was an Athearn SP GP9. I just loved the paint scheme. I wish Atlas or Bowser was putting out one of those.

Andre, what kind of track and turnouts do you use?

laming posted:

Matt01 posted:

Seacoast posted

You would think folks would be happy with new companies & products etc in a hobby that seems to be shrinking with time. ......

Nothing scientific, but I think HO is growing.

It could be that perhaps there is more of a lateral shift from other scales to HO.

And, it could be that others are doing what I have done: I have returned after dabbling with some side trips into other scales, being lured back by the amazing quantity and quality of today's HO offerings. Plus, there's no denying that you get more layout per given space by downsizing from one of the larger scales to HO.

So, for me, my return was twofold:

* It has much more product I want that the other scales didn't.

* I gain more layout in my given space as opposed to my previous experiments in O 3 rail and S scale.

I'm an HO scale guy at heart, have been for over 50 years.  I enjoyed my non-HO experimental years, but it's sure nice to have the stuff I want to be available at prices that are acceptable.  The roster I am amassing in HO comprising of available product is simply not possible in S scale or O scale.

 

Yes, my major complaint with O is the real estate those large curves eat up. I like S and its not all that space consuming but the lack of S product seems to always be an issue.

HO has a huge selection as does N scale these days . The reliably of the smaller scales has improved vastly from say 30 years ago. The DCC standard of HO and N is something I wish 3 rail O would have adopted.